Elementary programming 101

[Female]

Hello
Would you please take the time to tell me what each programming language can accomplish? cc+, linux, Java 2, VB, etc.
Are they interchangeable? Can some do things that others can't? Is it just a matter of different syntax? Or is each one for a special purpose? I don't know any of these, but am interested in Java 2. But if I should start with something else first, please let me know.
Thanks a lot. BTW, if this questions has been asked before ad nauseum, please give me the link to the "same **** answer". LOL.

[qball]

Well, that would take a lot of time.

First, there are programming languages and OSes. A programming language IDE (itegrated development environment, what you use to write programs) and executables run in an OS. Let's just stick to PCs.

Major OSes:
DOS, CMP
Winders3.x, winders9X, NT, 2k, XP
Unix >> solaris
Unix >>Linux
others

Programming languages:
FORTRAN, Pascal
C/C++
Smalltalk
Java
VB, Powerbuilder, Delphi
others

So we have a lot of OSes and a bunch of programming languages. So let me get up on my soap box...

Most programming languages (PLs) are basically the same (relatively, kinda, sorta). Basically you can execute operations, branch and loop, period. All PLs do this by data manipulation and logical structures, if-then-else, do loop. Data Manipulation is well math and string/char data. Logical structures are the conditional and loop. There are different forms of the conditional, the if-then, if-then-else, if-then-elseif-else, case or swirch statement. Loops can increment 'do i=1, i=100, i+1', or be conditional 'while condition=true'. This is basically structured programming. Additionally, and implied above, all PLs support variables and statement/keywords that define and manipulate said variables.

See how easy this is. That being said, it is extremely important to understand and MASTER structured programming, imho. I'm amazed at Tech people who know the newer technologies (Java, EJB, etc) and can't program their way out of wet paper bag with a fully operational chainsaw. I diverge.

All LPs support the above. Next what differentiates LPs from each other is the level of sophistication. The next big words are OOP (Object-Oriented Programming) and Client-Server, etc.. Subjects much too large to expound upon.

So what's to do? My advice is to first learn
C. The basic difference between C and C++ is Streams and C++ is OO. So once you learn C, you can use to learn C++. Once you learn C++, all others will be different syntax and different object models. The concepts of structured programming and OO are universal.

Some may suggest Java (Java2 is the next version of java with EJB and some much better funtionality). Java was writtten for programmers. The fundamentals of Java are OO. It support structured programming, but the fundamentals are OO. So there is a level of sophistication that is most likely over your head from the get go. Not impossible to overcome, but learn structured programming first, then OO will be much easier to comprehend. Then you will look at Java and state, wow, this is pretty cool and easy.

Not that anyone cares, but my road map was/is:

FORTRAN
DOS, Lotus Symphony (123)
C
Winders3.x, NT, pcExpress,VB
VAX,UNIX
Powerbuilder, SQL Win9x
Java

[Female]

Qball! I love you!
I have asked this same question in four forums now and you are the first to not talk down to or over me! This was a fascinating letter. I just printed it. Thanks for taking the time for me.
Now I need to find out about "C". I am going to follow your guidelines.
Now the scary part begins....but at least I have an inkling now as to what it's all about thanks to you! Or at least, a glimpse where it was total darkness before. LOL.
Take care.

[Female]

qball
I found this:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/1317/

Do you know of a better site to start off with? Thanks.

[Female]

qball

LOL. I'm back. Sheesh. OK I looked at the first lesson. The classic "hello world" lesson. I managed to run that program in Java 2. I downloaded the Sun stuff and I know some DOS so managed to get it to work. But now what am I using to do this in C? Not notepad? Do I have to buy the C+ compiler?
Thanks.

[Ka0ticMiND]

about where to learn C programming, i would suggest www.cprogramming.com , it goes from A to Z, they have stuff there about compiling the programs, although i would suggest a unix/linux system, it sorta helps you get used to the enviornment. You are able to write the C code in notepad, then run it into the compiler.

Fixed link (you can edit your post by clicking your <IMG SRC="http://www.sysopt.com/forum/edit.gif" border=0> icon) -Socalgal

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 07-23-2001).]

[Ka0ticMiND]

btw
the link to the site is sorta messed up by that comma, plus, its a C++ tutorial site, so, here is a site with C tutorials, it does become quite advanced though: http://www.cm.cf.ac.uk/Dave/C/CE.html

for programming tutorials, i woudl suggest this site: http://www.programmingtutorials.com/main.asp

has tons of them.

[qball]

you are the first to not talk down to or over me!

Jeez, I'm slipping.

Anyway,

The website is lacking much more than some really basic stuff. Good job with running Hello World in Java. Most people can't even figure out how to intall the SDK, but I diverge.

If you want to continue with Java, by all means. You can actually do anything C can do in Java rather easily. But let's get you moving with C. You can download a C/C++ (C++ is a superset of C, so all C++ compilers can compile C code). compiler from http://download.cnet.com/ or better yet, buy a book.

Turbo C++ Programming in 12 Easy Lessons
by Greg M. Perry (Paperback)
OR
C Programming in 12 Easy Lessons
by Greg M. Perry (Paperback - August 1994)

The book will come with a CD or floppy with everything you need. An IDE, to code and compile and run and debug code easily, and any necessary compilers. The C programming book is excellent, I haven't seen the Turbo C++, but C++ is a little easier than C and I recommend.

You can get these books online, obviously, or you might be able to get one from a library?! Check out ebay or www.bookpool.com .

Remember, you can always get ther C++ book. Do one of the lessons in C++ and then try it in Java. Then when finished with C++ book, you will have a good understanding of structured programming in each.

[dragonB]

MHO to follow..
I think Java and C++ are fairly similar. If you got the Java working, I would learn that for a while, and then picking up C++ won't be as hard. Obviously there are some differences, big one I think is pointers, and it's much easier to learn those if you already have a solid Java foundation.

Here's my learning path..
Pascal,
C++,
Java,
Visual Basic,
other junk not really languages(asp, jsp, html, etc.)

Also, I'm curious what you all think of VB. I learned C++ and Java first. But what do you think of people starting with VB. Obviously it is a lot easier, especially for GUI oriented things. I think people would be pretty frustrated with other languages once learning VB. On the other hand, they might be thrilled with having more power/control over their programs.
cya dragonB

p.s. yea, qball rocks. He always gives a ton of great info

[Ka0ticMiND]

just out of curiousity
would Tcl/Tk be considered programming?or scripting?

[radbasa]

Good free online and d/ladble C++ and Java books at http://www.mindview.net/Books

also try http://www.ladysharrow.ndirect.co.uk/library/index.htm


for C, C++, Pascal, Java, perl, x86 assembly.
http://www.informit.com is also a good bet for online books. they got a lot of their older MCP, QUE, Sam's books online free.

my PL track
BASIC (not VB, the old line numbered BASIC)
Pascal
C
VB
x86 Assembly (why? i'm in hardware development. write progs that end up in ROMs. but i'm starting to prefer it over higher level languages. it just makes a whole lot more sense if you're used to fooling around with digital logic.)

[This message has been edited by radbasa (edited 07-22-2001).]

[Rhino302]

My college was using Java in the introductory programming course. I've gotta take 4 more courses, 2 each of a language. Probably gonna do VB and Java simply because of my schedule. By the way, if Female wanted to start off real easy, I would say take a look at this link for learning SQL. You do it online and it saves your tables for you so you can go back, and its free. I'm not sure if there's anythign similar for real languages.


http://www.sqlcourse.com/

[Female]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeez, I'm slipping.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOL! Well, straighten up and fly right will ya!

OK, I'm getting confused. (BTW, a few questions to start off with: 1) it says here "HTML is OFF - UBB Code in ON" what's UBB?? 2) how do you reply with a quote in this forum (I had to cut and paste).

Well, you better make up your mind qball! I'm going to go to Chapters, the local book conglomerate, and buy a book this week. Should I buy C, C++, Basic, or what the ????? LOL.

It's in your hands, big guy...
Thanks! See ya later
PS-my instincts tell me to learn Java later.
PPS-thanks for the input to all the others also! It's appreciated a great deal.

[Female]

BTW, I'm getting really excited about this!
Wooohoooooooo!!!

[qball]

Ka0ticMiND,

TCL is "an interpreted script language". Anyway, scripting is programming. Much like OSes that support command languages is programming also.

Rhino302,

SQL is a standard. Any SQL that supports Stored Procedures or Functions has programming support. In the real world, SQL is huge because DBs are huge. SQL is good to know, but not in the spirit of the original thread.

Speaking of which;

I'll assume you know HTML (iffin you don't, learn, much easier than programming), so UBB is Universal Bulletin Board. It is HTML like in it has certain tags, like "quote" and "url". Anyway, this link should explain:

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/ubbcode.html

This allows you to use HTML/UBB in the message you write to be displayed on the post, and therefore the magic of the "quote" is no longer...

Sorry to be confusing, but IT is confusing. [yoda]There really is no 'right' way or 'wrong' way to learn programming. There are mearly good ways and bad ways, young jedi[/yoda]. Now, I don't need to make up my mind, you need to decide, I already know how to do this, so I'm offering advice, you choose the path to follow.

Having stated that, I don't want to push you away from Java or PERL or TCL or FORTRAN or whatever. If it floats your boat, then go.

You may wonder why most beginning classes teach Java these days and I don't recommend. So here it is. Java is Object Oriented to the core. You can do "Hello World" in one simple println function call, but to any more complex you need to start using Objects. I claim that this is a level of sophistication that a beginner doesn't need to learn programming, they will later, but not now. Beginning courses teach only because Java is popular and a big keyword.

At the same time, I'm fearfully if you pick up a C++ book, it will be Object Oriented C++. Which will assume you know C and want to learn the ++ part. This won't help you much. The book I recommend is:

Turbo C++ Programming in 12 Easy Lessons
by Greg M. Perry (Paperback)

as;

In just 12 easy lessons, users will be writing code and getting answers to all of their programming questions. "Includes the Turbo C++ 2.0 compiler and all instructions needed to begin programming immediately. Covers loops, controls, relational logic, logical and bitwise operators, functions, and I/O with cout and cin. Disk includes the Turbo C++ 2.0 compiler and". Covers Turbo C++.

Post back with any further questions.