IDE Controller not recognized.

[Faith007]

I just restored a "Powerquest Drive Image" image to my Hard Drive and encountered the following problem afterwards:

The PC was not recognizing my 2 CD drives that are connected to the primary IDE controller of my motherboard.
So I went to Device Manager and noticed that there was a yellow icon with an exclamation point next to the "Primary IDE Controller (dual fifo)" icon under the "Hard disk controllers" section.

When I tried to remove this entry, I received the message:
"This device is part of a multi function device and can not be removed independently."

So I selected the icon above that one, named "Intel 82371AB /EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller, " clicked Remove, and that removed all 3 icons under the "Hard disk controllers" section, including the one that had the yellow error icon.

I then rebooted, went back into Device Manager and noticed:
1. No more exclamation point icon next to the "Primary IDE Controller (dual fifo)" icon.
2. The icons for my CD drives were there. One for my Pioneer CD drive and one for my Hewlett Packard CD-RW.
I verified that the CD-RW was working by copying files from it to my hard drive.
So far, so good.

HOWEVER, when I rebooted again and checked Device Manager, I saw that the exclamation point icon was back again and no CD drives were there any more!

Several times, I repeated the process of removing the "Intel 82371AB /EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller icon and rebooting, seeing the CD drive icons back in Device Manager, rebooting again and then seeing that the CD drive icons were gone again and the yellow icon was back on the "Primary IDE Controller (dual fifo)" icon.

I checked the IDE connector on the motherboard. It looks OK to me. There are no bent pins.

Then I tried this:
I put the IDE cable on the second IDE controller and tried the same procedure described above. To my surprise, I did not see the error icon in Device Manager anymore and I did see the 2 CD drive icons.
When I rebooted several times, I still did not see the error icon.
So it looks like it's working with the second IDE controller.

So why would this be the case?
When I had the CD drives connected to the first IDE connector and the CD drive icons were visible in Device Manager, I was actually able to copy files from the CD drive to my hard drive. So doesn't that indicate that the first IDE connector is working OK? And, if so, why the persistent error icons?


Does anybody know why this is happening? Please let me know if you do.
My PC is quite old, but it has been working fine up until now.

Here are its specs:
Micron Millenia
Processor: Pentium 200MHZ
RAM: 256MB
O/S: Windows 98SE

If you need any more information, please let me know.
Thanks for your help with this.

[Ol'Tunzafun]

If you have the serial number for that machine you may be able to download some fresh chipset drivers for it.
http://support.mpccorp.com/index.html

[Faith007]

I tried that, but there are no new drivers for it.
Besides, the PC was working fine before the recent reimaging, with the exact same configuration, so why would this problem have suddenly just started?

[Sterling_Aug]

Coincidence probably. Devices and parts in computers fail all the time. Usually quite suddenly.

You may want to spend $50 and upgrade that system to something a little more modern than a 200 MHz Pentium. You would be surprised what you can find at the computer shows or yard sales.

[Faith007]

Sterling:

I'm still mystified about this: How can the IDE connector actually be malfunctioning if, after I remove the ! icon in Device Manager and reboot:
1. The drivers are automatically installed by Windows
2. The ! icon is gone and the 2 CD drive icons are present in Device Manager.
3. I can actually copy files from the CD drive that is currently connected to this IDE port?

It seems to me that those things wouldn't have happened if the IDE port were actually going bad. That makes me think it's a Windows issue, rather than a hardware one. Anybody else have any thougts on this?
Thanks.

[bruceb]

It could be as said, a Hardware Failure.
However, I would first try a new CMOS
Battery on the Motherboard. If that does not
fix it, I would try a Repair Install of Windows.
If the problem remains you have a hardware
failure, either with the chipset or the IDE cable.

[Faith007]

Bruceb wrote:

I would first try a new CMOS
Battery on the Motherboard.

If the battery were the problem, why would the Secondary IDE connector work?

Bruceb wrote:

If that does not fix it, I would try a Repair Install of Windows.
If the problem remains you have a hardware failure, either with the chipset or the IDE cable.

I'm using the same cable to attach the CD drives to the seconary IDE port that I used to attach to the first one.

Isn't the same chipset used to control both IDE ports?
Furthermore, what about my question regarding the fact that I could actually copy data from the CD drive during those times when there was no ! icon in Device Manager? Doesn't that indicate a functioning IDE port and chipset?

[bruceb]

The chip that controls the IDE can be either one or two chips
depending on how they made the chip and which one they used.
Sometimes, the Primary IDE and the Secondary IDE chips are
seperate, other times, they are part of the same chip and internally
some of it can fail and other parts still work fine.

As to the battery, cmos is finicky and if the battery is weak it may not
retain it's settings. It is only about $2 for a new battery & it may fix the
problem. As to the IDE cable, if you have a spare cable, try swapping it.
I have seen IDE cables go bad that looked perfectly good


\

[Faith007]

bruceb wrote:

As to the battery, cmos is finicky and if the battery is weak it may not
retain it's settings. It is only about $2 for a new battery & it may fix the
problem.

Throughout the procedure I discussed above, whenever I rebooted I always checked the BIOS first and I always saw the 2 drives recognized there. So it's clearly not the battery going bad. Besides, a weak battery would make everything lose its setting, not just the Primary IDE controller.


bruceb wrote:
As to the IDE cable, if you have a spare cable, try swapping it.
I have seen IDE cables go bad that looked perfectly good

Once again, if it's WORKING while attached to the Secondary IDE cable, then it's working, and swapping would seem to serve no purpose.

[Sterling_Aug]

Do you want us to offer possible suggestions or would you rather argue all day about them?

Unless we are actually sitting in front of the PC, we are only guessing. You have to be our hands and eyes for troubleshooting. If you refuse to try what we suggest, then many of the members will stop suggesting anything which gets you no where.

[Faith007]

Sterling_Aug wrote:
Do you want us to offer possible suggestions or would you rather argue all day about them?

I did not consider the battery and IDE cable suggestions made above to be worth trying, since if those 2 things had gone wrong, there would have been other symptoms. That is not a criticism of bruceb -- he made a good faith effort to help me and I appreciate it.


Sterling_Aug wrote:
Unless we are actually sitting in front of the PC, we are only guessing.

That's not correct. I gave you sufficient information to do more than just guess. We can troubleshoot based on a RATIONAL ANALYSIS of the facts.


Sterling_Aug wrote:
You have to be our hands and eyes for troubleshooting.

Of course I do. I gave you a significant amount of detailed information about the problem. And I'm willing to try anything that seems PLAUSIBLE to me.


Sterling_Aug wrote:
If you refuse to try what we suggest, then many of the members will stop suggesting anything which gets you no where.

I do actually have some experience with PC's myself and thus I EVALUATE any suggestions that are made here to determine how plausible they are.
I'm under no obligation to try every suggestion that is made here, like a trained monkey.

If I think a suggestion is implausible, I give my reasons why, as I did in my prior posts. If the person I am responding to thinks I am wrong, he should GIVE SOUND REASONS for thinking so, which I will be happy to consider. In this way, we will all get closer to the truth, using rational analysis -- Which is the whole idea behind forums.

BTW, any members who would stop making suggestions simply because I don't think a particular suggestion is worth trying (and give valid reasons for thinking that way) doesn't have anything to contribute in the first place.
I want suggestions ONLY from people who can give SOUND REASONS for their suggestions.
Thanks everyone.

[bruceb]

If in fact, you truly believe it is not a hardware problem,
then you must do a repair install of the Windows 98SE
Operating system .... something must have gotten
corrupted either in the registry or by another program or
possibly a virus in the system.

At this point, I would lean towards a hardware problem.

[Ol'Tunzafun]

It seems like the primary controller is not being detected and that the driver is not being installed unless the secondary controller calls for it.
1) If you uninstall the busmaster controller again and enter BIOS on reboot, are the CD drives detected in the BIOS? What about on the second reboot?
2) If you again uninstall the busmaster controller, shut down the computer completely and unplug the IDE cable from the motherboard, will the exclamation mark reappear on the second reboot?

[Faith007]

Ol'Tunzafun wrote:
It seems like the primary controller is not being detected and that the driver is not being installed unless the secondary controller calls for it.

Can you explain how you came to that conclusion?
Doesn't the fact that the IDE Controller drivers are installed upon reboot and that the ! icon disappears and that I can see the 2 CD drive icons afterward demonstrate that the primary controller is indeed being detected? Or am I missing something? What did you mean by "unless the secondary controller calls for it"? Please be more specific.

Ol'Tunzafun wrote:
If you uninstall the busmaster controller again and enter BIOS on reboot, are the CD drives detected in the BIOS? What about on the second reboot?

I did this already a couple of times. The CD drives ARE indeed detected in the BIOS every time I reboot.

Thanks for your input.

[Faith007]

Ol'Tunzafun wrote:
If you again uninstall the busmaster controller, shut down the computer completely and unplug the IDE cable from the motherboard, will the exclamation mark reappear on the second reboot?

No. There were no error icons and both CD drive icons were there.