Access/VB/ASP/the web...relationships?

**doowle** · 07-11-2001 01:56 PM

Hi, I am taking a course on Access right now and use Frontpage to maintain a website. Can anyone recommend a good tutorial for putting an access database online and making it return search results? I am completely new to Access/VB/ASP and truthfully don't even know what asp is other than each time I search someone else's online access database I get a .asp webpage. Supposedly Frontpage makes it easy, but I am really a complete newbie to this process so I need to read up on how it all works. Basics like when I want to update the database, do I do it online so it's updated on the server or do I update it offline then upload an updated database to the server. The course on access I am taking is specifically excluding web application information....

**qball** · 07-11-2001 08:50 PM

and use Frontpage to maintain a website

Really? Post url.

ASP is Active Server Pages, basically microsuck server side scripting. You get *.asp extensions, when you use a website using ASP. Since it is server side, most of the logic is hidden from the browser, and the output is HTML in a 'stream', not a static *.html file, voila, browser request to *.asp, return html string, no need to update URL. A good thing about server side processing.

Access is basically Excel spreadsheets with some DB capabilities. YOUR taking the class and paying, so ask your teacher to provide tutorial. Iffin you have, my bad. OOPS, my bad, as...

The course on access I am taking is specifically excluding web application information

Humm, I wonder why? (rhetorical) Take class on 'Access specific to web applications' and it probably doesn't exist.

1. The web 'experience' starts with a browser request to a 'web server'.

2. The 'web server' decides what to do, a big "what to do". Most likely it will not invole an Access DB, though it could. Worse case, browser requested static html page and 'web server' returns ?.html file per request. But that's no fun.

3. The 'web server' passes request to either 'proxy server' or 'app server', dependent upon config, and server is vitual (could be same box, could be other). The 'proxy server' only exists as traffic cop, and ultimately will call 'app server'.

4. To make things easy (right?) the 'app server' processes request and returns html string to 'web server', who returns html to the browser making original request.

Taint them Access courses fun!

**dragonB** · 07-11-2001 10:20 PM

Hehe qball...
Since his post was dripping with sarcasm, most of which you probably won't understand I'll help you out a little(no offense intended qball

)

Access is a database by Microsoft. It is not very good, especially when it concerns speed, database size, scalability, etc. Pretty much everything important in a database.

Hence the sarcasm from qball.
Anyway, for something small, personal things, 3 person or less business, etc, it is fine.(as in it works and is cheap) For anything on a major scale, there are quite a few others out there, Oracle, DB2 being the first big ones off the top of my head.

VB is Visual Basic a programming language that is very easy, especially when creating windows gui stuff.(ps it is microsoft, and only works on windows.) It doesn't have a lot to do with web stuff, other than you CAN write web stuff in it, but I'm not sure if that is the easiest way...
Also, it is fairly good at using Access databases.

ASP like qball mentioned is a server-side scripting language. 2 other similar are JSP and cgi scripts(dont know perl, does it fit in this category?)
It basically can help you create dynamic webpages...
Very basic EX:

<html>
<head>
<body>

//asp pseudo code.... or jsp since I dont know asp syntax
<% system.out.getcurrenttime()
%>
//yes, I made that up, but there is a function like that somewhere.

</body>
</html>

Now when someone opens the webpage with the asp extension, the server(probably nt or 2000 for asp) puts the current time of the server in there, instead of the code.
2 very powerful things here...
1. dynamic content
2. Hidden code. The user never sees your code.(I'm sure there are ways around it, but not for average Joe)

So, you could put your database code in asp, and it could output whatever to a webpage.

Not too familar with frontpage, but I think it helps you through some of this code writing.

hope this helps,
dragonB

p.s. I actually quit a job after getting into a fight with my boss, because he wouldn't upgrade from Access to another database.(we had at least 4-5 gigs in 100 databases, most of it in 3 or 4 of them.) And he tried to blame me that my code was slow.. haha VB and Access...lol

**doowle** · 07-11-2001 10:42 PM

Here is the deal. One of the websites I use frontpage for (because I don't know html, I am aware fp is very inefficient) is http://www.petvault.com . The specialty vet for Gibson (Gibson's Ordeal) belongs to a veterinarian association of 450+ members. They have a spreadsheet of member names, phys addresses, mailing addresses, specialties, length of membership, etc. etc. Maybe 50 "fields" for each member. I told my vet to read Gibson's Ordeal (since it features her as Gibson's doc). She got excited, asked if I would do a website for her vet association. I said sure, (thinking a couple of static pages no problem). Then (among other things) the assoc said they wanted site visitors to be able to search the member directory by zip code, specialty, etc to find a local member vet. They are a non-profit org and too broke to even consider paying for such a service, so certainly a real db such as Oracle is outside of their financial abilities (or needs, really).
So I figured since I do own a copy of Access, and they said they'd be willing to buy it if I reorganized their current "database" to eliminate redundancies etc. (they retype entire address in mailing if same as physical, etc.) I figured that was the way to do it.
I am a student at San Diego State, and saw a flyer for a free "basic skills" course in access which started this week, so I crashed it. It only meets like 6 or 8 times, only 1-1/2 hours each, and it's free, hence the limited scope of the course. I did ask the teacher about web app, he isn't familiar with it anyway but said even if he was it was not within the scope of the course purpose.
If there is an easier way - without additional expense - for me to accomplish what they want, please enlighten me! I got kind of roped into doing this thing which I am clueless about...but these vets are far more technologically challenged than I am, plus they volunteer all over the county at the shelters, they are far more philanthropic with their time than I am...so I'd be a jerk to say I couldn't do it just because I have to learn it first.

**doowle** · 07-12-2001 01:34 AM

ps thanks dragonb

**dragonB** · 07-12-2001 01:51 AM

Sounds cool,
I would agree that access would be the way to go.
1. The database isn't too large
2. Money!
3. How many hits can the site possibly get?(not in the ebay range that's for sure)
4. Speed probably doesn't matter all that much.

Word of caution...you said you own a copy of access. That may not mean you have the right to deploy it on a server, etc... might want to check your license. I'd take a guess and say it's an academic copy, where as it might be iffy... The copy I use(for personal use) is from my company's MSDN subscription, so I wouldn't be allowed to use it on a public web server.

Sorry to say, what you want to do would be pretty tough.. for someone who doesn't know html. But, if you are familar with programming languages...html is WAY easier. But, the server side stuff would be more challenging.
What kind of server is this hosted on? Does it support asp, jsp, cgi, java, databases, etc?

good luck, sounds like a good cause.
dragonB

p.s. I try to get down to San Diego at least once a year, to visit a favorite Uncle down there.(only a 14 hour drive.

)

**dragonB** · 07-12-2001 01:54 AM

ps drop me an email, I'd be willing to help more...
Possibly even with the programming/scripting, good resume booster.

**doowle** · 07-12-2001 04:39 PM

Thank you both for sharing your knowledge. It sounds like I was on the right track thinking access was appropriate for their needs. That's a relief to hear on the license info qball. They did say they will purchase a copy of access when I get this done, but as I said their funds are very limited so special licensing might have sent them too far overbudget.

I don't anticipate the group getting too much larger in the near future. If they do get too big for access, then they should be able to afford to upgrade to oracle at that time I would imagine. In terms of traffic to the site, I really wouldn't have a clue. It's not like they have an existing site to look at for reference. But I think it would take quite a while for it to start getting much traffic other than from members themselves.

dragonb, any assistance would certainly be appreciated!! I will email you when I have more time.

Meanwhile, if anyone out there can recommend any good (free) tutorials on putting access db online for users to search I would be grateful for the hyperlink....

**Vagabond** · 07-12-2001 08:02 PM

www.webmonkey.com look around its in there...

**qball** · 07-13-2001 12:31 AM

no offense taken, no worries either...

http://<a rel="nofollow" href="http:...com</a> <br />

Very interesting idea, wish more of the web was in the same vein.

CGI (Common Gateway Interface) uses mostly PERL (programming language). It's been awhile, but I think you can access some system stuff using CGI without PERL.

Access will probably be sufficient for the purpose and size of site. Though iffin it gets popular, you will have scalability problems. BTW, I don't think you need a runtime licsence, meaning if ISP supports Access, you can use.

good luck.

**qball** · 07-13-2001 05:08 PM

Oracle is probably not an option, mucho gracias $$$. If it gets bigger than Access (see **) than you wil probably try something along the lines of "Adaptive Server Anywhere", a Sybase product which is fully functional SQL compliant RDBMS and much cheaper. Runtime is cheap also.

** Iffin ISP offers Access access, you will not need to pay any runtime fee.

webmonkey is an excellent reference, should have thought of it myself.

**^hyd^** · 07-13-2001 05:55 PM

here's some more links:

http://www.learnasp.com/learn/
http://www.aspalliance.com/
http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/
http://www.asp101.com

...these sites also have links to other ASP sites that should help you out.

Hope these will help a little...

! But definately find out if your webserver supports ASP before you get to far. And the server doesnt have to have Access installed, unless you want to look at the db on the server itself, it just has to have the proper drivers(?) installed for the type database you want to connect to...

[This message has been edited by ^hyd^ (edited 07-14-2001).]

**doowle** · 07-14-2001 01:41 AM

Thanks everyone! I have a lot of reading ahead of me...I have been wondering how I am going to get this done. Time has been tight between working two part time jobs, full time school, and playing nursemaid around the house. Then I realized, look at all that free time I have been wasting sleeping! When I could have been browsing webmonkey and learnasp instead...
Great resources, thanks so much for your posts.

**golfcart** · 07-15-2001 09:45 AM

I second www.4guysfromrolla.com

**Rhino302** · 07-17-2001 01:24 AM

Hey Doowle, its easy...You're using Access 2000 right? You just go to the pages tab. And you can make a web page from tables or queries. I've never put one ONLINE, but have run one locally on my PC. If you were to do it, you would have to put the access file on your web server I believe. If you had your own server, that would be cake, but I assume you are using a hosting server from another company, so you would have to upload the database each time you made changes. That's just my understanding

[This message has been edited by Rhino302 (edited 07-17-2001).]

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