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Thread: Understanding the New Threat

  1. #16
    Member AdamST's Avatar
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    Bush doesnt seem to understand there is a diffrence between dictatorship and islam and terrorist. The USA is friends with MANY ruthless dictators but only goes after the Islamic ones. The USA is becoming worse then those it fights.

    Also the USA under Bush is a radical Christian state. And Bush's congress (yes Bush's) does more harm to the world then any terrorist ever has and ever will. Blinded by the light me thinks.

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member Vampiel's Avatar
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    since when is there logic behind religious fundamentalism, maybe 1 in 100 german soldiers was a nazi, EVERY al quieda terrorist is a a fanatic, prepared to blow him/herself up to kill us, which therefore makes them far more dangerous as individuals
    So you are implying that islamic theoligy is more dangerous than the Nazi theoligy?

    Not bombers or invasion forces, they are here already, and if you take any action against them you will just add to the ranks of the participents from the sidelines, how many muslims work in the defence industry in the US, UK.
    Sorry, the ideal of fighting terrorism does not defeat terrorism is mute.


    Bush doesnt seem to understand there is a diffrence between dictatorship and islam and terrorist.
    You ignore the connection between terrorists and Saddam. Saddam was a terrorist, to deny this is to deny the problem.

    Our primary but by no means only justification for invading Iraq was the ongoing, continuing refusal of Saddam Hussein to allow the weapons inspectors to perform their duties unmolested, which was a condition of the terms of peace of the first Gulf War. Whether he actually had the weapons is technically immaterial; the fact is that he refused to allow inspections, and this refusal was one of the grounds for war, and the one most often cited. It was, however, not the only reason.

    Other justifications that are less often cited but equally valid were Saddam’s harboring and on-going support of terrorist groups. While an Iraqi link to al Qaeda is easily proven by pointing out the fact al Qaeda bomb-builder Abdul Rahman Yasin fled to Baghdad after the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, Saddam supported a number of other terrorist groups, including Abu Nidal Organization, Ansar al-Islam (closely tied to al Qaeda), Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization, Palestine Liberation Front, and Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-Special Command.

  3. #18
    Ultimate Member cbh's Avatar
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    In my perspective, I think the Nazis and the Islamic fanatics are totally different.

    The Nazis were fighting to provide more 'living space' for the 'superior race' (Germans) and establishing a new political belief that will revolutionize the world. Those warmongers wanted to use warfare to gain control of Europe and northern Africa. It's a conflict between powerful nations and weak ones. It's also a conflict that involves regular armies clashing all over the place. A total war!

    The Islamic fanatics are fighting for a radical religious belief that is not part of Islam. These 'brainwashed' people are been taught to hate Westerners and believe in radical Islamic virtues. They believe that the Islamic world is been invaded by infidels so they need to oust all of them with force. The conflict is not even a battle between two nations at all. This conflict is between regular armies and religious militias.

    Give a man a fish
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    Give a man a fishing rod
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  4. #19
    Ultimate Member Vampiel's Avatar
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    The Islamic fanatics are fighting for a radical religious belief that is not part of Islam.
    This is were you are wrong.

    There are two main glyphs in which Muslims abide by.

    1. The peacefull transfer to every human into Islam and will only fight in self defense.

    2. The hostile takover to convert everyone to Islam.

    Either glyph ends up with the world converted to Islam, ask anyone who knows anything about Islamic beliefs.

    The second one is what needs to be irraditcated.

  5. #20
    Senior Member FrnchDp's Avatar
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    interesting.. I've had more christians and catholics trying to convert me to their religion than my Muslim friends.. hmm

    it seems to me that all three "main" religions have this need to convert the human race to their beliefs.. afterall, the crusades weren't really a family camping trip either..
    "Why is it drug addicts and computer aficionados are both called users?" - C. Stoll

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member cbh's Avatar
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    Well! It'll be hard to eradicate the second point as many clerics will not acknowledge the 'mistake' so easily.
    Give a man a fish
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  7. #22
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    vampiel, the threat is not from a different country, but a reactionary religious belief that is in our midst, the 9/11 hijackers were in the US when they perpetrated the attacks on your country, you taught them to fly remember, the terrorists who blew up the train in Spain were living there, how many terrorists have been arrested in the UK, with plans to carry out all types of attrocities, these people are in our midst. you know everything, how do we stop it? Kill or intern all muslims, I dont think you stand a chance, diplomacy and seeing both sides will help most at the moment.

  8. #23
    Ultimate Member Vampiel's Avatar
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    Originally posted by FrnchDp
    interesting.. I've had more christians and catholics trying to convert me to their religion than my Muslim friends.. hmm

    it seems to me that all three "main" religions have this need to convert the human race to their beliefs.. afterall, the crusades weren't really a family camping trip either..
    When was the last christian willing to kill you if you did not convert?

  9. #24
    Ultimate Member Vampiel's Avatar
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    Originally posted by cbh
    Well! It'll be hard to eradicate the second point as many clerics will not acknowledge the 'mistake' so easily.
    Exactly my point. I never said it would be easy, in fact I said it would be difficult.

  10. #25
    Ultimate Member Vampiel's Avatar
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    Originally posted by werz
    vampiel, the threat is not from a different country, but a reactionary religious belief that is in our midst, the 9/11 hijackers were in the US when they perpetrated the attacks on your country, you taught them to fly remember, the terrorists who blew up the train in Spain were living there, how many terrorists have been arrested in the UK, with plans to carry out all types of attrocities, these people are in our midst. you know everything, how do we stop it? Kill or intern all muslims, I dont think you stand a chance, diplomacy and seeing both sides will help most at the moment.
    We dont stand a chance? I beg to differ. Rip out this idealoligy from the textbooks into a more peacefull translation is the only option.

  11. #26
    Ultimate Member Vampiel's Avatar
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    Now what does this demonstrate?

    What makes Turkey unique in the Muslim world?

  12. #27
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    the koran is written in arabic to be read in arabic, not translated, the clerics spread the extreme violence, and young brit, US and Aussie muslims are all to ready to kill for god, how do we stop them? How do we catch them.
    your percentages are meaningless, will any potential terrorist admit to supporting bin liner
    Last edited by werz; 08-21-2004 at 09:37 AM.

  13. #28
    Ultimate Member Vampiel's Avatar
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    Originally posted by werz
    your percentages are meaningless, will any potential terrorist admit to supporting bin liner
    No they are not. Apparently many potential terrorists will admit gladly to supporting bin laden, just look at the percentages.

    Again the percentage is much lower in Turkey.

    So what does this demonstrate?

  14. #29
    Ultimate Member Strawbs's Avatar
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    The statistics (as they are posted here) don't show the religious make-up of those questioned, they only show that in most arabic countries the population is not under pressure to deny their true feelings! They don't mean anything in regards to the western countries (if you lived under Saddam's rule you wouldn't shout your mouth off about how much you hated him).

    Turkey has a long historical association with the British and the general populus may or may not feel pressured into making false statements.

  15. #30
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    The last two-hundred years has been characterised by the dominance of a single colonial power. In the 1800's it was the territorial British Empire, in the 1900's the economic and military empire of the US, and in the next 100 years it will be the spiritual and ideological empire of Islam.

    For the average Joe the main concern is over Islamic militncy, and quite rightly so, any form of militancy is a cause for concern.

    However at a higher level, the thing feared by those in the halls of power is not your Islamic terrorist, but Islam itself and its part in America's "colonial decline" if you will. Islam is a huge threat to American power, big business etc etc. because of its similarities with American culture, both are predominantly conservatice (to the point of ridiculousness), well financed and driven by subservience to religious rhetoric. Indeed, it's bizarre to think of Islam and America as opposed to one another, as on paper they culturally mirror each other so well.

    The problem America has with Islam is that it can't "kill" it through state sponsored murder, torture and terror as it used 50 years ago in the battle against Communism, simply because its so hard to define who the enemy is. Wheras in the past Communism was tied distinctly to individual nation states, Islam is a worldwide phenomena. Even worse still you cant identify individual Muslims, you can be Asian, Black, White Oriental, Male, Female, Fat, Thin and be a Muslim. Indeed, even if the US succeeds in killing off Islamic militancy, with Islam as the fastest growing religion on the planet whose appeal is global and multifaceted, unless Islamic teachings fall off the face of the planet, its a metter of when, not if Islam will become the dominant culture.

    Hence we're not seeing a war on terrorism, but an altogether higher "war", that between the dwindling Christian West and the ever expaning Global Islam. Indeed, in more secular western environments such as Britain, there seems ot be a general acceptance and integration of the Muslim faith, while in the Christian dominated States there is (largely speaking) ignorance and panic.

    The thing America has to watch out for is the act of "tying everyone with the same brush" as they appear to be doing, presenting what is a faith (relaively) centred around the idea of peace (when compared to Christianity at least - which in its literal sense is one of the most hateful and ignorant ideologies ever to exist) as a recipie of evil. As such, you risk turning a minority (and it is a minority...for the tiem being) of fanatics and nutters, into a majority, by alienating and persecuting every Muslim in the world.

    Personally, i dont care much for the idea of Islam taking over the world, given my largely secular outlook and view that organised religion has done nothig but hamper the development of the human-race. By the same token, ive never been comfortable with the idea of America as the "leader of the free-world", again the religious leanings of the country as well as its habits for advocating genocide and murder if it suits, have always made me less than comfortable.

    One thing is certain however, the make-up of the world is changing, "The War on Terror" is a justifiable action in light of 9/11, however the risk is that we are misconducting or will misconduct this "War on Islamic Terror" so that it ends up as an all-out "War on Islam", and then it's "Good Night Vienna!" for all of us, because while you can kill a man, you cant kill what he believes in.

    The worrying thing is that the political rhetoric and military actions coming out of the Whitehouse and the general state of genuinely justified panic among the citizens of the Western world, it sounds more like a "War on Islam" by the day, if you think the West can win such a war, then i'm afraid you might be a little bit deluded

    --Jakk
    Last edited by Bigjakkstaffa; 08-21-2004 at 01:29 PM.

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