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Palestinian State?
President Bush said this week that a Palestinian State has always been part of U.S. Middle East policy. First, I don't think that is true. Second, I think that this is what the Sept. 11th terrorists want and they should not be rewarded for it.
My views are as follows:
- The Palestinian objective is the destruction of Israel. All negotiations are to further to that ultimate objective.
- Israel is a tiny speck of land compared to the territories held by the Arab countries. If the oil-rich Arab countries want to build a Palestinian homeland they can build one on the vast vacant lands they already control.
- Isn't there already a Palestinian homeland? It's called Jordan.
- Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and the only real friend the U.S. has there. We give $1.3B per year to Egypt but the people in the street smiled when the WTC fell.
- The U.S. should not negotiate with people that support suicide bombers - whether they bomb office U.S. office buildings or Israeli pizza parlors.
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Preachin' to the choir 
The real challenge is getting the Arabs to see it this way. 
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I'll take two... CPU's
Bush said this week that a Palestinian State has always been part of U.S. Middle East policy. First, I don't think that is true.
I would like to know what info you have that dispropves Bush's statement.
WINDOWS 2000....Need I say more!
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Before there was an Israel...
in its latest post-1948 configuration, there was a country called Palestine.
Palestine was split up, 23% going to Israel, 77% became what is now known as Jordan.
Whether that was right or wrong is irrelevant. Anyone who owned land in what is now Israel and is still living is very old. If they get back what they lost they won't have it for long.
The Palestinians could just move into Jordan, which is just Palestine with a new name, calm down, shut up, and start to build a life.
Palestinians don't want a homeland. They want the Jews out of the middle east. You can't always have what you want.
Addendum: Don't forget Turkey. Only "democratic" ( actually a Republic ) Moslem country. Has the most freedom, in the Moslem world. Economically better off than most of the rest. They prefer to think that Turkey is European, rather than Middle Eastern. I think they straddle both regions.
Last edited by Goldwingnut; 10-07-2001 at 12:20 PM.
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Senior Member
?
The above statements are disgusting, biased and very ill informed.
It is highly surprising to see such comments coming from people who are supposed to be educated.
If I didn't know you a little better I would think you to be spreading evil and ignoring history on purpose in the hopes of increasing conflicts and war.
I would expect such comments only from politicians who place their interests before humanity, ethics, morals and justice.
Such views are very worrying.
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All the way club_med... ill informed, coudn't say it any better ...
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How close does this represent your ideas of the conflict in the Middle East? Just trying to understand all sides.
http://encarta.msn.com/find/concise....008&sid=33#s33
edit:
http://encarta.msn.com/find/Concise....61558705&cid=3
First link: History of Israel
Second link: History of Palestine
Last edited by daveleau; 10-07-2001 at 02:30 PM.
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Senior Member
I won't make the mistake of investing too much time into political threads on Sysopt because its never productive and most often has ended in exchange of insults.
Since I believe in freedom, democracy, equality, peace and justice I believe the Palestinians have as much a right to modern day Israel as the Israelis.
This is all I have to say to this subject.
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I'll take two... CPU's
It's funny watching Arabs flail over the Ireali state. The Palestine state was never denied...they just did not like that part of it was rightfully belonging to jews as stated from the earliest time recorded.
The real issue is that the muslims think allah went to heaven from the same place the jews think jesus did...and that is the land they fight over.
Of course, everyone discounts the fact that Jerusalem is not presently located where it historically should be...that being because the Romans, when ruling the area, destroyed the old city and created a new city in a different physical location because they did not want any of the christian physical evidence to exist.
Why, oh why, dare I ask, do none of the people, who frequent sysopt, who deem themselves "expert" on the subject, not seem to be cognizant of these facts?
My opinion is that if the muslims just simply realized this fact...they would not have to fight over the same temple. Life would be easy...but no...that is not the way of the ignorant who fight and die, to proove their right, by violance...instead of learnig the truth.
It is because of that...I think the region is doomed. The muslims seem to want to blame the US prosperity for their own misfortunes...but that does not surprise me after the stupid reasoning they use for killing each other in that region of the world.
It seems the only happy muslims and jews are the ones who immigrated to the US or other free countries. Why? because they are actually free and able to practice their religions without fear of persecution...
How ironic, the land they hate, is the only land they can be happy in 
Last edited by BBA; 10-07-2001 at 05:00 PM.
WINDOWS 2000....Need I say more!
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The Roman's didn't move Jerusalem since the Wailing Wall is the last remaining wall of the Great Temple and it is still there.
The Jews are happy who live in Israel.
For those that think that the Palestinians have a right to the land then they should get it back when the U.S. gives its land back to the Indians.
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MTATech: The romans did tear down Jerusalem, except for the Wailing Wall. Plowed salt into the soil for a 50 mile radius. Read "The Jerusalem Wars", by Flavius Josephus. Rousing tale.
In Re that Indian remark...
Biggest guy in town is a Navajo. About 6'5, 350. Mellow dude 364 days a year. Just don't mention Columbus on Columbus day, because it makes the big guy very twitchy.
When Indians get cranky about white folks, we just point out that brought them football, pickup trucks, rodeo & beer. They forgive us when we point that out.
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lol, goldwingnut
I just read an article recently about the Indians in Denver trying to get Columbus day abolished. I never knew there was any animosity that is still harbored that was that strong.
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Goldwingnut, the point I was responding to was the claim "that Jerusalem is not presently located where it historically should be". The fact that the Wailing Wall is evidence that contradicts that statement.
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Member
I was very tempted to sit this one out, but...
One point I need to point out is that when you speak of "the Arabs", "Muslims", "The Middle East", first of all none of these three terms are interchangeable. People seem to use them this way. If you want to make a point, please be specific.
For example, we do not need to convince "the Arabs" of anything. We should try to have a positive impact on anyone who will genuinely attempt to improve themselves, and hence their world. This includes members of all nations, ethnicities, religions, etc. Ignorance is our enemy and it exists everywhere, not just in the Middle East.
IMHO the people who cheered at a game in Atlanta about the bombing of Afghanistan are no better than people dancing in the streets of Palestine on the 11th/12th. Though sometimes war is inevitable, it is NEVER something to be happy about. When will we break the cycle?
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Senior Member
Hey daveleau your inbox seems to be full, can't send any PM's to you currently.
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