We can't alter ancient history but we can observe secretly and learn first-hand the real truth. Anyway, humanity is plagued with countless armed conflcits and I like to know the main reason. Is it greed, power, ambition or insanity that cause the humans to fight one another?
I still don't get it...
Give a man a fish
It will feed him for a day
Give a man a fishing rod
It will feed him forever
I would say its the human race's intolerance of groups that dont confom to its social values. In modern society, paticularly western society, theres a need to assimilate everything into it, its almost come to the point where non-conformists are looked down on and other cultures are feared, percieved as alien and by and large misunderstood
Is it greed, power, ambition or insanity that cause the humans to fight one another?
like some other who mentioned this, I would also have invested all my money in rising companies, bfore 9/11.
lol or id do this like in futureama.
have a dollar in the bank. freeze myself for 1000 years. come back and see that you have 2.4 billion dollars in your account. LOL
they say that our universe is continually expanding...
That’s your perception - not a reality from my point of view.
Originally posted by Bigjakkstaffa
paticularly western society, --Jakk
Others will blame “the west” for just about everything.
Money, greed, Power and religious fanatics are what drive so many horrible people to do what they do. I disagree that the west as a whole is responsible for changing the world. Capitalism and the lure of Religious, economical and personal freedoms are driving change. People with the most to fear, dictators, Evil oppressive regimes, Religious Terrorists are the ones who are “resistant” to change and freedom for very selfish reasons.
Our foreign policy may be inconsistent as hell do to the revolving politicians we have here in the US, but at least we are trying to make a difference. It is better than sitting on our corrupt useless butts like the UN.
There is too much to change really, by killing Hitler as a baby a void would open up to support another Hitler-like personally. That is not to say that I would ever pass up the opportunity to kill Hitler, Osama, Saddam, for starters.
I dont think western society in itself is actively or awarely doing the assimilating, i think that the west is, ATM a very scared, frightened place following recent events, and for this reason it needs to see everything in terms it can understand, i.e. its terms, hence the need to distinguish friend from foe, with, more often that not, those not conforming to western norms being shortlisted as foes.
As for within western society, well heck, nobody can deny the fact that you have to assimilate yourself with popular culture or become an outcast, you just have to read something like Fight Club or Suvivor to see the extent through which fashion, the mass media etc, turns people into that which they in all probability are not, another slave to what some dude on the front of a glossy magazine tells em to be. Im not mainstream by any stretch of the imagination, and because im not, it allows me to see the way in which the peopel of the west are becoming mindless slaves to and clones of, what television tells them to be. Of course this is percieved as normal as its a majority thing, but heck, id rather be abnormal than a mindless moneky who obsesses over other peoples opionons of him and cant do something for himself unless its already been aproved as 'fashionable'
Plus of course there is the natural human tendency to not like whats different to them, by and large thats the font of all inequality in society, be it racism or sexism as two high profile occurances. People do not like what they cant understand, never have done, never will done and as a result they will always try and turn that which they cannot understand/relate to into that which they can or try and make them an underclass
stop sucking up
Last edited by comp_nut; 08-22-2003 at 09:24 PM.
Does anyone know why Brazil and the Ukraine are building rockets?
ummmm, to get to the other side?
Originally posted by herosrest
Does anyone know why Brazil and the Ukraine are building rockets?
Hello. I'm newly registered to SysOpt, but have been aware of, and lurking around, the site, since the Wainner days. It's always interesting to see sociological commentary in an otherwise technical (well, most of the time, anyway - intel vs. amd, mac vs. pc, etc. - ) forum. Onto addressing Jakk's points:
"I would say its the human race's intolerance of groups that dont confom to its social values."
No argument there. There will always be groups who will find a rationale to exclude. Consider the practices and norms of the Wahabbi, Aryan Nation, etc. The point being that this behaviour is not unique to any one segment of civilization.
"In modern society, paticularly western society, theres a need to assimilate everything into it,..."
I think the above better reflects the state of western society in imperial/colonial times. Others within western society (check out these guys http://www.stormfront.org) would rather keep the outsider "out." The ironic thing is that these intolerant people are tolerated anyway.
"...its almost come to the point where non-conformists are looked down on..."
Actually, one could argue that Western society at this point in history is extremely tolerant of non-conformists. Imagine how an avid practitioner of piercing and heavy tattooing would be treated, say, 50 years ago. "Normal" people would think that the person was an escapee from a traveling freak show. These days, not many bat an eyelash at seeing someone thus decorated. Witness too the pervasiveness and acceptance of "performance art," which I generally view as courageous - but not necessarily artful. But hey, that's just me.
"...and other cultures are feared, percieved as alien and by and large misunderstood..."
Until September 11, 2001, not many people in the U.S. really paid too much attention to world affairs, and to the goings on in other cultures. The state of the economy was declining, but by and large, people were still coming off the high of the mid-late 90's. Certainly, the attack in 2000 on the USS Cole was an uncomfortable and tragic reminder that there were bad guys out there. But the horror index went up big time on 9/11. Undeniably, that action amplified the differences in values between the West and a radical segment of Islam. So to perceive that segment as alien and to my mind evil, is well justified.
"I dont think western society in itself is actively or awarely doing the assimilating, ..."
I'm glad you clarified the point. Having grown up in a Third World country (and a past totalitarian one to boot), I can state with some authority that if you give a poor rice farmer the choice between his trying to eke out a living in his native country or migrate to the U.S. or E.U., he'd very probably and gladly take his chances with the latter option. Western civilization is highly appealing, and therefore, highly envied.
"...i think that the west is, ATM a very scared, frightened place following recent events, and for this reason it needs to see everything in terms it can understand, i.e. its terms, hence the need to distinguish friend from foe,..."
I don't know about scared and frightened. I suggest wary and (arguably) prepared. Threat recognition is important in wartime- and yes, we are at war.
"...with, more often that not, those not conforming to western norms being shortlisted as foes."
There's a solid reason for that: it's those differences in norm that drive one group to destroy the other. But realize that the United States did not nuke Mecca at the height of the Hajj. Freedom to practice whatever religion has always been a tenet of this country. Given the choice between what's out there and Western norms, I choose the latter. Interesting reading here: http://www2.ucsc.edu/cgirs/publications/wp/wp99-1.pdf
"As for within western society, well heck, nobody can deny the fact that you have to assimilate yourself with popular culture or become an outcast, you just have to read something like Fight Club or Suvivor to see the extent through which fashion, the mass media etc, turns people into that which they in all probability are not, another slave to what some dude on the front of a glossy magazine tells em to be..."
Never read/saw Fight Club, never watched Survivor. On the latter, I figure if people really wanted to see a real life, balls-to-the-wall adventure, they should follow the Raid Galuoise or the BOC Challenge.
But that's the beauty and appeal of Western civilization, especially at this point in history. Surely there's some controversy here and there (e.g., gay marriages), but by and large, you can be you. Some people, whom you characterize as being slaves to fashion, pop-culture, or whatever, choose to be sheep. Others, such as yourself, choose not to be, probably because you have better critical skills than most. On the other hand, let's be careful about classifying people into sheep/wolves, sophisticates/unsophisticates, enlightened/ignoramuses, wired/unwired. That path can lead to the very human tendency of intolerance and exclusion.
Last edited by rusty4x4; 08-22-2003 at 11:13 PM.
Lurking AND Long-Winded, awer-some
"Save us Booze, show us the way!"
Heck, why not? I want to build a rocket! Truth to tell, I don't know if it's too much of a stretch for the Ukrainians - since a bunch of Soviet ICBMs were in their territory anyway. As far as the Brazilians are concerned, good for them. I hope whatever (hopefully peaceful) new industry grows, or economic benefit is derived, breaks the cycle of poverty in that country.
Last edited by rusty4x4; 08-22-2003 at 11:14 PM.
I've posted over 200 times in this dang forum and my post counter still doesn't move.
Actually, I'd like to go in the past and see if Atlantis did exist, and if it was whether the way Plato described it or Cayce described it.
I'd also like to see Helen of Troy and Cleopatra and take a picture of them then send it back to our times.
I'd also like to go back and see Jesus and how great he actually was.
I'd also like to witness the battle of marathon and the gladiator battles in the colleseum.
I'd also like to visit Albert Einstein and have a 30 minute discussion with him.
I'd also like to visit my ancestors.
Posts to the Sysopt.Community Forum do not count towards your Post-counter, as any jimmy can come in here and post quack comments, the real points come from offering technical advice and discussions in the other forums here at Sysopt.
Afterall, its Sysopt "System Optimization" not "Idle Chatter"
"Save us Booze, show us the way!"