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-   -   Intel vs AMD: Whos Faster Now (http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108309)

merkus 06-17-2002 07:47 PM

sigh..people think mhz and ghz are everything, but aren't. all depends upon how they're made (architexture). FOOLS. AMD OWNS.

gibsinep 06-17-2002 08:44 PM

Yup , Ant that the truth merkus. Amd proves that point to a tee. Whil Intel needs an extreme amount of mhz to get up ther


( I know I know about both chip desingns and the 2 approches taken by the companies. Please dont take anything from this other than what it is meant.) :t

rlemieux 06-17-2002 08:46 PM

But the better performing chip is the 2.53 thats what he is asking. It does out perform the 2200+, but as said Mhz for Mhz AMD is a better performer.

Redhot 06-17-2002 08:55 PM

I agree it is not all Mhz and Ghz of the processors. But bandwith does play a huge role.
The P4b now runs at a bus speed of 533Mhz (133mhz Quad pumped) and is sure to give AMD a run for its money for now. Memory also has a huge impact to the overall performance of a system, wether the DDR of an AMD or the new RAMBUS--> PC1006 (maxbandwith 4.26GB/Sec) or DDR on an intel chip can outpreform eachother will eventually have huge impacts on comparasons.

BipolarBill 06-17-2002 09:07 PM

I know one thing for sure - AMD should seal the PCB on their CPUs. With nods to the unlockers, the bridges really love to suck in Arctic Silver and the CPU apparently dies as a result. I cannot save this 1900+. Thanks for RMAs!

merkus 06-17-2002 10:47 PM

Can I have your dead XP 1900? :(

:t

BipolarBill 06-18-2002 12:29 AM

Well, my RMA would be a wash without the old one. What would you do with it? :confused:

merkus 06-18-2002 12:59 AM

make a nice keychain out of it

:t

otheos 06-18-2002 01:51 AM

Quote:

really love to suck in Arctic Silver and the CPU apparently dies as a result
Artic silver is the worse thing you can use on a CPU. It's conductive and completely unstable. Benchmarks favour it, but it soon dries and completely reverses the effects as it cannot cope with the heat cycles and also strains the CPU with its anomalous behaviour. It needs to reaplly every 2-months because it looses all its properties. It is also a nightmare to clean as it tends to liquify at high temperatures, and finally the price is a joke. For the difference to the silicon based goo, you can get a better cooler anyway and have peace of mind. Unfortunately there is so much hype around AS that people get really offended whenever I post. AS has done a great PR job and have filled the web with "reviews". People think that because the can afford $7 for it, it's ok to buy it and don't realise that they pay about 500% more than the white stuff, that performs marginally worse but lasts for years. So don't use it, or if you do, don't complain. The thing is completely innappropriate for use near sensitive electronics. And if you think I'm full of it, I can acertain you that all the above comes from rigorous testing of AS when our collegues next door were looking cooling solution for some LEDs (cooled by peltiers and water coolers) and it's tested scientifically, not "reviewed" by some 18 year old at his mom's house.

Quote:

And it only voids your waranty if they know you overclocked.
So, you are a thief only if they catch you right? Good thinking, but you won't go far on this.

Quote:

(You can stop the fan for any new Celeron chip around 1-1.4 GHz, for example, and if system is not under load, it will run fine without the fan! Try this with ANY AMD XP chip? It'll burn in less than a coupla minutes, probably.)
That's why I said before stop reading tom's site because they spread FUD like no other, on behalf of whoever pays their bills (and this time it was intel). I can acertain you, that an XP can run witout fan (but with heatsink) for at least 36 hours without burning. So no the XP will NOT burn without a fan. Without a HS it will burm but I've never heard on a heatsing falling off. If yours did, sorry but it's your fault. As for which CPU can run without cooling without damage, you wouldn't drain your car's radiator and see if it worked, would you? So keep your "experiences" to yourself and learn how to put a HS properly on the CPU.

Quote:

If I buy Athlon, things become more difficult, as it is already like overclocked
It is? Oh maybe AMD is intel's spin off where they get rid of lower quality pentiums (oh sorry, those were left for the Celeron line, so image what were throwing at AMD). You're not serious are you?

Quote:

and its only problem is the narrow 100 MHz RAM bus; if you can live with that, then it's your chip.
That and the fact it's 5 years old design it's not even worth thinking about it. Oh and you usually need a new mobo, so it will be an upgrate (with a bright future I can add, you'll have to buy anew next again). The Duron was running circles around the Celeron (inc the Tualatin), was cheaper and has a valid upgrade path, but you chose to live with that in favour of what? price? performance? what? I wonder.

Quote:

The P4b now runs at a bus speed of 533Mhz (133mhz Quad pumped) and is sure to give AMD a run for its money for now.
It's all about CPU architecture. Remember the effect of Rambus on the P3? or DDR for that matter? None! It couldn't care less.

Now Remember the effect of PC133 on the P4 (yes those poor souls who were talked into 1700Mhz of intel power built by ***** (put your OEM manufacturer name there) using SDR to lower costs and selling price)?

The P4 starves for bandwidth. It needs it. The Athlon is not that sensitive although it should be said that at 166Mhz FSB the XP makes up most of the difference to the 2.53G P4 without increasing the clock speed. Also, it's a matter of marketing. Higher numbers sell for intel so they want them to sound high too.

ukulele 06-18-2002 03:04 AM

Quote:

Without a HS it will burm but I've never heard on a heatsing falling off. If yours did, sorry but it's your fault
I love your post otheos. I'm no dummy inspite of my reputation and I have gone with AMD for ten years now and haven't cooked one yet. OK one of you geniuses with a P4, yank the heat sink, crank it up and let's hear about your trouble free operation. You can even try it without overclocking. Let's just cut the BS, tell the truth, and then let's all kiss and make up. :-@

$1500-P4 gamer 06-18-2002 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by otheos
No, quality is not price in this case. The Athlon is just a very efficient design, while the P4 isn't. It costs intel at least 2x the price of one Athlon chip for one P4 chip, so no wonder you see differences. Think about it, the P4 is almost 2x the size (that's the chpi size not the packaging) and they are both made from same size waffers, so AMD gets almost 300 CPU's per waffer to 170 of intel. And that's without yields or other production costs.

As for the P2 K6-2 comparison, I have to say I never notived anything dramatic between the two, apart from the price difference. Only problem with the K6-2 was 3D gaming, but not everyone plays 3D games. It's ironc though to see intel following AMD's path with the limited fpu capability (like the K6-2) and AMD taking the long path of a full and powerfull FPU (rember, the benchmarks you see, mostly use SSE2, and not much else, other than the benchmark tools, use it).

Hey Otheos, better check again those are the old figures I believe. Intel is getting a WHOLE LOT more per wafer now on the new fab. process of .13. I saw the figures and I KNOW they were alot closer to 300 per wafer. I'm gonna look again I know its there on the mighty web just laying about.;)

$1500-P4 gamer 06-18-2002 04:23 AM

AS Bad????? Haha!
 
In defense of AS especially AS3 I have NEVER had a SINGLE prob. EVER with any of it. Dry up, nope not yet- and what liquid(gel) paste will not eventual dry out, uh none! As for electrically conductive they do make a non-conductive paste, when was the last time you looked into AS3 to have such a bad opinion. You should know the tech. you are slamming! As for a better thermal paste. YOU BET. It dropped my temp. almost 10c that is no lie. I did before and after testing MYSELF- so no it wasnt some 18 year old review, I dont buy hype I test things myself. And I will finish by saying AS is a fine product works great no prob.s drops temp as advertised and DOESNT dry out. And if you are worried about conductive paste then next time dont GOOP it on the chip! Applied properly it has no chance of ever hitting anything due to running especially since it sets up, not hardens- sets up . There is a Big BIg difference between the two.

End of rant!:rolleyes:

Big Head Bloke 06-18-2002 05:35 AM

Re: AS Bad????? Haha!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by $1500-P4 gamer
In defense of AS especially AS3 I have NEVER had a SINGLE prob. EVER with any of it. Dry up, nope not yet- and what liquid(gel) paste will not eventual dry out, uh none! As for electrically conductive they do make a non-conductive paste, when was the last time you looked into AS3 to have such a bad opinion. You should know the tech. you are slamming! As for a better thermal paste. YOU BET. It dropped my temp. almost 10c that is no lie. I did before and after testing MYSELF- so no it wasnt some 18 year old review, I dont buy hype I test things myself. And I will finish by saying AS is a fine product works great no prob.s drops temp as advertised and DOESNT dry out. And if you are worried about conductive paste then next time dont GOOP it on the chip! Applied properly it has no chance of ever hitting anything due to running especially since it sets up, not hardens- sets up . There is a Big BIg difference between the two.

End of rant!:rolleyes:

I have to with you there my friend, I have AS on my ATH-1.4 and it dropped my temp by about 8-9 degrees, so I slapped it under every heatsink in my PC and yes... it nice... as for drying up, well I donnu I'd better go check on that one cause I can neither back it up or slap it down. I'll check tonight and tell you.

As for my opinions on the little people, understand that my statement refered to little people meaning students who don't have the kinda cash us working lot do, who rely heavily on cheap high performing equipment produced by AMD. if Intel made their Celeron a little better I'm sure they'd go for it becuase it's Intel, correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Redhot 06-18-2002 05:55 AM

Otheos since you like quoting so much.....

Quote:

The P4b now runs at a bus speed of 533Mhz (133mhz Quad pumped) and is sure to give AMD a run for its money for now.
Quote:

The P4 starves for bandwidth. It needs it. The Athlon is not that sensitive although it should be said that at 166Mhz FSB the XP makes up most of the difference to the 2.53G P4 without increasing the clock speed
Right...... the new bus supporting the P4b chip (eg the 2.53Ghz) puts it on a level playing field with AMD, thats why bandwith avalibility plays a role when comparing performance between these two chips....... I'm not talking about chip artitecture.


Quote:

I agree it is not all Mhz and Ghz of the processors
Remember that????

Don't use my material or i'll copyright your ***!

otheos 06-18-2002 06:03 AM

The figures I'm quoting are for both companies .13 process on 200mm waffers. Soon they'll change both to 300mm waffers and things will get cheaper to make, but still...

As for my AS rant, all testing I have been witness of was done in our instrumentation lab, and when you try to cool something to -110C, the goo matters, and AS failed in two very crucial tests. It behaves anomalously in heat cycles and after some time it becomes a britle solid with terrible heat transfer abilities. Second, it is conductive and you cannot have conductive paste on sensitive electronic equipment. As for applying it thinly etc, trust me it was done right. As for performance it offered only 3C in room temperature, but less than 1C in -110C.

/rant


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