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Thread: What If You Can Go Back To Ancient Times?

  1. #46
    Complete & Utter Member j.m@talk's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Dracas
    Afterall, its Sysopt "System Optimization" not "Idle Chatter"
    Umm

  2. #47
    Senior Member Dracas's Avatar
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    I ain't kissin' nothin JM

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  3. #48
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    Survivors a book, not that horrible crappy reality TV stuff

    Actually, one could argue that Western society at this point in history is extremely tolerant of non-conformists. Imagine how an avid practitioner of piercing and heavy tattooing would be treated, say, 50 years ago.
    An interestign point, but my argument to it would be that today, such practices as tatooing and the whole S+M, Goth scene, have become a whole extension of mainstream culture and what was once alternative culture is now just as heavily manipulated and promoted as a fashionable and desirable as other mainstream areas. One example of this for me personally is heavy metal music. I listen to the odd bits here and there and when i did it was classed as alternative and extreme, today however its a completely mainstream fashion fueled thing, look at the state of bands such as Linkin Park who promote themselves as alternative when in fact they are watered down pop, they cant compare to the true days of Metal with the early Metallica, heck its become such a dilluted and popularity driven thing even the Metallica of today cant compete with the original work .

    Also back to tatto's, i have to say, where i live is a very 'working man's club' place, hard people in (by and large) hard circumstances, and i would say 3 out of every four males have a tatoo of some sort, wether it be a small one, or an armful of the darn things, admittedly most of the older generations that have them were formerly oil riggers, in the navy or other occupations in which tattoos are commonplace, but amongs the younder generations its become another way of conforming to whats hot in the world of fashion. As Stefan put it the other day, your more unique and alternative nowadays if you dont have a tatoo.


    I don't know about scared and frightened.
    Yeah i was thinking about the way id worded that at work today and i dont think thats an entirely correct thign for me to say. I think the west as a single entity is probably, as you put it, more aware and alert, but a large group of the individual constituents of these cultures (ie Joe Bloggs in the street) are beggining to feel a little un-nerved and uneasy in a way that five years ago they would not . Five years ago, in the UK, bar the IRA, whose activities compared to many groups can be classed as rare and of a limited scale, were the only real cause for concern in the UK and even then the troubles were probably at a low. Today however theres hardly a week goes by that there isnt a report of such and such fundamentalists based in London etc etc, and IMO this is going to lead to a heightened sense of fear amongst the masses, though probably not to the extent it is physically noticable. I for one admit that today my concerns over terrorist activities are almost tenfold what they were even three years ago.

    As for the 'assimilation' process, it is in no way the sole preseve of the west, it is what, naturally, the largest, most powerful culture of any given period of history does. Look at the Roman empire for example, that assimilated Britain into much of its culture in a similar fashion to which Japan developed its 'western', modernised feel following WWII. Its not a poke at the west saying it assimilates other cultures, its just a natural thing for the biggest cultural force at any given period of time to do, always has been and i dare say always will be, even if the 'western world' were to grind to a halt tomorrow.

    The West isnt a bad place to live at all, hell its a pretty **** excellent place to live. Like any place it has its flawes and its probably not as liberal and free as the PR and 'American Dream' (i personally think that phrase should be the 'Western Dream') would have you think, but its one hell of a step up from the cirumstances throughout most of the world. The only real problem i have with westernisation is that everything in westernised nations seems to be an identikit of everywhere else in the western world, wether it be fast food chains, fashion or political parties. This is what i feel is this 'assimilation process', i cant help but feel that somwhere the unique cultural properties of individual nations are being lost to rows upon rows of McDonald's restraunts. However this isnt always the case, and the biggest example is probably Japan and other oriental nations.

    Japan is probably one of the most highly modernised and highly westernised (lets face it westernised and modernised are pretty much the same things today) societies yet at the same time it retains its own unique sense of identity by deviating from some of the norms and values of American or British life and in such a way makes itself a culturally rich and diverse yet still esentially westernised nation, which IMO is great. (Im a big fan of Japan and Hong Kong btw, must visit some day). However when i look at the say the UK (or any advanced european nation) and the US, i cant help but think, that by and large they are probably 'too' similar, and being from the UK there is an apparent decline in much of the traditional occupations, past times, lifestyles etc that made the UK a unique place

    So, in conclusion, Western culture is, in many respects, great, even if it is possibly leading to a globe of almost 'clone' nations. However western culture cant be blamed for that as it seems to be a natural process for all dominant cultures throughout history, the only reason for labelling Western Culture in the initial post as opposed to say The Roman Empire or more recently The British Empire, is because its the easiest for the majority of us to relate to

    --Jakk
    Last edited by Bigjakkstaffa; 08-23-2003 at 02:23 PM.

  4. #49
    Ultimate Member Ol'Tunzafun's Avatar
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    What If You Can Go Back To Ancient Times?
    I do go back to ancient times.


  5. #50
    Member rusty4x4's Avatar
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    I think we're in general agreement...

    An interestign point, but my argument to it would be that today, such practices as tatooing and the whole S+M, Goth scene, have become a whole extension of mainstream culture and what was once alternative culture is now just as heavily manipulated and promoted as a fashionable and desirable as other mainstream areas.
    I blame it all on marketing! The move to capture the youth market, which is always looking for the next big thing, is really what led to the "mainstreaming" of much of these otherwise "alternative" fashions.
    One example of this for me personally is heavy metal music. I listen to the odd bits here and there and when i did it was classed as alternative and extreme, today however its a completely mainstream fashion fueled thing...
    I agree. I too have run the spectrum of music likes and dislikes. But lately I've decided on the proper perspective for music. At its most fundamental level, it is entertainment. At its most sublime, it is inspiration. But that's it. Looking back, I think this is why I never got into the fan mentality - of anything - sports. music, etc.
    As Stefan put it the other day, your more unique and alternative nowadays if you dont have a tatoo.
    Funny that. I dreamed last night that I got a tattoo - an advert for AMD! But all my machines so far are Intels. Must be a Freudian thing.
    ...I for one admit that today my concerns over terrorist activities are almost tenfold what they were even three years ago.
    I'm not one to put total faith in government assurances. But I do know that people in government are doing what they can to assure another massacre does not happen. That's not to say it won't happen, but like I said, this is war after all, and anything can happen. The key is not to be paralyzed by fear. I think that we're again at the point in history when there's a need for Churchills and Roosevelts. I have to say, I was very impressed by your PM, whom I understand is under some political heat at home. Similarly, people bad-mouth GWB all the time. It's easy to sit in the peanut gallery and throw rocks, which is what a lot of their critics do. But I have to hand it to both of them: it takes guts to take difficult positions, and make difficult decisions.
    Its not a poke at the west saying it assimilates other cultures, its just a natural thing for the biggest cultural force at any given period of time to do, always has been and i dare say always will be, even if the 'western world' were to grind to a halt tomorrow."
    I don't know if you've ever seen a WWI propaganda poster or cartoon of the Kaiser as a pickelhaubed gorilla wielding a club labeled 'Kultur.' These days, it's not a gorilla, it's a smiling salesman offering up the latest gadgetry, music, whatever. Hence, the force of American Hegemony is not just its overwhelming firepower, but the effectiveness of its sales forces!
    The only real problem i have with westernisation is that everything in westernised nations seems to be an identikit of everywhere else in the western world, wether it be fast food chains, fashion...
    It's a case of giving people what they want: predictable, consistent, and affordable. Such is the demise of local diversity. On the plus side, if you find yourself in Japan, and are really in need of something more substantial than the usual small portion of rice and grilled eel, you have better than reasonable assurance that a Big Mac in Tokyo will be just as good as the one from East Podunk, USA.
    However this isnt always the case, and the biggest example is probably Japan and other oriental nations."
    It is a good thing that the Japanese have been able to hang on to as much as they have. I have been to Japan for a stopover, and I have to warn you, Tokyo is pretty congested, noisy, polluted, and BRIGHT! And one of my best friends who is from Hiroshima, says that it's not the same country he left over 30 years ago. If you can, try to stick to the more rural prefectures.
    ...and the US, i cant help but think, that by and large they are probably 'too' similar, and being from the UK there is an apparent decline in much of the traditional occupations, past times, lifestyles etc that made the UK a unique place...
    Even now the US is changing. As an example, we were once a manufacturing giant, and now a great deal is outsourced, to China in particular. And it will always change. It is the inevitability of the market (like I said: Marketing!).
    So, in conclusion, Western culture is, in many respects, great, even if it is possibly leading to a globe of almost 'clone' nations..."
    Amen. And if there's one thing that can be counted on with human nature is that some guy will want what the other guy has. So the cloning tendency will continue. Note that I call it a tendency - with the constant change, can true national cloning ever be attained? I don't think so. Because at the local level (i.e., the rural prefecture), there will always be something that makes that place unique, and it will be something that time (or marketing) cannot fully erase.
    Last edited by rusty4x4; 08-23-2003 at 09:44 PM.

  6. #51
    Ultimate Member herosrest's Avatar
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    Kenneth Paul Meriam arrived in Australia on the first Queen Mary voyage in early 42 and was sent home suffering malaria in early 45. He was a Master Sergeant shop foreman and served with the 49th Service Squadron in Australia, New Guinea and the Philippines. This unit followed the combat squadrons around the theatre, fixing airplanes that the ground crews couldn't. Meriam worked on B-17Es, B17Fs, B-24Ds, P-38F and P-38Gs, P39s and P-400s, B-25Cs and B-25Ds, and B-26s.

    Dec 6-7!! Last nite after dinner, we were all outside talking. A red alert was on, but we figured it to be the usual semi-false alarm. We all saw some 12 to 15 twin engine bombers approaching from the south. No ack-ack so spec had it amongst a few that they were Navy but most knew them for Nips. We scattered for helmets and slit trenches, then ack-ack opened up and they knocked a couple down. Their bombs did damage to a gas or oil dump. I feel that chill of horror in my stomach of dread everytime I think if it. All that has gone before is nothing to what happened a few minutes after the bombers left. Coming in very low at dusk were Nip transports, right square over our area. Ack-ack went nuts, so did we when an unforgetable sight took place. Parachutists, one after another, tumbled out, right over head and to the north for a distance of a half mile. About 18 transports in three waves, disgorged the Nips. A wild scramble for rifles and ammo after the yell "Parachutists" and I mean wild. Everyone admitted soon after, that chill of terror that griped them. The guys, in spite of it, got ready quick enough to blaze away as the Nips descended. Two were killed in our area, several others just beyond.

    No rain but it was muddy, we popped into the slit trench to begin an all nite vigil that ended at dawn. We fully expected wave after wave to follow thinking the first were just a preparation party, especially since they took over an unfinished strip. Thank God it didn't turn out that way. Now I truly know the meaning of the saying - "There are no atheists in a foxhole." A lot of wild spasmodic firing all nite, everywhere. We stuck in our trench and under the floor, taking turns to relieve the aches in muscles. No Nips came to our clearing, we found out the next morning that they'd captured the "strip" and nine ack-ack positions. This was not the only landing, two others a short distance away but they've been kept apart.

    Even as I sit here, the third morning after, there's occasional machine gun and rifle fire, still mopping up and driving them to the hills. Morning of the 7th was again something for me. Everyone tired, jittery, and hungry. Lt Hanson asked for 21 men volunteers to go into our tent area to back up the infantry in case the Japs infiltrated thru. Still a lot of firing but nearly all from outfits that were "trigger happy", a bunch of damned fools. To date, one outfit has three dead, twenty wounded - by Yanks! Our bunch darned good.

    I sure learned to hit the ground regardless of what was under me. The patrol didn't last long, the infantry and engineers pushed the Nips across the strip - into the goods, so our job, for then, was done. Just before the patrol, we were in a semi-formation, getting instructions. We saw a Zero wheel overhead, four P-40's below. The P-40's suddenly saw the Zero, pushed on all "coal", streaked up and after the Zero just as it started a dive to strafe the road, 25 yards away. The Zero cut loose once at the road, the lead P-40 gaining all the time, tracers streaking towards the Zero, the Zero fishtailing, the tracers closer, finally a hit, a little smoke, more hits and the Zero dived into the ground - a black column of smoke all there was left of the Nip.

    http://www.aerothentic.com/PilotWrit...m_49serSqn.htm

  7. #52
    Ultimate Member cbh's Avatar
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    If someone detonates a nuclear bomb in ancient Rome, what will happen to the Roman Empire? If someone detonates a toxin bomb in ancient China, what will happen to humanity? With so many terrorists attacking innocent people around the world, I think a change in history will definitely change our future and present completely.

    Now terrorism is not a limited thing! If someone is brilliant and crazy enough to build a time machine, the terrorists can use it to assassinate a lot of key personnel in the past. If you hate the West so much, you can drop a nuclear bomb in ancient Rome. Then Europe will be barbaric and uncivilized.

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  8. #53
    Ultimate Member herosrest's Avatar
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    erm... Europe is barbaric and unciviloised.

    Maybe we should tell the people who run the place.

  9. #54
    Senior Member Dracas's Avatar
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    Time travels pretty much 'logically impossible'.

    Say you go back in time. Wham.

    You step on a bug, destroy a few cars, or blow up a small city, it alters the course of (at a minimum) 5000 people (trust me, even the smallest thing can change the course of your day/life/death), so lets just say you kill someone.

    now you've got a problem, that person you killed was likely related to the person who created the time machine. Suddenly, time would have to change, that person (in the future) would have fed genes to the person who created the time machine, and he might not be (say) good at math, suddenly - because of that, there is no time machine, which means you never went back in time, which means you never killed his ancestor, and then you never really did anything and on top of it - now you don't remember.

    Remember kids, if you've travelled back in time, you're unlikely to remember it
    "Save us Booze, show us the way!"

  10. #55
    Ultimate Member cbh's Avatar
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    But it can happen in the near future because science is getting more advanced nowadays. Someone will use that technology to create a time machine and go back in time. Terrorists are radical and crazy people so they will do anything to accomplish their missions.

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  11. #56
    Ultimate Member cbh's Avatar
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    If time travel is basically impossible, then we will safe. But if someone really manages to create a time machine, then we're in deep trouble. Look at the cloning process! A few decades ago, many people think that cloning is a joke. Now we're afraid that human cloning will change the future of Mankind. I can tell you that humanity is not ready for a BIG change yet.

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  12. #57
    Complete & Utter Member j.m@talk's Avatar
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    Originally posted by cbh
    Now we're afraid that human cloning will change the future of Mankind.
    Trust me your pretty safe

  13. #58
    Registered User mireland's Avatar
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    Originally posted by j.m@talk21.com


    Trust me your pretty safe

  14. #59
    Senior Member Tony2005's Avatar
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    i've got my very own time machine!

    only goes forward tho a few hours at a time (called sleep )

  15. #60
    Ultimate Member cbh's Avatar
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    Yours is called cryogenic process.

    Give a man a fish
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    Give a man a fishing rod
    It will feed him forever

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