are we really that bad?

[Dracas]

Touche. Perhaps you're right, I shouldn't defend myself, that would be wrong in todays world. Everyone knows they are right and I am explicitly wrong, huh? Of course, you're righter then the person to the right of you, I'd say, but the person to the left of you could be right too. Maybe the guy down the hall way is just a bit too right, and then again, maybe you're just a bit too left.

No one wants to know the truth of their actions anyhow, so eh

There you are, true to the american way, "Out of sight, out of mind"

So was there an issue to begin with? Happy posting.

[germanjulian]

well it seems the americans dont care about their stupid politicians
especially Bush, he is the worst president ever, he cant even talk and he lost america $48 billion in his time, he is war hungry (well the oil companies are which fund his campains)
and he said this

"There ought to be limits to freedom"

(he said this about a website that critizised him, taking away human rights now are we?

I MEAN HELLOOOOOOOOO do you really vote somebody like this?

[gibsinep]

Dracas- Do you have no appreciation for what you have?

Think of the millions that died for you to be able to put up your comments here.

How can you be so ungreatful?

[Strawbs]

Originally posted by Billforce
... the greatest nation in the history of the world, ...

I believe that here-in lies the problem, a little too much self belief sometimes shows inself in the posts here! No-one is saying that America isn't great, but this stretches the point a little bit, don't you think?

whilst there is no harm in being patriotic... and as a Citizen, it is one's duty to be patriotic, There is a fine line between being Patriotic and being Arrogant. Is America Really greater than Rome was, or Brittania, or Egypt, or Atlantis, etc. If you answer Yes, explain how you can possibly know this to be fact, and while you're at it, can you fill in all the blanks that science couldn't find an answer to yet? Please!!!

This is not a personal attack on the poster, cause I've seen this kind of declaration posted here before, and while it doesn't really grate with me, I can understand where some of the hostility toward America may come from. This kind of comment doesn't help any! These are the "Delusions of Grandeur" I spoke of earlier.

[maje87c]

Dracas, I'm not claiming to have the right answers, but you are. We have the right to our opinions as do you. At least respect our opinions, however ignorant they may seem to you.

Holding back takes a lot more willpower than to let loose. And less people would be yelling at you if you'd held back from the beginning.

but since we're all ignorant, you probably knew that.

[BargainBin]

Bovon,

Many, many posts ago.. I erred, you nailed me, and I want to square with you.

I said something like this, "Saddam Hussein didn't blow the two skyscrapers out of the sky in New York. Osama Bin Laden planned it, executed it, and was the brains behind it."

I don't know that, what I should have said was maybe something like, "Saddam didn't do it ALONE, Osama didn't do it ALONE. Those who CARRIED OUT the destruction plan are DEAD. In the 6 months following the attack, I was led to believe by the press AND/OR the U.S. Gov't Intelligence that Osama's involvement was PRIMARY and foremost among the suspects."

It seems as though the focus has now shifted to Saddam for whatever reason.

Fair enough, Bovon?

[BadBadNeil]

Originally posted by Strawbs
I believe that here-in lies the problem, a little too much self belief sometimes shows inself in the posts here! No-one is saying that America isn't great, but this stretches the point a little bit, don't you think?

whilst there is no harm in being patriotic... and as a Citizen, it is one's duty to be patriotic, There is a fine line between being Patriotic and being Arrogant. Is America Really greater than Rome was, or Brittania, or Egypt, or Atlantis, etc. If you answer Yes, explain how you can possibly know this to be fact, and while you're at it, can you fill in all the blanks that science couldn't find an answer to yet? Please!!!

This is not a personal attack on the poster, cause I've seen this kind of declaration posted here before, and while it doesn't really grate with me, I can understand where some of the hostility toward America may come from. This kind of comment doesn't help any! These are the "Delusions of Grandeur" I spoke of earlier.

Its hard to say its the greatest of all time as its really impossible to compare acurately. However greatest of current day I have to say is a sure win due to its lead in science, space travel, technology, military, economy, government, schooling, healthcare, income, entertainment, media, diversity, and thats not including the billions of aid and healthcare to other countries. Also a big factor is immigration. There are MILLIONS of people trying to get in the United States every day, from Mexico, Canada, and countless other countries for one reason or another. Great civilizations had a culture that attracted people to their country.

The reason it is hard to base is difference in time and some of these factors just didn't exist back then and much of the world wasn't in contact at these times along with travel and telecomunication being extremely limited. The world was also much smaller at the time as many countries not even existing yet in the times of the romans and egyptians.

Today is a much more trying time because of how connected the world really is and all the politics between everything and the severe dangers there are nowadays in the world compared to the past.

Empires don't exist as they used to by conquering neighbors and simply adding land. The biggest country isnt necessarily the most powerful anymore, or neither is the one with the most people. Not being arogant here, as everyone in the world seems to call us, just pointing out the factors that I see making the US a great civilization and high in the rankings of all time civilizations. Remember the earth is still quite young and I'm sure the next great civilization will be saying the same things in the future.

[danee]

Originally posted by ShawnD1
well actually the kurds tried to revolt several years ago with the promise of US air support. once the revolt started, the US backed out and the people revolting all got slaughtered.

The war is exactly what you said it is, just a diversion from the state at home. Oil is a secondary thing but i don't personaly think it's the main idea. The current situation has absolutely nothing to do with taking Saddam out of power because of his "threat to freedom".... the US military had the chance to do that over 10 years ago but the government made the call for the military to not take him out. Saddam's been doing the same stuff for several years before and after the first Gulf War so think to yourself "why now?"; because it's the start of a recession.

Shawn.... Brilliant.
The little known fact about the Kurds trying to revolt against Sadam occured years before the original Gulf War. It ended with the US backing Sadam, and supplying military equipment to supress any popular movement away from the status quo.

Even bigger question...
O'l Georgie Boy keeps shouting and ranting about his "EVIDENCE" that Iraq has WMD's...
I have 1 question - Where is this "EVIDENCE" ?

Tony Blair tried a similiar tactic back with his 'dossier' on the subject of Iraq. For those who actually fully read the dossier, Tony's evidence was: "I personally feel, from the bottom of my heart, that Sadam has WMD's."
The evidence he took to the British Parliment was; his personal feeling was, that they may "possibly" have weapons.

[Dracas]

Originally posted by gibsinep
Dracas- Do you have no appreciation for what you have?

Think of the millions that died for you to be able to put up your comments here.

How can you be so ungreatful?

For what I have, I have had since I breathed. For what happened before then, I was not alive to control. I am greatful for the men of ages whom fought for freedom. I am sad for ages, for the men who were forced from here when we came. I live and walk and breath on the soil of the free, where freedom is written in law, and law is based around a single religion.

I am grateful for my own freedoms, but sad for those we took from others. We call ourselves human beings, but we are not humane. For me, I live here, I reap the fruits of my labors, provided precariously to me across years of desencion.

But Even as I live an breath we push our vows, our virtues and arrogance, on other people, other nations, other people we call human.

And in the process, we are the most inhumane.

[danee]

Originally posted by BadBadNeil
Its hard to say its the greatest of all time as its really impossible to compare acurately. However greatest of current day I have to say is a sure win due to its lead in science, space travel, technology, military, economy, government, schooling, healthcare, income, entertainment, media, diversity, and thats not including the billions of aid and healthcare to other countries. Also a big factor is immigration. There are MILLIONS of people trying to get in the United States every day, from Mexico, Canada, and countless other countries for one reason or another. Great civilizations had a culture that attracted people to their country.

Sorry,.. but i think Australia's much better.
We get the refugee's from Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Palestine, N & S Korea, China.. etc.
You see, they love Aust. that much, that after Australia assists the US in destroying their own country, they become refugee's and "try" to gain "refugee status" here. Unfortunately for them though.. they arrive in Australia, are placed in detention centre's for 4yrs, until the paperwork catches up & at which stage we ship back to their own country to get killed, by the very government they were trying to escape in the first place.
Inventions... what other civilization can lay claim to having invented the 'clothes line' (a.k.a: Hills Hoist) - what is aruably one of the most important inventions in History... up there in importance next to the wheel.
Media... well im glad you didnt say media and diversity together. But Aussie media... the entire spectrum of news/tv/radio being nearlly owned by 2 men: Murdoch & Kerry Packer... what better way to get a trully "free" opinion.
Military... behold the GIANT that is the Australian Navy with her (approx) 12 ships - the entire navy.
Schooling... the brilliance of Higher Education (University) in australia. Free education is a thing of the past, with most universitys making offical statements as to the intention to focus on getting students from other countries (like the Asian region) - simple reason: overseas students have to pay full fees up front.
Higher Education is now made available to you, only as a commodity available to the rich.

Geez i love Australia...

[Dracas]

Here-Here Danee! I have some good friends down in Australia and New Zealand, it sounds like a fine place in my opinion. Granted no land is free totally of war and strife, I've heard as much good of Australia and NZ as I have of Canada

[danee]

Originally posted by Dracas
But Even as I live an breath we push our vows, our virtues and arrogance, on other people, other nations, other people we call human.

And in the process, we are the most inhumane.

Ahh... speak the truth.

We pride ourselves on our society, and the fact that we live in a (imperialistic) Capitalistic neo-democratic society, with all these "apparent freedoms"...
yet do we even stop to look at the results, of the fruits of our labour. Do we ever look at the destruction of the Amazon rain forest, to further the energy hungry needs of the people, which are being (mis)guided by Tryant Imperalist Capitalistic leaders.

Outside of this...
Its good to see some aware of the Australian home-grown evil...
inhumane treatment of asylm seekers.
If you want a really good example, do some research on what is known as "the Children overboard affair", and its relationship with the Aussie media, Navy, and the Aust. government.

Personal thought... I suppose alot of people say im out to attack the United States. I see it more as, im trying to educate (some) american people as to horrors which are actually occuring in their country. If i ever feel this is somewhat "fulfilled",.. then i intened to start educating the people as to the horrors from where i come from - Australia.

[danee]

Originally posted by ShawnD1
Aus > Canada

The only thing about Australia that really scares me is all the stuff that can kill you. There's more things in Australia that will kill you than you can shake a stick at!

Its not that bad...
I mean we do have a very large range of:
snakes,spiders, lizards, crocdiles, scorpions etc..
but it all adds up to the 'beauty' of the great Australian outback.

try getting kicked or puched by a 6ft Male Kangaroo - that hurts. Its more likely this will happen, over getting bitten by a dangerous snake or spider in the aussie outback.

[Billforce]

Originally posted by Billforce
I am especially jaundiced by foreigners who try to tell the greatest nation in the history of the world, how to run their affairs, whether or not it directly effects them or their country. I always want to ask, what in the h*ll is your overwhelming credential.
[/B]

I repeat, mend your own fences before you attempt to correct the flaws of others.To be really specific, mind your own F***ing business.

[BadBadNeil]

Originally posted by danee

Do we ever look at the destruction of the Amazon rain forest, to further the energy hungry needs of the people, which are being (mis)guided by Tryant Imperalist Capitalistic leaders.

I'm trying to figure this part out. What capatalistic leader is detroying rainforests? Last time I checked there were no rainforests in any major capitalistic country.

It should be up to the countries that have the rainforests to protect them not other countries. I think its about time that countries learn to take care of their own problems.