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Thread: why do schools have reading comp tests?

  1. #16
    Member shark_megabyte's Avatar
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    Re: why do schools have reading comp tests?

    Originally posted by ShawnD1
    yesterday, my english class (grade 12 smart english, not stupid english) did a reading comp test with multiple choice being 4 answers A,B,C,D
    this test has stuff where it will say a short story then it will ask questions like:

    James' anger towards Jane is best shown.....
    A. "stared ungreatfully" on line 23
    B. "he walked past Jane, deliberately bumping her as he passed" line 5
    C. "James stamped his foot on the ground" line 43
    D. "James waved his hands infront of Jane's face" line 82

    this is essentialy what all the questions are like, none of the answers are very clear or all of them are partialy right.
    I went through AP English lit & comp in high school, and I'm an English major about to graduate college. Maybe I can help a little.

    These tests are a process of elimination thing. They're hard to study for, which is why the approach to improving your test score on these is more like taking a small separate class that just covers ideas you need to know, as opposed to reviewing specific reading material. To do well on these, you need some patience, memory of general principles that you've picked up in the last few years, and a solid sense of logic - or just really good logic.

    I'll demonstrate with your example. The answer to this question is not that ambiguous, if you've studied some from a *writing* perspective. You can eliminate C and D, because they don't necessarily show anger. "stared ungratefully" is better than either C or D, but staring is still a relatively passive act. The best answer is B, because intentionally bumping her is an act of outright physical aggression, and there's nothing better for displaying anger than raw hostility in physical contact. If you're writing and you want to make a character's personality clear to the reader, the best way to characterize him is by what he DOES. That's not the only way of course, but it's the way that comes through quickest, loudest, and clearest.

    Originally posted by ShawnD1
    The class average was 51% [...] why do we even have these tests if all they prove is that people who make tests are retarded?
    USUALY in society, when only 50% of the people agree that your answer is correct, you are not deemed an expert yet test makers have the guts to say they are right even though half the people disagree with them.
    It's 50% of the students who are agreeing that the testmakers' answers are correct. "the people" is a different thing. "the people" would be more likely to get a little bit better score, since many of them have had additional education.

    Have you considered that they're just trying to provide a challenge, rather than writing tests that any idiot can score a 95% on?
    Last edited by shark_megabyte; 12-06-2002 at 09:17 PM.
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  2. #17
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    The answer to this question is not that ambiguous, if you've studied some from a *writing* perspective. You can eliminate C and D, because they don't necessarily show anger. "stared ungratefully" is better than either C or D, but staring is still a relatively passive act. The best answer is B, because intentionally bumping her is an act of outright physical aggression, and there's nothing better for displaying anger than raw hostility in physical contact. If you're writing and you want to make a character's personality clear to the reader, the best way to characterize him is by what he DOES. That's not the only way of course, but it's the way that comes through quickest, loudest, and clearest.
    your system of deduction is very flawed.
    you cannot elminate C and D together... D you can probably eliminate but C is quite possible. when some people are angry they may strike something like a wall, a counter or the floor if nothing is around.
    B cannot be neccessarily taken as a form of anger because if you know anything about psychology you would recall that physical agression is also a sign of sexual tension. some boys will do physical things to gain attension of a girl such as being a jackass in any form.

  3. #18
    Member shark_megabyte's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ShawnD1
    What is the main idea behind this poem?
    A. the man is very lonely
    B. the man knows he is dying
    C. the man's cold environment reflects his personality
    D. the man is in a dark situation and the environment expressed is symbolic

    Why does the man say the moon is better than the sun?
    A. the moon lights up the night in winter time
    B. the moon is out more than the sun in winter time
    C. the moon is more beautiful to look at
    D. the moon is symbolic of his emotions

    Why does looking at the frost make him so sad?
    A. frost is cold and innanimate
    B. frost is almost impossible to see through
    C. frost is hard to get off the windows
    D. the frost will eventually leave him

    now, this story had LOTS of ways to be interpretted. the 2 main ways that i saw were that he realized he was going to die and that he was lonely because darkness can sometimes symbolize isolation.
    for these questoins i picked:
    the man is very lonely
    the moon lights up the night in winter time
    frost is almost impossible to see through

    [...] i got all 3 of those WRONG because the answer they WANTED me to put was that he was dying. nowhere did the story actually say that he was dying or that he was lonely, it's just sort of hinting in either direction.
    You're right, it's all in the hints, but it seems like you didnt quite follow where they were going. I've read a lot of Frost, but I don't remember this one off the top of my head. But I can tell you a few things without looking it up...

    You could be right, the old man may well be lonely, but from what you've written here, I see dying or decline as a more prevalent theme in this poem. What you would look for to support the idea that loneliness is the main theme would be things like a lot of "one"s showing up (solitary animals, a single line of footprints in snow), or repeated images that suggest emptiness (two places set at a table and only one being used, a double bed with only one pillow on it).

    But I'm not seeing any of that showing up. Instead we have an old man, the moon favored over the sun, and also frost laying thick on a window. When we think of an old man, somewhere it must figure in that he is approaching the end of his life. Whether he's sick or not, if he's "old," then the majority of his life is behind him. He's declining, or dying. What about the moon, what makes it different from the sun? It's dimmer, its light and warmth are very diminished compared to the fiery energy of the sun. Now with these things in mind, what's the characteristic of frost that best goes along with them? It's cold and inanimate. The frost and the moon are being used to suggest that the old man is not too far from death, because he is identifying with the cool, weak moon, and then with the icy lifeless frost. It's coming together to show a lack of energy and it clearly suggests that on some level, he knows his body will soon be cold.

    Originally posted by ShawnD1 you could very easily write a 3 or more page essay (double spaced) explaining why it's about loneliness or why it's about dying yet they've somehow compressed it down to 1 side being right and 1 side being wrong.
    Here you're right too, but I think you're coming at this from an angle that's not appropriate for the test. You could write a good essay explaining how elements of loneliness figure into the poem, or why dying does, but when you write an essay like that, you're kind of taking on the role of a lawyer, defending your position. In a multiple choice test, you have no chance to defend your position, your position has to defend itself. So you need to be thinking like a crime scene investigator looking for the evidence FIRST, and thinking about everything you see before allowing yourself to form conclusions. If you find that your conclusions don't fit with any of the answer choices, or that some of your answers seem to disagree with each other, then you're missing something.
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  4. #19
    Member shark_megabyte's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ShawnD1
    you cannot elminate C and D together... D you can probably eliminate but C is quite possible. when some people are angry they may strike something like a wall, a counter or the floor if nothing is around.
    My reasoning is that stamping CAN be an expression of anger, but doesn't HAVE to be. It could as easily suggest impatience. You can infer from the other evidence that it's probably anger, but it's still not the most active expression.


    Originally posted by ShawnD1
    B cannot be neccessarily taken as a form of anger because if you know anything about psychology you would recall that physical agression is also a sign of sexual tension. some boys will do physical things to gain attension of a girl such as being a jackass in any form.
    1) I don't think the aggression is a sign of sexual tension when the subject is also shown shortly afterward staring at the girl without any positive emotion at all. Also, directing the aggression at the desired girl herself is the height of stupidity, as it will bring only negative attention from her.
    2) This isn't a psych test, so you can safely assume that you won't need any Psychology knowledge in it.

    And a new thought: "sexual tension," from a literary/dramatic perspective, can be unconsciious and does not preclude anger. Plenty of characters have been irate with one another before and during during great romances (Anna Karenina and her lover Vronsky. Most Bronte couples. Countless movie characters) I still say elbowing coldly past someone in the hall is the choice that most clearly expresses an unhappy emotion toward them.

    I'm not trying to show off at your expense; you asked questions and I'm trying to answer them. I was pleased to see another area I enjoy working with come up here on Sysopt.
    Last edited by shark_megabyte; 12-06-2002 at 09:28 PM.
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  5. #20
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    LOL. I cant spell but I killed in reading comp. It means just what it says. You read, then the questions are to see how well you comprehend what you just read. Your ability to understand the words. In 8th grade I got a 2nd year college level score on reading ability and comrehension.

  6. #21
    Account Closed Optimus Prime's Avatar
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    Originally posted by $1500-P4 gamer
    LOL. I cant spell but I killed in reading comp. It means just what it says. You read, then the questions are to see how well you comprehend what you just read. Your ability to understand the words. In 8th grade I got a 2nd year college level score on reading ability and comrehension.
    you just guessed it dintcha? .

  7. #22
    Complete & Utter Member j.m@talk's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Optimus Prime


    you just guessed it dintcha? .
    Being the author of the most readable posts this side of the Congo "I did"

  8. #23
    Ultimate Member RayH's Avatar
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    I have no qualms about students given reading comprehension tests. But sometimes there are multiple answers the test designer didn't even realize could be also correct.

    But quite often, the answers just test whether or not you have the same undestandings as the test designers--not if you have good, clear, logical thinking.

    "A rolling stone gathers no moss means" : is one of my favorites. Because two view of the situation are give. And depending upon YOUR understanding, either can be correct.

    Originally, the phrase was meant to mean those that keep wandering don't put down roots or acquire things.

    When I first heard it, I figured why would I want some nasty growth on me. So I thought that it meant that you should keep moving!
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