Hi was wondering if you may help with a suggestion.

[odumok]

Hi everyone /wave

First time poster here found your wonderful website last night.


I hope you dont mind if i ask a "newbie" question. My pc knowledge/skill is extremly low.

My question is im Intrested in Buying a new 3D card ( range:$200-$260max and was wondering if you can offer any suggestions/must-buy/tips for me and my pc system since i have no clue whats good with what.

my specs:PC

Manufacturer: AMD
Family: Athlon(tm)
Internal Clock: 752 MHz
Internal Clock Maximum: 752 MHz
External Clock: 100 MHz
Socket Designation: SLOT 1
Type: <unknown>
Upgrade: Slot 1
Capabilities: MMX, CMov, RDTSC, 3DNow!, Extended 3DNow!
Version: AMD-K7

512mb ram
Win 98 second edition
26.8 gb harddrive
Ep-7kxa mother board-

"http://www.epox.com/html/english/products/motherboard/ep-7kxa.htm " <-- ( came with pc not 100% sure )

Nvidia Geforce 2 mx/mx400 32 ram
Via audio control Sound card ( came with pc not 100% sure )



"trying" to upgrade my Pc so it may run/ look/sound good for Dungeon siege/ max payne / Medal of honor future games etc.

Thank you for your time and help toward this super Newbie.
/wave
/thank

[BipolarBill]

Your PC can accept virtually any AGP card. The new GeForce4 4200 will cost about $200 and do anything you want it to, pretty much. You could also use any GeForce3 Ti card and save some money. If, however, you are budgeted for that amount, you owe it to yourself to get the 4200. It's a killer.

Wait a few weeks for the GF4 4200. If you can't wait, you can get a 4400 for about $280+ tax:

http://www.visiontek.com/g4_ti44.shtml

[odumok]

Is the Geforce 4 ti4400 Far better then the
Geforce 4 ti4200 ?

If not might you know a website i can purchase a visiontek xtasy geforce 4 ti4200 from ?

[BobyJo]

The better buy will be the Radeon 8500 (275/275) retail boxed card from MWave.com this card is going on this site for $155.00 down form $299.95. This is 50% off msrp.
This card will do anything any GF card will do, and the visual (what you see on the screen) is so much better than the nVidia cards.
This is of cource my opionion and the *** {EDIT} Please respect other opinions. ND - Moderator {EDIT} *** will jump all over this post. Probably start throwing rocks and yelling etc.
I would advise looking at the features of the Radeon 8500 (retail boxed)
The original card or even the "NEW" R8500 by Gigabyte, or Hercules. Any of these video cards is an excellent choice.
The Gigabyte and Hercules cards will cost in the area of $260.00. The ATI card I suggested (original) is built by ATI. NOT powered by.

[BipolarBill]

While ATI cards are very good, the 8500 is a generation behind the GeForce 4 in performance. You can read all about the GeForce 4 at:

www.tomshardware.com
www.sharkyextreme.com
www.anandtech.com

The ATI cards have some pretty bad driver problems lately too and do not always work well on older systems.

ATI is relatively new to the 3D game, if not graphics cards. nVidia smote 3Dfx and bought the cinders. That should tell you how well they do 3D.

If anyone seems biased, it is BobyJo.

[shark_megabyte]

"NVidiots," hmm?

Well if an NVidiot is someone who can be trusted not to buy a 3d accelerator card just on the basis of magazine ads featuring headless tattooed bikini chicks, then I'm proud to wear that label

[BobyJo]

shark_megabyte:::No I do not mean what you are refeing. I am refering to anything that just buys a vid card "cause everyone has this one" or "I heard that this is the best" or "Gee I don't know, do you know what I need to get?"

I am talking about people like Bipolarbill::you are a true *** {EDIT} "Calling names" is not allowed. Not here. ND - Moderator {EDIT} ***

Nothing is as good as nVidia stuff. All you have to say to anyone is the same old stuff. OVER & OVER.

[BipolarBill]

Nothing is as good as nVidia stuff. All you have to say to anyone is the same old stuff. OVER & OVER.

That's because it's true.

Listen, *** {EDIT} "Calling names" is not allowed. Not here. It works for you too, BipolarBill. ND - Moderator {EDIT} *** ...I'm ashamed that you hail from the same state as I do. Work on that spelling and punctuation and get back to me, ok?

Try not to be so negative all of the time, Mr. Sourgrapes...it's very ugly. We are patiently awaiting some helpful tips from you on how to get ATI cards to actually work for all of the poor souls who bought them.

[shark_megabyte]

Odumok, sorry about the arguing here. Some people are just annoying

www.newegg.com
and www.directron.com are both fine and reliable vendors (although like any store, not every product they sell is top-notch. it is up to you to choose the right thing to buy). Try looking with them for your video card needs. But, if you want something and they don't have it, try asking around some more.

[valachimus]

Um, back to the problem at hand.

I would wait for the GF4 ti4200. It's got all the goodies that the $400 gf4 ti4600 does, it's just clocked a little slower. And as anyone here can tell you, clock speed is subject to mild adjustment. So be patient and wait for the goodness that is GeForce4 ti4200.

[BipolarBill]

Originally posted by odumok
Is the Geforce 4 ti4400 Far better then the
Geforce 4 ti4200 ?
If not might you know a website i can purchase a visiontek xtasy geforce 4 ti4200 from ?

Be patient...it will be available in a few weeks and is worth the wait.

[BobyJo]

BpB::I seldome post anything negaive about anyone or anything. I believe that a person should buy what he or she wants. Without all the hassel of people as yourself.

In my opinion you *** {EDIT} "Calling names" is not allowed. Not here. Second Time. ND - Moderator {EDIT} *** big time.
I am ashamed that you live in the same state as me, but since I have been here much longer that you, That makes me senior and I ask that you go back whever you came from.

[Lycia]

Originally posted by BipolarBill
While ATI cards are very good, the 8500 is a generation behind the GeForce 4 in performance. You can read all about the GeForce 4 at:

www.tomshardware.com
www.sharkyextreme.com
www.anandtech.com

The ATI cards have some pretty bad driver problems lately too and do not always work well on older systems.

ATI is relatively new to the 3D game, if not graphics cards. nVidia smote 3Dfx and bought the cinders. That should tell you how well they do 3D.

If anyone seems biased, it is BobyJo.

WHAT? ATI relatively new to the 3d game??? ROFL..I'm sorry Bill, but you need to go back and check your info.

From Thresh's Firing Squad:

"3D Acceleration


ATI's First 3D Chip
ATI's first real foray into 3D graphics was the 3D Rage II. Though it was ATI's second 3D product, it was ATI's first to feature a hardware Z-Buffer. The chip had a fairly impressive feature list at the time including compressed textures, bilinear and trilinear filtering, and a good number of Direct3D texture blend modes. The pixel fillrate was in the teens (at best) and the approximated texture perspective correction algorithm was only marginally better than the Sony Playstation's.
As a "mainstream" chip, the Rage II only needed to compete against the S3 Virge and Matrox Mystique. The S3 Virge was even slower, and the Matrox Mystique did not even offer bilinear filtering or alpha blending. The Rage II gave ATI engineers a chance to dabble with 3D acceleration, but gamers looked to the Rendition Verite V1000 and 3dfx Voodoo Graphics for their real 3D needs. "


Notice the last line. The Rage II was a direct contemorary of the Orignal Voodoo Graphics..Doesn't that predate any TNT from nVidia?

Here is another quote from Firing Squad:

"ATI released the 3D Rage Pro in April of 1997. As one of the first AGP accelerators, the Rage Pro was a well-designed chip. The Rage Pro offered a fill rate of 45Mpixels/second (equal to the original 3dfx Voodoo Graphics), VQ texture compression, and a 1.2 M triangles/sec full triangle setup engine. The chip had single-pass trilinear filtering as well as a complete set of texture blending options. Unfortunately, the drivers severely limited the shipping product and the card was unable to overtake 3dfx's Voodoo Graphics. NVIDIA shipped the Riva128 later that year with a 100 Mpixels/sec fill rate and 5M polygon/sec setup engine, putting ATI even further behind. "

Notice the 3D Rage Pro Was released in April of 1997. Then further in the paragraph it states "nVidia shipped the Riva 128 later that year.." Again, ATI predates Nvidia.


Another quote: " The Rage128 GL was designed to go head to head with the RivaTNT and Voodoo2 and there it succeeded."


"ATI introduced its second-generation 3D chip, the 3D Rage II and the ImpacTV, a 800x600 VGA to TV encoder in 1996. "

"Fall 1997: The RIVA 128" "By the end of 1997, Dell, Gateway, and Micron were using RIVA 128 cards."


So how is ATI "relatively new to 3D"???

by the way, the article can be found here:
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/features/atihistory/

[richard_cocks]

I have in my hands a 3d rage II I jsut pulled out my dad's PC, I replaced it with a voodoo 3

Anyway, I would just like to fuel this argument by saying a) the Nvidia cards do generally outperform similarly priced ATI ones, but when ATI gets a good card out the door with good driver support I'll buy one, but at the moment, the support for Nvidia cards is so fundamentally better, it is much better to get an Nvidia card.

And NVidiots?? That is like hardcore Intel lovers saying that the hundreds screaming that the AMD chips can outperform the P4 chips whilst at lower MHz are just ppl jumping on the AMD bandwagon!!

I don't understand ppl like that, I personally have almost no company loyalty to things like that, I go with the best I can afford within my budget.


Anyway, yeah ATI have been around for years making vid card chipsets, but they just don't provide the support in terms of a constant driver release cycle, and I have known compatability.

Also the fact that NVidia don't manufacture cards means that the quality and price of the cards vary a lot, meaning you can find them cheap sometimes if you don't want to worry about cheap ram if you are not OCing it, etc.

If you wan't to get a new card money-no-problem, get a GF4ti4400, nothing can beat it at the moment, otherwise get the other GF4 (but definately NOT the MXs) or the GF3ti500 is still a good card.

[Lycia]

Originally posted by richard_cocks
I have in my hands a 3d rage II I jsut pulled out my dad's PC, I replaced it with a voodoo 3

Anyway, I would just like to fuel this argument by saying a) the Nvidia cards do generally outperform similarly priced ATI ones, but when ATI gets a good card out the door with good driver support I'll buy one, but at the moment, the support for Nvidia cards is so fundamentally better, it is much better to get an Nvidia card.

And NVidiots?? That is like hardcore Intel lovers saying that the hundreds screaming that the AMD chips can outperform the P4 chips whilst at lower MHz are just ppl jumping on the AMD bandwagon!!

I don't understand ppl like that, I personally have almost no company loyalty to things like that, I go with the best I can afford within my budget.


Anyway, yeah ATI have been around for years making vid card chipsets, but they just don't provide the support in terms of a constant driver release cycle, and I have known compatability.

Also the fact that NVidia don't manufacture cards means that the quality and price of the cards vary a lot, meaning you can find them cheap sometimes if you don't want to worry about cheap ram if you are not OCing it, etc.

If you wan't to get a new card money-no-problem, get a GF4ti4400, nothing can beat it at the moment, otherwise get the other GF4 (but definately NOT the MXs) or the GF3ti500 is still a good card.

I agree with most of what you say. However, your argument is based on old news. Yes, in the past ATI had bad drivers. Thats is fundementally wrong now. ATI is now making unified drivers. ATI has released at least 4 or 5 drivers since I bought my Radeon 7000. All the official drivers worked flawlessly in my AMD system with the exception of the beta drivers. You can no longer use the bad drivers argument agsint ATI becuase it is simple not true anymore.

Please come back when you have a valid argument against ATI.

Thank you