Do you do the right thing, even if it's for the wrong reasons?

[tking]

I posted an article about the Iraq issue:

http://www.con.ca/issues/8/4/1303?id=1080,1048778455

The fact that Canada chose to stay out of the conflict has caused a great deal of argument north of the border.

Do you Yanks care that we aren't there?

My logic in writing what I wrote was simply that if you have the opportunity to do the right thing (even if it is for the wrong reasons), then shouldn't you do it?

Hussein is a dog that needs to be put down, but the reasons the US went there (fictional WOMD and the threat they theoretically contain, the need to remove a regime that doesn't support its foreign policies etc) aren't the most pure... but Hussein is still a lunatic the world would be better without...

Last week I was working in downtown Toronto installing a network when we all stopped to watch a 10,000+ people peace protest go by in the streets below. The guy I was working with said, "where were all these people protesting when Hussein was killing his own people by the tens of thousands? The US will kill less Iraqis in this war than Saddam has in the past ten years."

[rubdfsh2?]

I think most of the U.S. understands to a point. Canada cannot contribute as much as the U.K. or Australia has.


"In a speech to a business breakfast and in later comments to journalists, Cellucci said the Canadian position showed that Prime Minister Jean Chretien's government was less concerned about security threats than the United States.

"They support the global war on terror, but they're not supporting us fully," Cellucci said.

Raising his voice during the speech, he said that if Canada faced a security threat, the United States would respond immediately.

"There would be no debate. There would be no hesitation. We would be there for Canada," Cellucci said. "That is why so many in the United States are disappointed and upset that Canada is not there for us now."



Cellucci's comments

[Baby Arm]

Doing the right thing for dubious reasons is fine by me. Saddam needs to go, and I would hope most people would agree with that. I think it may be a little early to call the weapons of mass distruction 'fictional'. What about the thousands of Iraqi chemical suits they are finding or the prisioners they take who are carrying Cipro? Seems a wee bit suspicious to me. Even if they can't find any womd's, the way he does business is enough to justify his removal.

As far as Canada not helping out, well so what. I think we in the US are starting to get used to our 'friends' only being around when it's convenient or there's money to be made. Naturally we'll still be the first place they run to when they need help or a handout, and sadly I doubt if we'll hold a grudge. I understand France is already worried about not getting enough contracts when the rebuild of Iraq starts. I hope they don't get a dime's worth of work. With our economy in the tank, those contracts should go to American companies first.

As for the protesters, hope they have fun. I was in the elevator with a guy wondering if there would be a protest in Dallas. Said he thought it would be 'cool' to go, even though he's really not sure if he's against the war. Wonder how many others are out there protesting for the novelty of it.

Anyway you Canadians are still ok in my book. Stevie Nash is doing a great job at point for the Mavericks, so he'll keep you guys off my $h*t list for now

[BadBadNeil]

"where were all these people protesting when Hussein was killing his own people by the tens of thousands? The US will kill less Iraqis in this war than Saddam has in the past ten years."


that is the point i always try to make. People only protest when the US does something they don't like. They dont protest the wars in Africa killing millions, or the N. Koreans building nuclear power, or the millions of Iraqis slaughtered by their own leader, the thousands of deaths each day by dictators and rulers who oppress their people.

It really ticks me off that this happens and people protesting for peace when in fact if this war didn't happen millions of people would die by Saddam's hand.

Personally I dont care what Canada does or the rest of the world for that matter. Canada and the rest of the world has the right to say and do what they want and we have the right to ignore them.

[NJEnviroguy]

I think at first I was a little po'ed at Canada, especially after I heard that whole booing during the National Anthem deal last week (or two). But, I think every country has its reasons for not joining up. I just don't appreciate, as an American, have other people stick their noses up after the fact. I'm with Baby Arm, they're OK with me.

And I guess you can't judge a whole country by the few. That would be hypocritical of the US. The best you can do is single those people out and go after them. Hmm, that sounds familiar. And I wonder if that is going on right now?

[DocEvi1]

Originally posted by NJEnviroguy
I think at first I was a little po'ed at Canada, especially after I heard that whole booing during the National Anthem deal last week (or two). But, I think every country has its reasons for not joining up. I just don't appreciate, as an American, have other people stick their noses up after the fact. I'm with Baby Arm, they're OK with me.

And I guess you can't judge a whole country by the few. That would be hypocritical of the US. The best you can do is single those people out and go after them. Hmm, that sounds familiar. And I wonder if that is going on right now?

Well said. At the beginning I remember it been reported someone in the Bush administration saying that they didn't need the UN or the brits... I think this is a US only kind of afair which other countries have been let in on.

Stefan

[rubdfsh2?]

Seems that the U.S. and the Brits are partners in crime in whatever comes up. Thats cool with me and those I work with.

Granted we exchange taunts every once in awhile, but the Brits, Canadians and Aussies are kewl with me.

Funny. During Allied Force, the U.S. pilots taking off at Aviano AB, Italy were told to climb to avoid anything thrown by the 4,000+ protestors outside the gate. The Canadian pilots would seem to scrape their planes on the C-wire as they cleared the fence, then pull up and hit the afterburners, knocking a multitude of protestors to the ground and sending dirt and dust everywhere.

I went out of my way to buy every Canadian pilot I met a round.

[tking]

The greatest irony of this, with all the *****ing in Canada yea-ing or nay-ing the war, is that we have 3 very modern frigates in the Gulf performing duties as part of our commitment to the war on terrorism.

This means that Canada, even though we've formally declared that we don't support the US coallition, has more military in the area supporting the US than all but three of your supposed allies (I think only the UK and Australia has more military than us there).

On the radio I heard it said: "Canada's position on this is confusing, but this should clear it up: Canada will not fight in this conflict, but Canadians will."

[NJEnviroguy]

Originally posted by tking

On the radio I heard it said: "Canada's position on this is confusing, but this should clear it up: Canada will not fight in this conflict, but Canadians will."

I like that quote. I am sure you are going to find in every country people willing to back this situation and those that are going to oppose it. I think the biggest shell shock to Americans was when Canada did not "officially" join the coalition forces. For the simple reason, IMO, the US and Canada always seem to be joined at the hip (literally and figuratively) when pursuing ventures because most likely what effects one will effect the other.

I think the Canada issue was more a shock to Americans than the French issue, but people in the US are more likely to vocalize their distaste to the French than to Canadians. Its almost like family; you have a brother or sister not willing to go along with what you want, but you put up with it. One of your friend's sibling does the same thing and you mouth off saying how "disrespectful" and what not. In this case, take the UK as your friend.

[rubdfsh2?]

Like this...

"If the U.S. robs a bank, the Brits will be the wheel man, the Aussies will provide cover and the Canadians will stand on the corner claiming they didn't see anything."

[j.m@talk]

Err............... But you ain't Canadian Timbo!

Still I support your right to discuss this!

Me I'm gonna hide out in Pittsburgh, till its all over!
If its good enough for the Hussain family, its good enough for me!

[BadBadNeil]

Everyone is in on the war against terror so that is a separate issue. Hell even france and germany are part of the war on terror.


the biggest shock to me isnt canadas not joining the coalition (even if they did join they would be like most of the countries anyways and not send any real troops), the biggest shock is when they booed our national anthem.

Sorry but thats uncalled for and pisses me off. Canada lost my money cuz of that, no trip to toronto or niagara falls any more for me. I'll never go to canada again.

[tking]

Originally posted by BadBadNeil
the biggest shock is when they booed our national anthem.

Canadians are the politest people one the planet (next to the Japanese). It's not only ignorant, it's UNCANADIAN to boo a national anthem, but then that's exactly what I was getting at with the anti-extremist edge to the article. The lefties all come pouring out of the woodwork spouting their I'm right and you're wrong attitude only to be met by the righties with their own propaganda. The rest of us are left staring at these shouting matches and seeing things like people booing anthems, and then we wonder just how long it's going to take for these idiots to destroy the world with their paint it simple and fight attitudes.

As my buddy said, "where were all these lefties protesting when Saddam was killing his own people by the tens of thousands, or the millions killed in ethnic conflicts in North Africa or the thousands dead in South East Asia - all killed because of imperialist dictators looking to increase their control.

The *reason* these protests are happening now is because the US is doing it. I say that it is obvious that this is an anti-US protest, not an anti-war protest and they go on a rant about how what the US is doing is worse. How exactly is precision warfare and adherance to the Geneva Convention worse than ethnic clensing? ... oh yeah, it's worse because the US is doing it.

If you're on a moral crusade where the hell where you when someone other than the United States was doing the warring? Where were you when these sleezy little regimes killed unarmed civilians just to satisfy their own hatreds?

Yeah, I think imperialism is a nasty thing, and yeah, the US is an imperialist power (there is no such thing as a non-imperialist power).

Like I said in the article, better Seven Elevens on every corner than homicidal lunatic dictators killing their own people by the thousands.

BTW: you can leave a comment on that site without leaving your name or email. I'm a little disappointed that only the lefties came out to rant...

[Billforce]

GO AHEAD, REMAIN THE COWARDLY DOGS YOU ARE, SEE IF I CARE! NAAANAAA NA NAH NAH, CAN´T even win the Stanley cup.......

HAPPY DOUGHNUTS AND BEER TO ALL!

BEAUTY HEH?

[j.m@talk]

Originally posted by Billforce
GO AHEAD, REMAIN THE COWARDLY DOGS YOU ARE, SEE IF I CARE! NAAANAAA NA NAH NAH, CAN´T even win the Stanley cup.......

HAPPY DOUGHNUTS AND BEER TO ALL!

BEAUTY HEH?

You really think that helps?