Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 121

Thread: Cost Adjusted Comparison of the Athlon and Pentium 4

  1. #46
    Senior Member Slade54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    852
    Yes, like when they drunk british engineers used their freezer for cooling, and overclocked a 486 to over 200MHz!! Now that is insane.

  2. #47
    Member wallie_x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Central Calif. USA
    Posts
    444
    If silicon dies were cheap we'd have no heat problem with any current CPU. The old T-Birds problems were not so much bad engineering, but more so a capitalist reality. Higher production costs mean high priced CPU's. Same with the new T-Breds small die size equals poor heat transfer do to a physiological reality: less actual contact w/HSF to dissipate heat. Why? Silicon wafers cost a lot of money to produce. In order to compete with Goliath, David has had to compromise. So what. AMD CPU's perform very well even better mhz for mhz than Intel.

  3. #48
    Member rlbogue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    54
    Originally posted by mattj2012
    rlbogue stated :
    You know Bob, lol ... Have you been to walmart??? they buy the cheapest stuff(inferior) you can buy and sell it cheap.. Even though i shop there i dont expect to buy quality stuff
    Funny, in most cases Wal-Mart sells the same brands as other retailers. I'm sure that they purposefully tell their vendors to ship them the inferior stuff -- Not!

    I'm sure there are SOME things that Wal-Mart sells that are of lower quality, but my point was that on a brand by brand basis they tend to sell for less -- and nothing about the product has changed. It's the same stuff for less.

    Rob

  4. #49
    Ultimate Member Beeblequix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Ruins: Deus Ex Incarnate
    Posts
    1,402
    dittos to rlbogue. I was going to refute the less-than-complimentry 'argument' about Wallyworld selling inferior stuff that matthew put up, and Mr. Rob literally took the words out of my mouth regarding the brands and prices found between them and other retailers.

    Some folks post in threads, ignore all the stuff they can't refute, and stretch to stamp out a person's good name by attacking Wal-mart. What is this country coming to....

    ß.Qµix

    ps. hey Slade54, I remember laughing pretty hard over that exact article. I remember they took photos of their lagers, the fridge, needed to clear out the fridge for their K-A cooling system so they, uh, drank the lagers. That was a grand ole link. Don't s'pose you know it off the top o yer head? Post it if you do--it's a riot.
    Last edited by Beeblequix; 08-19-2002 at 11:36 AM.
    "all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others".
    George Orwell

  5. #50
    Gone Fishin' ukulele's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Southern Most Point in US
    Posts
    6,260
    If silicon dies were cheap we'd have no heat problem with any current CPU
    Here we go again. What heat problem are you talking about? You don't have a valid point to make here. AMD chips run hotter. It is not a problem unless you make it a problem. Qualify your arguments. Just what is the problem?

  6. #51
    Ultimate Member Strawbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    4,706
    I have been thru 6 AMD procs since the 486 x66 in 93/94 and I have: a. never fried one (despite running without HSF)
    b. never had one fail to operate in any other way.

    Of the performance issues, yes! Intel did have an early lead which AMD surmounted until recently, when Intel regained the lead and may well stay there for sometime to come.

    I think the real issues are the cost of individual processor costs (as opposed to batch (per 1000 units) purchasing) and the "David Vs. Goliath" "big brother" factor.

    Big Business doesn't know how to housekeep (for an example, see recent financial reports of poor accounting practices) and thus will always go for a name as big as thier own rather than give thier money to a smaller company. They beleive they can afford Intel Processors at any cost. And this attitude drives the cost of the individual chips.

    The smaller Individual Builder will always act in a more price concious manner, and will study the price\performance data before deciding which way to lean.

    IMO. IMHO Individuals that buy Intels, by ridiculing the AMD brand, may only be trying to protect the integrity of thier more expensive purchase decision. They tend to see zero performance increase in everyday apps\games, they sit and hope to hear of AMD disasters that fail to materialise, and then revert to "old" video clips to try and convince ppl that AMD chips are inferior to thier "double-the-price" Intels.

    There is very nearly NO viable, practicle reason (Video Editing being the POSSIBLE exception) for an Individual to spend the extra money on an Intel chip (BRAGGING RIGHTS EXCLUDED ).

    Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows this to be a fact, But there will always be those that argue the facts and try to convince other that they weren't mugged when they purchased thier high priced Intel.

    Remember! Only the presence of AMD in the market keeps the cost of Intel processors as low ( )as they are today.

    But this is just IMHO. I could be wrong ...Right?

  7. #52
    Extreme Member! BipolarBill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Norton Noo Joisey
    Posts
    41,528
    Originally posted by Strawbs
    I could be wrong ...Right?
    Well which is it?

    I see that no one here has ever lost an AMD CPU. Funny - I fried three of them in one month. It was June of this year. Uke knows the details. Basically, the HSF was not quite seated on the die. Oh - it was clipped and greased, but not quite flat. Result? Two dead Athlon XPs and one dead Duron. Average time to death - 5 seconds. Never made it to POST and system check.

    This happened because I changed HSFs while the motherboard was still in the case. I could not see that the tight-fitting Thermalright SK6 was riding up on the socket "step-up". All it needed was a push. I discovered the problem only when the motherboard died too and had to be removed.

    That video may be "old", but it's still valid. Until a few makers besides Asus implement the new thermal protection scheme in their motherboards, we'll see more of this.

    An Intel CPU would have survived my bone-headed mistake.
    MS MCP, MCSE

  8. #53
    Gone
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    5,713
    hows this! Heat is a issue. No mobo temp is supposed to go over 95F not any that I have had yet anyways. So having a 15-20c hotter cpu makes that much higher sys temp. The mobo is that much closer to death temp. What is the #1 likely to die part in a sys other than periphials like hdd and cdrom-MOBO. Raising the temp raises the risk. How can YOU say heat doesnt matter. Of course it does wether it within the cpu's limitations or not its still unnecesary heat running into all the other components. Now add 3 more fans and a all copper HSF unit with a HUGE LOUD fan. Yep now its the same temp. Still telling me you wouldnt like to run almost silent at the same temp as P4. Keep kidding yourself. You know if heat is the arguement- you spend $50 less on the cpu, but in turn to keep SYSTEM temp as low as the Intel you now have to add the higher priced HSF $50 or so and several case fans to take that heat out say $15-$20 for good quiet ones. YOur now spending 15-$20 more than the Intel cpu was! But the same temp now. Thats not a budget savings at all. Each has their own niche in the market and their own uses. Thats why both co's still exist. If you think people only buy Intel cause there popular then you are the one who's being fooled! Sure, the dumb masses will always follow the lead, but its the leaders that use their heads! Not little green aliens. AMD has a place in the pc market, same with Intel. Both are great-both need to improve ALOT.

  9. #54
    Ultimate Member Strawbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    4,706
    Bill I love your style and value your replies , But you said it ...
    my bone-headed mistake.

  10. #55
    Extreme Member! BipolarBill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Norton Noo Joisey
    Posts
    41,528
    You work at the Washinton division of large engineering firm.

    Ok, so you're shipping in 10,000 AMD tower PCs and 1% of them are shaken to the point where the HSFs fall off. They won't start and need extensive diagnostics and service.

    You move 500 AMD PCs from your old engineering building to a new one and lose 10 of them to thermal failure.

    Dust buildup in your floor-standing tower PCs goes unnoticed for months and people are losing data and productivity because of heat buildup until someone figures out the problem.

    I won't even mention the bogus chipsets and driver problems.

    I work at the LA division of the same company that you do and my Intel PCs have 80% less downtime.

    Guess who get's promoted to CIO for the company?
    MS MCP, MCSE

  11. #56
    Member wallie_x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Central Calif. USA
    Posts
    444
    "Qualify your arguments"
    I thought I did? If silicon wafers were cheap to produce we'd have bigger on die CPU's simply to dissipate heat better. It's one of the reasons Intel chips run cooler. Their much greater on die size means greater area that actually contacts the HSF, which in turn means better heat transfer. However, thats not the only reason they run cooler. AMD's smaller on die size, and so-called heat problem, is much more a compromise because of financial constraints. Calm down there Uke, I'm on your side.

    Isn't anybody going to ask me?? My new avatar and location begs the question!!! Village of the Damned!! Where's that?
    California, Village of the Damned, same thing.

  12. #57
    Member rlbogue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    54
    Originally posted by Strawbs
    There is very nearly NO viable, practicle reason (Video Editing being the POSSIBLE exception) for an Individual to spend the extra money on an Intel chip (BRAGGING RIGHTS EXCLUDED ).
    I suppose I should mention that AMD has had better floating point performance than Intel for a while and Video Editing is more floating point based than integer based -- at least with most of the more recent CoDecs. Excluding of course, the Intel Indeo codec that was specifically designed to minimize their floating point performance problem...

    Rob

  13. #58
    Extreme Member! BipolarBill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Norton Noo Joisey
    Posts
    41,528
    Big village!

    I remember that movie. It scared the **** out of me back in the '60s.
    MS MCP, MCSE

  14. #59
    Member rlbogue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    54
    Originally posted by BipolarBill
    Guess who get's promoted to CIO for the company?
    The guy who didn't spend all of his time worrying about PCs and was worrying about the strategic role of IT in his business.

    You've made some interesting guesses at failure rates. Got any data to back that up?

    Rob

  15. #60
    Ultimate Member Strawbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    4,706
    Originally posted by BipolarBill
    You work at the Washinton division of large engineering firm.

    Ok, so you're shipping in 10,000 AMD tower PCs and 1% of them are shaken to the point where the HSFs fall off. They won't start and need extensive diagnostics and service.

    You move 500 AMD PCs from your old engineering building to a new one and lose 10 of them to thermal failure.

    Dust buildup in your floor-standing tower PCs goes unnoticed for months and people are losing data and productivity because of heat buildup until someone figures out the problem.

    I won't even mention the bogus chipsets and driver problems.

    I work at the LA division of the same company that you do and my Intel PCs have 80% less downtime.

    Guess who get's promoted to CIO for the company?
    I say ...let the Tech guys sort it out, they can Earn some of that money they charge.

    Meanwhile, I'm counting the Fat Bonus I got for saving the Company $Gazzillions£ in the initial outlay.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •