when is the fifth ammendment good?

[ShawnD1]

i can't think of anything good that the fifth ammendment actually does here

in low case files where there is a jury and a defendant is asked something like "were you there the night of the murder" and the guy replies "i plead the fifth", the jury would pretty much take that as being "yes i was there, i'm guilty beyond belief" and a conviction would reflect it.

now if we look at high profile cases like Enron or the mafia especialy, we see fat cats who do all sorts of crimes always pleading the fifth and getting away innocent because the government allows them to not tell the truth (not telling the truth and lying are very different, keep that in mind). high class cases are usualy featured on TV and in newspapers as well so if the defendant was found guilty on little more than saying "i plead the fifth", there would be riots about how corrupt the system is because you can be convicted based not on what you did but what you did not say you did. in the end, doesn't it just protect the guilty and not do anything for the maybe_guilty?

am i wrong here?

[tony_j15]

When our Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution, I don't think they expected people to so immorally use it. They included it because of freedom of speech. and not to speak.

[Bovon]

I think you are probably right Tony...but, to say a person is guilty beyond doubt because he/she invokes the 5th ammendment is a stretch. There are many reasons someone will need to invoke the 5th, one that comes to mind is military or national secrets. Once a person has answered any questions, he/she cannot backup and claim the 5th on some later questions that could do damage elsewhere. I will agree however that the 5th ammendment is used many times to assist a criminal cover his/her tracks...but I would rather have the 5th available and let some criminal go, than force someone to spill his guts, which may harm many more in the process.

[j.m@talk]

when is the fifth ammendment good?

Umm Now maybe

[ShawnD1]

lol, did you please the fifth on my answer? ANSWER ME!!!

[j.m@talk]

May explain with the greatest latitude, that due to an upturn in down trends this is a grey area for me

[user0209]

Originally posted by Bovon
which may harm many more in the process.

if "many more" aren't guilty in the first place, they wouldn't be scared of being harmed.

[j.m@talk]

Originally posted by user0209


if "many more" aren't guilty in the first place, they wouldn't be scared of being harmed.

I wish it was that simple..........

[ShawnD1]

talk is right. in high some large scale things like investigations on murders that are being viewed by the media can turn extremely corrupt. the police, in an attemtp to not look incompitant (i'm not saying that they are, they just want to assure that they are not), they will attempt to find a scapegoat to place the blame on. they'll usualy look at a guy that nobody in the community really likes, or a guy with some past offenses of something. sometimes its pinned on hobos and drifters even.

seen that stuff on TV where guys are held until police make them confess? there was a thing about that on TV about a month ago.. i think it was on A&E. one case was so bad that a guy was convicted for the murder of some women then a few months later, this woman just suddenly turned up ALIVE and had no idea that people thought she was dead.

[alivin]

If in doubt say nothing, it works in all forms of societal interactions.And it doesnt give the prosecutor anything embarrasing to read outload in court.
Just ask for a lawyer over and over again.
Thats what the fifth means to me.

Oh and never, ever, give permission to a member of the Police to search anything.That rules out illegal searchs.
But we never do anything wrong so these things never happen to us do they ?

[NJEnviroguy]

Most times when the defendent is involved or supposedly involved with organized crime a lot of liberties are "removed" or the conditions to say "plead the 5th" have limitations I think under whats called the RICO act (Been a while since criminology class).

I copied the part of the 5th amenment that I think is pertinent to this:
"nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself"

It applies to both being a witness at your own trial or that of someone else. Either way, a prosecutor cannot, if you invoke your rights, lead you to be self-incriminating. The prosecution must prove beyond the defendent themselves that the defendent infact did commit the crime.

A good example of the intended use of the 5th for instance, came in the McCarthy era, when asked if one was a "communist" many used the fifth amendment because the question was provocation itself and to expound upon that would most defineatly make it worse for the defendent.

[TARP2]

ShawnD1, an example where it might help you:

You witnessed a robbery and murder of a gas station attendant, from a distance, say, across the street.
You are later identified as a witness to the crime and called to testify. Unfortunately for you, at that same time, you were smoking pot and stealing a spare tire from a car.
The defense for the murderer will ask what you were doingthere among other things. Now you have a choice if you havent been offered immunity.
Lie(perjury)-a crime.
Tell truth-Maybe be charged with crimes.
Take the fifth.

What would you do?

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by alivin
Oh and never, ever, give permission to a member of the Police to search anything.That rules out illegal searchs.
But we never do anything wrong so these things never happen to us do they ?

i learned that from All In The Family. a guy tried to rob Archie at gun point but Archie managed to spray the robber's face with pepper spray and call the police. the robber got away free because he was not read his right in spanish but Archie was in a trial for having pepper spray without a license (maybe they were required in new york at the time). Archie was let free on the basis that the investigater just started snooping around the house instead of asking

great example TARP, i now know

[herosrest]

______________________when is the fifth ammendment good?

Possibly - it's when one fail's the preceding four ammendment's.


_______

[NJEnviroguy]

Originally posted by alivin

Oh and never, ever, give permission to a member of the Police to search anything.That rules out illegal searchs.
But we never do anything wrong so these things never happen to us do they ?

Not unless an officer has probable cause. For instance, that whole debate about searches through cars if it considered property (i.e, need a warant) was ruled down b/c if a cop witnesses suspicious behavior he/she can enter and search the premises. Its not an open invitation, b/c if the cop doesn't find anything then he/she is up **** Creek.