Are "Peace-nicks" USEFUL IDIOTS?

[mrt1212]

war should be judged on a case by case basis and always be the last result. is this war neccesary? i dont believe so considering that saddam isnt a threat to the US and hasnt been for the past 12 years under containment. he isnt a threat of attacking anyone else in his region either as he hasnt done so since 1991.

sure hes evil, but until he starts actually doing something that directly threatens other nations i dont think we should be going in there and changing regimes, especially if the end regime is actually worse for the people than the current one which is a possibility.

do i believe in premptive attacks over what might happen? nope, not one bit. let the war come to us and let us respond in kind. its easier to sit back and let threats present themselves and nip them in the bud then go after groups half a planet away. also look at premptive strikes from other countries. If the US was going to attack you wouldnt you like some defence against that and attack first and disrupt a lot of things in that country? i would.

this isnt a fight for freedom rather its a fight to eliminate one bad man for endless bad possibilities resulting.

[strat1]

Originally posted by mrt1212
And you really believe the US government would allow a fundamentlist islamic government to come to power? you really place too much trust in the government [/i]

So my choices are-
Believe my government is doing the right thing
Wait to see if Saddam uses, gives, sells Anthrax on the US or Allies
Wait for Saddam to get nukes and then we are all in trouble

give him as long as it takes. he will die of natural causes by the time hes done disarming.;

That is sad- inhuman and cruel! How many crimes against Humanity does he have to commit, UN sanctions does he have to break- The world has rules and needs rules

so why is it only iraq we look at. and for the record a lot of what saddam has done has been enabled by the US support we gave to him.

If you mean that we help Saddam in the Past, yes and boy did we F-up

replace the Saddam with the USA and you have a fair estimation of how the rest of the world views us. you dont have a relative perspective on

Not sure what you mean, but we are the only county and the UK willing/able to do the right thing

]; thats it, im antiamerican. i love america because it grants me the free speech to speak out against things i dont believe are just and right. what does being american have to do with liking or disliking saddam? i have no control nor authority over him, but i do over the people in my country through my vote.

Cause most Anti-war Protests and not asking Saddam to stop murdering, or to disarm and obey 12 years of sanctions by the UN , just saying that Bush is the Problem, the cowboy!

[strat1]

Originally posted by Bigjakkstaffa
I mean basically that if it wasnt for Blair you would be going it alone,

We are not going it alone- there are at least 15-20 countries that are on our side. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Originally posted by Bigjakkstaffa
because i dont want all of the middle east raining hell down on the UK thanks.--Jakk

You are very right and that is a huge concern—wait until he gets some nukes and then see how worried you should be!
We can either go after the terrorists or wait for them to attack-

[strat1]

Originally posted by mrt1212
[B let threats present themselves and nip them in the bud resulting. [/B]

Tell the 3000 dead people in NY, Washington and PA that. Tell the families that you Dad is dead but we are nipping it in the but- don’t worry we nip back!

Originally posted by mrt1212
do i believe in premptive attacks over what might happen? nope, not one bit.

If reacting to attacks is what you think works best than that is your right, I do not want to lose more Friends and Americans in the next 911 – cause there will be one. Maybe if you knew some people that died it might help you to realize the world is going on around us and is not a free ride.

Thanks for interesting discussion we both have strong beliefs, and I am glad we are able to share them freely.

[ukulele]

BigJack, have you been reading that load of malarky from Karl again? Look where it got Russia and now you want the same for England? Next you'll be saying that Britian would be better off ruled by the Queen, then nobody will have a say about anything but the royal family of which none of them has ever worked a day in their entire lives.

[Strawbs]

The Qeen's not so bad, But with that Prince "Foot-in-mouth" Phillip we have our very own "W".

[ukulele]

Originally posted by Strawbs
The Qeen's not so bad, But with that Prince "Foot-in-mouth" Phillip we have our very own "W".

At least the Queens not dumb enough to bite the hand that feeds her. I realize that the Brits love the pagent of royalty, but they were smart in transfering the power to parliment. A king is just another name for a dictator.

[strat1]

Originally posted by Strawbs
I can't/won't argue about the rest of the post,

Why, cause its takes knowledge to back up your one liner media regurgitated rhetoric?

Originally posted by Strawbs
I steaming cow

ouch you really have some strong beliefs in Politics- thanks for setting me straight!

Originally posted by Strawbs
we don't need anybody creating animosity where there is none!

I hear ya, no thoughtful discussion about what really going on- lets just stick with Cow dong and Media Sound Bites-

Originally posted by Strawbs
gosh darn politicians are everywhere nowadays!

OK, why Politicians never really say what they mean- just dance around the facts and the truth cuase it hurts when it sticks- like Cow dung- hey now I see where you got it from.

[Bigjakkstaffa]

saddam isnt a hero, and neither is bush

As a person on the telly put it the other day put it the other day, both are extremists, and you are being forced to align yourself with one or the other and have no middleground.

I realize that the Brits love the pagent of royalty,

Maybe 25 years ago, they none too popular now what with their spending all our money on whackey baccy and booze

BigJack, have you been reading that load of malarky from Karl again? Look where it got Russia and now you want the same for England?

Communism or at least marxism as a structural thoery is sound, implementation is where it stumbles and always will. In russia it was implemented incorrectly, it had to be relaunched and the decision to plough all the money into weapons was put simply a mistake, plus bear in mind Lenin apparently made an amendment in hsi will explicitly staing Stalin never be allowed power, Stalin promptly had it destroyed and Russia started being none to pleasent a place to be. Communism needs to be implemented at varying levels of standardised allowance and not allow fos sponging off the state at all.. but thats for another day.

--Jakk

[Bigjakkstaffa]

You are very right and that is a huge concern—wait until he gets some nukes and then see how worried you should be!

My concern is not that Saddam has nukes, because ATM he doesnt, when he does i'll start crapping bricks but for nowmuch of what saddam does or doesnt own is simple supposition and varys upon whos propoganda you read. My concern is that by goign to war with him Saddam will brign much of the middle east to arms in a holy war against the west and although we will have a non nuclear capable enemy, it will be so numerous as to be uncontrollable. Is Saddam Husseins head really worth triggering WW3 and having car bombings in NYC, DC, London etc going off several times a week? At this point, the answer is no. by going after one man and his nation you are in turn risking placing the west at war with many nations with many 'soldiers' and the prospects of regular and large scale domestic terrorism, something i think we could all do without.

--Jakk

[strat1]

Originally posted by Bigjakkstaffa
As a person on the telly put it the other day put it the other day, both are extremists, and you are being forced to align yourself with one or the other and have no middleground.

Thanks for the Left wing media Sound bite!
Saddam tortures thousands and uses weapons of Mass destruction on his own people. He orders his own troops to destroy every Man, women and Child in villages. Some how you say both are extremist? Hows that opinion formed - What has bush done so far- we are not at war yet?

Is Saddam Husseins head really worth triggering WW3 and having car bombings in NYC, DC, London etc going off several times a week? At this point, the answer is no. by going after one man and his nation you are in turn risking placing the west at war with many nations with many 'soldiers' and the prospects of regular and large scale domestic terrorism, something i think we could all do without.

If I thought that would happen- I would feel the same way you do! But if that happended we would nuke the entire middle and make it into a theme park!

[Strawbs]

some ppl are so far to the right, their voice can't be heard even just right of centre, all I hear is the sound of **** splattering against the barrier they erected to keep the rest of humanity away. So bye, bye, Mr ...

[Bigjakkstaffa]

What has bush done so far- we are not at war yet?

Well given the fact the world has been 'relatively' trouble free for a decade, within a couple of years Bush has embarked on a campaign agains iraq which until Bush mentioned it, no one really cared about (at least not in europe) and is settign off after N Korea now. The stuff in Afghanistan, that was justified. Bush aint helping himself though in that he's not willing to even listen nevermind take on board arguments against war. He appears to be war mongering out of sheer bloddy mindedness rather than reasoning in that very little diplomatic effort has been made.

we are not at war yet?

Thats through no effort of GWB from what ive seen

But if that happended we would nuke the entire middle and make it into a theme park!

Im sure your allies in Isreal, the UAE etc will be most enthusiastic about that

Thanks for the Left wing media Sound bite!

How you derive left wing from that quote i do not know, from my statments about russia, but i fail too see how that quotation is at all left wing

--Jakk

[strat1]

Originally posted by Strawbs
some ppl are so far to the right, their voice can't be heard even just right of centre, all I hear is the sound of **** splattering against the barrier they erected to keep the rest of humanity away. So bye, bye, Mr ...

Sorry I was asking you to think for yourself and back up what you were saying. You may think I am on the right, but I look at the facts on the right and left-- what do you look at, the TV? you feel what the media tells you too. You are not able to back up anything and that just sucks!

[Bigjakkstaffa]

Sorry I was asking you to think for yourself and back up what you were saying. You may think I am on the right right, but I look at the facts- what do you look at, the TV? you feel what the media tells you too. You are not able to back up anything and that just sucks!

I agree there, you CANNOT judge anything by TV broadcasts, newspaper articles, even history books. As much as we live in a land of freedom of speech, under the surface verything is propoganda or intended to influence unless it is written after an event with the benefit of hindsight, if being a student of history has taught me anything its that... and that Hienrich Himmler was a failed chicken farmer

--Jakk