3 questions for the big dogs. Who can help?

[Pack'nHeat]

OK. I've been reading this forum and O/Cing articles for some time and a few things I just can't grasp. Thats why I need a few educated answers from you all.

1 - You all say that the 600E (not B) is good for 800MHz so why spend the money for a 800, but if you do have the money for 800 would it last longer sence its not O/C?

2- Why do the Pentium III Bs (133MHz FSB) have a lower multiplier? If this is why there not good O/Cers what is the "supposed" benifit of the 133 FSB?

3- I'm thinking of waiting for the Intel i815 chipset. IT has 133 FSB so would a EB processer be better for this board and would this be good for O/Cing or would the multiplier still hold that back?

Lets see how good this forum is. Thanks all!

[daveleau]

1- OCing is a great way to get more for your money. I agree that I would rather buy a 600 that does 800 than an 800 and not overclcok it. But if I can OC an 800 to 1GHz (not likely) I would gladly get it if it wasn't too much more. Just get a speed you will be happy with (price-wise and performace-wise) and see how it overclocks. The 550E does 850 in many situations. The 600 will go that high as well but is not looked upon as a supreme overclocking CPU like the 550E.

2- 133 fsb X 6.0 multiplier = 800 MHz
100 MHx fsb X 8.0 Mult = 800 MHz
You can get a much bigger difference changing the 100 MHz fsb than you can a 133 MHz fsb because the 133 is almost maxing out most boards and RAM specs and putting a much bigger strain on cards. Plus the higher multiplier gives you more cycles/s/fsb (cycles per second per MHZ jump) MHz jump.
8.0 mult at 124 MHz = 992
6.0 mult at 145 MHz = 875
The "benefit" is to those that do not OC. A regular computer user gets the 133MHz fsb without any technical knowledge or tweaking. At default the PIII 800EB is significantly faster than the PIII 800E but an overclcoked 800E is much faster than a stock or even an overclocked 800EB.

3- DO NOT get an EB CPU if you are planning to OC. You will not get as good results or gains compared to the PIII xxxE.

I'm not a big dog but I think I answered them...

Dave

[This message has been edited by daveleau (edited 06-02-2000).]

[daveleau]

One more thing... Also look at the Celeron 2 specs. The 633 CPUs are in stock now and are destined to do at least 1 GHz. 633 with a 66MHz fsb = a 9.5 multiplier. Both of my Celeron 2's go higher than 100MHz (both do 112 stable with simple air cooling). Would you like to be the first ont he block with a 1GHz CPU?
Dave

Here's a link... Less than $200 can get you the Celermine (Cel 2) 633... http://www.allstarshop.com/shop/Subsection.asp?dept%5Fid=66&sid=QH6FR7FS52SR2H AB080205RWQL9H0N3F


[This message has been edited by daveleau (edited 06-02-2000).]

[Szech]

Whoop! Missed one Dave! (does a diving leap) I GOT IT! Raising the voltage, and running it faster makes the CPU run hotter. That heat will shorten the life of the CPU. That's why when you overclock, you get a bigger heatsink/fan, peltier, water, liquid nitrogen, etc. So better cooling will make your CPU last longer even if you're not overclocking. So if you take care of the heat, then overclocking might knock some time off the CPU's life, but they're rated to live, what, 10 years? What's a year or two less?

[krusty the klown]

The E vs EB deb8:

Here's an example (it works best using a slower chip as an example)

I buy P3 550E (5.5*100)

I run the FSB at 133MHz and the chip clocks @ 733 (remember, these are multiplier-locked). Now, 133MHz is an 'official' speed and, with the right mobo, all my back-side buses are in spec.

I can OC further (I'm running one @ 155*5.5=852MHz) and with certain mobos (VIA 133A's) I can keep my buses at reasonable speeds and run memory asynchronously.


Now, say I'd bought a 533EB (4*133), again, multiplier locked. As the bus is already @ 133, what am I left with? At 155MHz FSB, I can only clock to 620MHz. To achieve 852MHz from a 533EB, I would need a 213MHz FSB. I can tell you that this ain't gonna happen!!!

If you're not OCing, the EB should offer better memory performance, but if you OC, you avoid the EB like the plague!

BTW: If you have the money for an 800 (just OC that ), buy a 600, OC and spend the money you've saved on a CD burner or some more mem, whatever, IMO! Besides, by the time the OC'd chip dies, it'll probably be the equivalent of a 486 compared to what will be top of the range then. If you look at the price per MHz, the top of the range chips are extortionate and the mid range are a good compromise. 800 MHz will be cheap in 6 or 8 months. I certainly would be kicking myself if I'd spent £300 on a chip that was retailing for £150 6 months later. I'm still smiling about my darling little 550E

Sorry, I don't know anything about the I815 chipset.....?

[wtp]

the 800 would last longer since it's built to run at that speed, but OCing the 600e coppermine would be cheaper, and since you are not burning the chip (with proper cooling as an example), it will have a good life span, the only enemy is if the CPU just gives up. A CPU can't run forever at peak performance, over time, it will wear, and eventually die...

wtp

[Dputiger]

The reason to OC is actually economic--the marginal cost of computer peformance increases SHARPLY as you approach top of the line equipment.

Let me put that in English for non-Econ students. Marginal cost is the additional cost of getting one more of something--in this case, processor speed.

Example: 500 Mhz Celeron=50 bucks (hypothetically).
600 Mhz Celeron=150 bucks.
700 Mhz Celeron=300 bucks.
800 Mhz Celeron=600 bucks.

Now I've exagerated the difference a little and simplified things, but CPU's follow a cost curve that looks something like that. At the bottom, chips are very cheap (A K6-2 300 and a K6-2 550 are very close in price). At the top, chips are very expensive and minute differences become very important.

Overclocking cheats that curve. Even though a Celeron is not as fast as a P3, the difference is not huge at this point and is outweighed by economic considerations.

A Celeron 566 costs 106 bucks on Pricewatch and can be Occed to 850 w/no trouble and I think can hit 900 w/some fancy cooling.

A P3 850 costs 583 dollars. So if you OC that Celeron you'll pay a fifth the price and get practically indistinguishable performance. Even if you had to buy fifty bucks of cooling equipment, this is still a good deal.

[This message has been edited by Dputiger (edited 06-03-2000).]

[Pack'nHeat]

Hey. I have to say that was some good info. Thanks all! I added this all to the hard drive in my head and it's all churning. I wish I could hit defrag and put it all together.

OK. Let me throw this out and see if I'm on the right track.
My 440BX has a 100 FSB. If I install a xxxE I would need to change my FSB to 133 for good O/Cing but this would change my AGP to 89MHz,I think - (133 * 2/3 = 89MHz = 35% over 66MHz spec). I heard the GeForce can take the 89MHz. Also I don't know what this does to the memory. Like does one leave the 100 SDRAM and bump it up or put in 133.

If I'm kinda close then this sounds like to many limits being pushed. So would I be better off getting a MO/BO that is already set up for 133 FSB and 133 SDRAM and maybe 4xAGP? Then slap in a xxxE and then work on O/Cing. How does that sound?

One more thing. Back to my 440. If you slap in a sloket can you you bump it up to 133FSB with out effecting your AGP?

If I'm way off on all this feel free to tell me to give it up if not I'm ready for your comments. Thanks again.

[Szech]

Yep, it'd be much better to get a motherboard rated for 133 Mhz, and get a 550E or 600E. As for your RAM, it might be able to stand 133 Mhz, but it's not likely. You'll either have to invest in 133 Mhz RAM, or if you're getting a motherboard with the Apollo Pro 133 / 133A chipset, you can set the RAM to run at the FSB - PCI speed. That would end up being 133 - 33 = 100 Mhz, right on the dot. I don't know how much of a performance hit this would be, but it's just one solution if you can't afford any RAM right now.

As for slotkets, they merely convert a socket 370 CPU to a Slot 1 CPU, nothing more. It won't let you run the processer at 133 Mhz, and the rest of the computer at 100 Mhz.

[krusty the klown]

If you go for a celeron2 and a slocket, you do not have to change your mem & mobo. The celery2 by default, runs at 66MHz FSB. When you OC the celery, you end up running FSBs of around 100MHz:

example:

celery2 566 (8.5*66)

Run it at 100MHz FSB and the chip clox @ 850, no new mobo/mem required

BTW: make sure your mobo is compatible with the celery2 - if it can handle the coppermine P3's, you should be OK cos the celery is based on the same core. Remember that the celery runs @ 1.5V, so either make sure your mobo can supply that, or go for a slocket with an on-board voltage regulator.

[Bryan55]

With dropping CPU prices you can a 600E now & 933 or more next year for less than today's cost of a 733EB. Especially since CPUs around 700 MHz are & will be somewhat under supplied this year.