Gates Admits That Windows Can Be Stripped

[tycoonist]

How come Bill can't just strip Windows and still offer the browser and media player to the customers. He could always go the AOL route and offer people that buy already-built computers or Windows OSs a free CD disk containing the newest Internet Explorer and/or the Windows Media Player.

[roothog683]

Since 98Lite has allowed stripping all the garbage from Win98 / 2K, and the OS function much better; I see no reason to listen to Gates whine and lie.
He wants to charge $300 for an OS when we should pay no more than $30.

[tantone]

Personally, I think Microsoft has done an incredible thing by dominating the market the way they have. I think it's a credit to their creativity (although sometimes borrowed from others--like the original DOS and the MAC OS), marketing, and tenacity.

If you think back a few years, the majority of people with a decent level of computer knowledge never used IE. Netscape had them pinned to the wall. So MS either had to make IE better, or concede and find some way to integrate the Netscape browser into the OS via some deal with Netscape. So they made IE better and now most of us wouldn't use anything else.

*****If you notice, they never started complaining to the govt how Netscape bundled all kinds of stuff with the browser--e-mail, newsgroup, 3rd party software.

I think everyone is up in arms about MS and this anti-trust fiasco because, while there may be a tiny thread of truth and the smallest thread of a legitimate gripe here, they simply can't compete and are afraid of having such a miniscule market share that they'll be forced out of business.

Come out with a better product and I'll gladly retire my MS apps. How many of you use WinAmp instead of Media Player? There's a good example.

[CoNeSsIuS]

I have to agree with Tantone. This is the way I figure it. If people have problems with MS then quit using it. Simple as that. Don't get me wrong I think that Mr gates would find any way to take as much money from you as he can. However Just because he decides to put IE, Media player, etc etc into his OS. Why penilize him? Just becuase some other company cannot make something that is better than MS?

It kind of breaks down to this. Whoever the first car manafactuere was that made air bags. You don't see the court system after the car industry about those air bags. Those "Features" that may push car buyers to buy that brand of car for those air bags.

I guess my main fuss is who gives the Government rights to say how big a company can grow and what they can put in their software. It's like saying well you can't build that game with 3d effects because no one else on the market can do it as good as you. I would almost get the feeling of mommy and daddy (aka Government) made things even between the siblings. Then turned around and said ok children play nicely or were going to fine you!

I think our next goal is to make Intel and AMD start pushing back on what kind of chips they can produce and what they can make their chips do. This is the game isn't it?.......

[Omega2k1]

Apple does the same thing, Look at QuickTime and I-movie and I-tunes. If i'm not mistaken its bundled with a mac.

[version5]

Come out with a better product and I'll gladly retire my MS apps. How many of you use WinAmp instead of Media Player? There's a good example.

Oh man, that last sentence sounds so much like a troll.

You're right that nobody used IE 2 or 3 because it sucked. Really really sucked. Not that it was Microsoft's fault, because they bought it from Spyglass and renamed it, kinda like they did with Word, Excel, Visio and tried to do with Quicken... So much for creativity. The reason they became the most popular browser was because Windows 95 came bundled with IE 3.0 and because they strongarm OEMs like Dell so they can't install competing software like Netscape Navigator.

Not that that's illegal... oh wait... unless you happen to be a monopoly, and you are leveraging your position to maintain your monopoly or expand into other areas. And the courts have found this to be true.

If you notice, they never started complaining to the govt how Netscape bundled all kinds of stuff with the browser--e-mail, newsgroup, 3rd party software.

Irrelevant. Netscape isn't a monopoly.

The reason that everyone is up in arms about the anti-trust is because, in America, no matter how big you are, when you do something illegal, you are held accountable for those actions. It amazes me how many people feel qualified to second guess the opinions of both the original judge and the appeals court.

On the topic of media players: Everyone I know uses Winamp. Its a hugely popular product and not going away any time soon. I only occassionally use Windows Media Player for .asx video files, and I always regret it, because its a buggy, bloated pile of ****. Unlike Winamp, which is sleek, sexy, doesn't take up half your RAM to play an mp3. Nullsoft are responsive to their users and add useful features, plugins and skins.

Modularizing Windows is one of the best remedies proposed so far. Open up Windows, and start some true innovation instead of being locked into Microsoft solutions, that's what I say!

[SpaceBz]

I used to be strongly opposed to Microsoft products, and their strangle-hold on the market, but I later came to realize that they existed because people chose them! They made the product that everyone wanted, and they made the best availible product to meet the needs of the public.

I am in fact, outraged that the government has pursued such a relentless and unforgiving trial to try and break up the industry's leading developer of office apps and OSs. They created internet explorer (or at least own it) and it is their right to give it out to whom they choose.

The way I see it, windows is designed to provide compatibilty (Though not always great) to all the latest and greatest technologies on the market. Should it be a crime to market what people need to do what they want? NO! Internet Explorer is necessary for those who want to get there computer up, and get on the internet without a whole lot of fuss. Who wants to set up and install another application for every little thing? It would be very annoying to have to install a different program to say, play CDs, browse your hdd, or network your computers. Just because there is another (inferior) product on the market does not mean they should be given the right to all of MS's money.

If Netscape could compel me to use their product, I would sure be there. But since I find it less reliable, slow beyond all doubt, and overly clunky and incompatible, I will stick with my IE!

Another important point to consider is money. Is Microsoft truly making money off of this practice? Do they force us to pay for their browser and disallow all others? NO! It is free, and publicly available. As is netscape, as well as other browsers. If they want to go out of their way, and make an OS that will crush Microsoft, then more power to them, but untill then, they should **** out!

Besides, my Mandrake Linux 8.1 comes bundled with Netscape. Is this illegal too?

[Brian48]

It is a fact. The US government spent more money last year (prior to 9/11) persuing Bill Gates than they did chasing terrorists.

[gfunkmartin]

Microsoft isn't half as bad as people want to say: Personally I think it's just human nature to want something to gripe about. People like the underdog. Microsoft is a huge corporation, so it must be bad. Intel is big, so AMD must be a better alternative (don't flame me on this one - it's a little off topic) Mom and Pop Delis are better than Subway.

Yeah, at first IE did suck really bad. I still don't like all of its features. Some things about Netscape make me mad. I'm trying Opera to see if I like it (That's what I'm using right now.) They're ALL better than lynx

Windows MP sucks for V7.1 I still use V6.4, because that one wasn't too bloated, just the bare necesities. I use RealPlayer now and then. Point is, use whatever you want. Stop worrying about the **** corporations. They exist. Deal with it. If you use products based solely on their merits as a product, the good ones will proliferate and the **** will disappear (Theoretically)

[roothog683]

OK, sounds like the general public says:

"Bill is great, Bill is good, let us thank him for our food."

Using 98Lite to install 98se allows me to remove the security flaws built into IE6 and install Opera, remove the Outlook Express hacker heaven and install Eudora, and remove all kinds of bloated garbage that slows a 1.4 Ghz processor down to 386-DX speeds.

WinAmp? Surely you mean MusicMatch...why use second rate software; oh yeah, it's free.

As a consumer, all I want to buy is the OS at a sensible cost. Nothing else! I choose the apps that run on my computer, not Bill Gates. Yet, I have to pay inflated prices for the OS due to the mega code of garbage that is supposedly "free".

Once MS kills off every company that tries to market non-MS products, what do you think the price will be: $10,000 like Unix once cost!

Monopoly can be good, but in Gates' hands it is pure evil.

[rlbogue]

Originally posted by roothog683

He wants to charge $300 for an OS when we should pay no more than $30.

How did you arrive at that number? Did you factor in Research and Development, Marketing, Legal, etc.? Are you saying that Microsoft should be a charity?

Rob

[rlbogue]

Originally posted by version5

The reason that everyone is up in arms about the anti-trust is because, in America, no matter how big you are, when you do something illegal, you are held accountable for those actions. It amazes me how many people feel qualified to second guess the opinions of both the original judge and the appeals court.

The funny thing about the anti-trust laws are ... The things that you are EXPECTED to do when you start a business are the very things you can't do when you're a monopoly. And as clear as it may seem you don't get a report on your desk one morning that says "Congratulations we've now been defined as a monopoly, stop using all those tactics."

As for the MS case, Monopoly is defined as "A company or group having exclusive control over a commercial activity. " Microsoft does not have a monopoly on computer operating systems, web browsers, etc. Apparently some people haven't heard of Linux, MacOS, Unix, etc.

Rob

[rlbogue]

Originally posted by gfunkmartin
Microsoft isn't half as bad as people want to say

Are you sure? I thought they were twice as bad, but we we're making them out to be better just so they would continue to do charitble things.

Microsoft is ... At least twice as bad as somepeople say ... and not nearly as bad as others say

Rob

[CoNeSsIuS]

Originally posted by version5


Modularizing Windows is one of the best remedies proposed so far. Open up Windows, and start some true innovation instead of being locked into Microsoft solutions, that's what I say!

Not to pick on what your saying, but that would be a big headache. I can see three reasons why this could be a bad thing. I am MCSE 2000 certified. I know win 3.0 (which was more like a shell thing than anything) win 3.1, 3.11, win95, a, b ,c, win 98, SE, Win nt 3.5, 3.51(Including the different versions like workstation, server, advanced server, clustering, etc etc) Win2000 workstation, server, advanced sever, win XP, and not to mention ME. Ok let me take a breather. That was a mess what I just listed. With modules how much more do I need to study and learn?

Another reason would be what microsoft dose now. You build your network. Then you relize you need email for your clients. So you have the choice of buying Exchange (which is a module) or you can use another pice of software which works great for email. Like Mandrake linux. So now each new thing I want to use I got to pay for these Microsoft moudles. If you take more of bundled software out then we would have to pay for more of that software. PLus who want's to pay for another software part? So if you get the choice of a module ie component and a netscape one. Well i'm sure they will still both be free.

Then you run into the problem that Linux has. There are so many different versions of linux that it's hard to find drivers. It's getting better but the support is not as good. If windows was moduler which video driver will work with what version of what module?

Don't get me wrong something needs to be done with microsoft. Each different version I have noticed different compatibility issues. XP and 98 works great with some of our dos based apps. 2000 chokes. Or they will move certian commands around or basic functions like clearing the my documents menu. XP moves the clear function to a different location.

Something has to be done but I don't think my life would be any eaiser trying to load 50 different modules each time I set a machine up!

[Dave Myers]

I can just imagine a MS board meeting in the late 90's where someone asked "How can we increase the price of our OS?" Then during the insuing brainstorming session, the following statements were made. "I know, lets make or buy a whole mess of ancillary applications, slap our name on them, and then make Windows dependant on them! We'll then include the cost of those apps in the overall cost of windows! Since or OS is dependant on our apps, other vendor's apps will screw with the productivity of the users computer, bringing them right back to us! Since most computer buyers don't know a Ram module from a motherboard, we will come out like bandits!" Oops, Y'all forgot about the techies didn't you?

For all of those that say MS is so big because they make the best products really need to check themselves. People forget that MS has basically purchased or stolen their entire market. DOS was purchased, as was most of the Office line, and as stated above so was IE. Hell, Windows started as a poor mans Mac OS. What Microsoft did was distribute their products with IBM and the such. Through distribution and market saturation comes dominance. How else do you explain Ford historically selling stripped down overpriced vehicles that occasionally explode? Ok, I conceed that is a bit of a streach, but it illustrates my point. As a general rule, humans tend to fall into ruts and purchase the same thing because it is what they always bought before. It's become the new american way; Make a quality product, gain marketshare, then reduce your product quality to make more money. I'm not even really bagging on the product, I just love what competition in markets brings to the consumer.

I am no lawyer, I am just a dumb engineer, but Bill's admittance that Windows can be stripped down may end up being one of the hinges from which the antitrust litigation swings.
Besides, how many of you are using a pirated OS from our homeboys in Seattle? Make all the software piracy laws and produce all the propoganda you want. As long as something as easy to replicate as a Windows CD costs $200, there will be copies burned and hackers to get around MS authentication codes.