RAID 1

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05-23-2004, 05:50 PM
stix_kua

RAID 1

Hi all,

This summer, i am working ona project that incorporates a server with RAIDed drives. RAID 1 to be exact.

I have many question regarding the setup and use of the machine.

Keep in mind it has not yet been built.

I want to use this motherboard:

MSI Neo2-PFS (Platinum Edition)
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...ion=13-130-450

with an Intel Pentium 4 2.8C

plus 1GB of Kingston PC3200

Promise PCI-SATA RAID Controller Card FastTrak S150 TX4
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...ion=16-102-017

Supermicro 5-Bay Hot-Swap SATA HDD Enclosure CSE-M35T-1B
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...ion=17-121-405

and two

Western Digital 200GB SATA Hard Drive Model WD2000JD
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...ion=22-144-153

I have a few questions concerning compatibility between the chosen hardware as well as some other questions.

First, will the motherboard accept the RAID card and be able to boot from it?

Second, will the Hot-Swappable Enclosure work with the RAID card?

Third, can a RAIDed drive be hot-swapped?

Fourth, would a board with onboard RAID be better than a PCI card?

Thanks all.
05-23-2004, 07:11 PM
stix_kua

Anything?
05-23-2004, 10:39 PM
stix_kua

So?
05-23-2004, 10:59 PM
rangeral

Most newer ide and scsi drives support hot-swapping, just be sure to check with the manuf your dealing with before buying.
05-23-2004, 11:06 PM
stix_kua

Quote:

Originally posted by rangeral
Most newer ide and scsi drives support hot-swapping, just be sure to check with the manuf your dealing with before buying.

This is SATA...Thanks though...this is reassuring...
05-24-2004, 06:09 AM
Jarhed7276

SATA is hot swappable.
05-24-2004, 07:47 AM
stix_kua

Quote:

Originally posted by Jarhed7276
SATA is hot swappable.

Thanks again.:)
05-24-2004, 07:50 AM
stix_kua

But I still need to know this:

Can a RAID 1 drive in an array be hot-swapped without destroying the array?

and also,

Does an onboard SATA RAID work any better(faster) than a PCI card?
05-24-2004, 10:13 AM
BipolarBill

Quote:

Originally posted by stix_kua
But I still need to know this:

Can a RAID 1 drive in an array be hot-swapped without destroying the array?

and also,

Does an onboard SATA RAID work any better(faster) than a PCI card?

You have to dismount the drive in the RAID utility before hot-swapping.

Onboard is a wee bit faster.
05-24-2004, 10:25 AM
stix_kua

Quote:

Originally posted by BipolarBill
You have to dismount the drive in the RAID utility before hot-swapping.

Onboard is a wee bit faster.

Thank you so much Bill.
05-24-2004, 10:28 AM
stix_kua

Does anyone have any recommendations for a better SATA RIAD card?

I have selected this one so far and was wondering if there are any other opinions.

Promise PCI-SATA RAID Controller Card FastTrak S150 TX4
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...ion=16-102-017
05-24-2004, 04:03 PM
rangeral

I'm not a raid genius here but there should be at least 3 drives if your going to pull one at some given point so the drive can be rebuilt to the array, if you only had 2 drives not sure how much redundancy there could be if there was a lot of data to cover.

Also performance is good with 3 drives on the pci bus any more and performance drops as the sata has reached maximum throughput on a pci bus at around 127mb while the pci bus is 133 which is why 4 drives would start dropping off performance wise if thats what your looking for or something to keep in mind.
05-24-2004, 10:23 PM
stix_kua

Good eye...you're perfectly correct. Three drives or it won't make sense...I think this setup is to be more focused on the redundancy not performance really. I was also persuaded to use Onboard RAID becuase it offers just "a wee bit" more speed.

;)

Thanks for looking out for it though.
05-25-2004, 01:37 PM
stix_kua

After sending emails to both Promise and SuperMicro, Promise sent me an answer that display's the companies lack of testing and Supermicro says it'll work with the card. Promise then atempted to get me to buy their own hot-swap drive bay which has not been doing well in sales.

So I have found another board with onboard SATA with RAID (4 SATA ports) It is from EPoX It uses the Silicon Image Sil3114 SATA Chip which has been known to do well I guess, from the reviews I have read.
05-25-2004, 02:44 PM
wja777

Stix,

The epox "ep-4pda5+" has 4x sata raid 0/1/10/5 built in. Intel 865pe + ich4 chipset. It is $105 @newegg.

I have 2 epox boards in use and one more to be built. I have had good luck with them.

On board will save you some money as well....

If you are going with a 3 drive system and want redundancy, I believe you will need to go with a raid 5 stripe.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think:
raid 0 just spans disks mostly used for performance
raid 1 is more or less a 2 drive mirror
raid 5 requires at least 3 drives and uses on drive for redundancy so if any one of the 3 fail, you can put a new drive in and rebuild.
I don't know what raid 10 is

Good luck....
05-25-2004, 05:12 PM
stix_kua

So RAID 5 is like RAID 1 with the ability to swap out a drive in case one fails?
05-25-2004, 06:53 PM
Midknyte

http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00.html
05-25-2004, 09:58 PM
wja777

No, Raid 1 is a mirror. You need two drives. One drive is basicly copied to the other drive (one drive is redundant) if you have 2 80 gig drives in a raid 1 configuration, you will net 80 gigs of space. If one drive fails, you can break the mirror, and your data will be safe on the drive that did not fail. You replace the failed drive and then rebuild the mirror.

Raid 0 is the non redundant option you are thinking of. Min drives 2 max ??, if you had 2 80 gig drives, you would net 160 gigs with this option, 3 would net 240 gigs etc. The problem with this is if you loose one drive, you loose all your data. There is no way to rebuild.

Raid 5 is like raid 0 but with redundancy. Min drives required is 3. I think you loose a little space because of the redundancy, and there is a little speed degregation due to the overhead of the redundancy, (still somewhat faster than a single drive) but if one drive fails, it can be replace and all data can be rebuilt.

I do not know what raid 10 is, does anyone??
05-25-2004, 10:46 PM
wja777

Ok just read what raid 10 is.

It is a combination of raid 1's into a stripe.

In other words, you would need at a min 4 drives. 2 each for at least 2 raid 1 arraingments and then you can stripe the raid 1 drives.

You get the redundancy of raid 1 and the speed increase of raid 0.

The only problem is..... it sounds like you would need 4, 80 gig drives to net 160 gigs of space.

I would go with the raid 5 option on that epox board I talked about earlier... if you are looking for the most efficient way to get the safety of redundancy....
05-26-2004, 09:43 PM
stix_kua

Thanks all, to keep things simple i'll stick with RAID 1 and just use the third drive to rebuild the array in case of failure.
06-02-2004, 02:34 PM
wja777

stix,

raid 1 is equal to a mirror and you will only need 2 drives. If you want to use three, you will need to do a raid 5
06-04-2004, 12:28 AM
stix_kua

Sticking with the RAID 1...drop the hotswap and stickwith two drives
06-04-2004, 12:30 AM
stix_kua

When I said "keep the third drive to rebuild the array" I mean keep it wrapped up and ready to rebuild when one of the other drives fail so i do not have to wait for a replacement..
06-05-2004, 12:40 AM
wja777

Sorry Stix, I see what you mean now. You would a lot more space out of a raid 5 configuration because it would use most of the space available on all three drives, and also give you the redundancy you are looking for....
06-05-2004, 02:20 PM
stix_kua

Quote:

Originally posted by wja777
Sorry Stix, I see what you mean now. You would a lot more space out of a raid 5 configuration because it would use most of the space available on all three drives, and also give you the redundancy you are looking for....

I see what you are saying but RAID 5 is not an option...it has to be RAID 1...:)
06-05-2004, 02:31 PM
r8500

actually, raid 5 only uses the space of 2 of the drives, so in the example of 3 36 GB drives, your total raid 5 array would be around 72 GB.
06-05-2004, 05:09 PM
wja777

Thats right r8500, but with a raid 1 with 2 36gb drives, he will only net 36 gb of space. Thats why I thought if raid 5 was an option, seeing how he has the third drive anyway, he might want to go with raid 5 to gain the extra space...
06-05-2004, 10:03 PM
stix_kua

The 200GB of space is fine for now...
06-06-2004, 04:36 PM
causticVapor

Quote:

Originally posted by wja777
stix,

raid 1 is equal to a mirror and you will only need 2 drives. If you want to use three, you will need to do a raid 5

or have a controller that supports hot sparing
06-07-2004, 01:14 AM
stix_kua

Quote:

Originally posted by causticVapor
or have a controller that supports hot sparing

I think you meant hot-swapping?

Yes the controller has it....I think

Silicon Image Sil3112?
06-07-2004, 06:46 AM
lito pospos

get a compaq mid range server.

hot sparing is part of raid feature as sft,

hot spare drive, will take over in case one or more drive fail this defend how many hot spare u install (act as stand-by drive )
hot swap drive , you can remove any fail drive in live system with out powering off.
06-07-2004, 10:54 PM
stix_kua

Quote:

Originally posted by lito pospos
get a compaq mid range server.

hot sparing is part of raid feature as sft,

hot spare drive, will take over in case one or more drive fail this defend how many hot spare u install (act as stand-by drive )
hot swap drive , you can remove any fail drive in live system with out powering off.

Compaq is not an option. It has to custom built by myself...I could not explain why...;)

As for hot-sparing or whatever it is you call it, it's not something we want for this server. We are sticking with the original plan of having the third drive around to manually rebuild the array. Tis why we chose RAID 1 so there is not loss of data. Can you understand that? Stop tryingto suggest other RAID methods. We are sticking to RAID 1. If Hot-SWAP won't work, we'll work without it! But we are not doing Hot-SPARE ir RAID 5.