Political...

[danee]

So... does anyone here think that George W Bush is doing a good job ?

Everyday i worry about what "evil" he is going to bring to the world.
I worry that the stupid pro-militant, religious, and un-educated man is trying to bring about another world war.... e.g looking towards Iran, Iraq and Nrth Korea.

And for those who dont think he's evil, and thats he actually protecting everything "good"... go back to school... as its always relative.

Evil, as a defenition, if you will, is only reative to your individual belief, ideology, or perscribed belief system.

[ironik311]

Just to be argumentative...

I wouldn't take any **** from terrorists either if I had the military machine of the US to back me up. Don't want a war? Too bad, terrorists made the first move... Bush either responds with force or rolls over and says "do it again, we won't respond".

Bush is sending a clear message to all the countries who support terrorism... Attack us and be punished. A leader of a country has the responsibility to protect its citizens. Name a better way to do it?

[danee]

Originally posted by ironik311
Just to be argumentative...

I wouldn't take any **** from terrorists either if I had the military machine of the US to back me up. Don't want a war? Too bad, terrorists made the first move... Bush either responds with force or rolls over and says "do it again, we won't respond".

Bush is sending a clear message to all the countries who support terrorism... Attack us and be punished. A leader of a country has the responsibility to protect its citizens. Name a better way to do it?

Just to be argumentative...
You cant acruately say that the terrorists made the first move...
especially if this is the result of US foreign policy, which has been at the heart of terrorism against the US

and with the message Bush is sending...
would this be related to the part about, not accepting any other belief/ideology system other than Western nationalistic Capitalism ?

Im not saying that i have a better solution,.. **** i dont even have any answers. Im just not up with the whole game of crushing belief systems in the name of freedom.

[Dirk Diggler]

George "Dubya" Bush is I suppose doing what he was elected to do, that is, make the U.S. a bigger, stronger, more dominant country than it is now.

If the only way to do this is to continue to escalate tensions throughout the world, then yes, he's doing a good job.

[slingshot]

I worry that the stupid pro-militant, religious, and un-educated man is trying to bring about another world war....

Are you an American? It sure doesn't sound like it!

If this statement is referring to G. Bush I would like to know how you feel about the leaders of other countries around the world!

ss

[sweet rose]

WHAT A POLICY .... !
REJECTING TERRORISM YET USING THE SAME HARSH WEAPON AGAINST OTHERS VICTIMS OF TALABAN..
THIS IS NOT FAIRRR

[Mnstry of Truth]

GWB is a moron, a war monger, to me he is on the same level as Saddam Hussein or OBL. They are all scum.

I am not fooled by pretty speeches and propaganda.

[slingshot]

MoT

That's funny because the good ol' USA is probably one of the few countries on this planet where you can say something like that freely!

And that my friend is what it's all about!

ss

[bigparsnip]

Yeah, but if your going to wage this "war on terrorism", what the f**k is america doing about the Northern Ireland conflict. There have been american moderaters over there for years, and there is definately a lot of terorists left out there, but GWB seems to have forgoten about them as they don't do anything in his country, and that is all he cares about.

Hypocrite.

[Bambuk]

bigparsnip

I agree with you, double standards also apply in case of Turkey (Kurds) and Macedonia (Albanians). Obviously, as long as you are considered an ally by the USA you can pull any **** and crimes against humanity and be portrayed as a victim.

And about speaking freely in America - our mass-media is definitely a world-leading brainwashing system, if you say something which contradicts the interests of government and industrial elites you just won't be heard. You ll be just considered a crazy communist. And they don't quote crazy communists on CNN.

[SOL]

I take it these were your feelings on Sept. 11th?


There are horrible conflicts in the world, Northern Ireland is one, and yes it has gone on too long.

However, the President has put his agenda as eliminating terrorists and the nations that harbor them, - which pose a threat to the security of the United States. He's president of the United States, not the Prime Minister of Great Britain.

I would expect ANY President, to react the same if Sept. 11th had happened on their watch. It, simply put, will not be tolerated. Period.

If you've got problems with it, you're lucky enough to live in a free country, voice your opinions, write letters to the editor, call talk radio, get people stirred up, and vote him out of office.

Sol

[Warthog]

Hey guys,

At another forum I frequent, there is a good read (http://www.techimo.com/forum/t12868.html), on this issue.
:)
Warthog

[sharder8]

Ah-h-h, Wart!!

Thanks a lot!!! :p

Geez, there goes the neighborhood again! ;)

Harder

[Mnstry of Truth]

Originally posted by slingshot
MoT

That's funny because the good ol' USA is probably one of the few countries on this planet where you can say something like that freely!

And that my friend is what it's all about!

ss

You must be kidding. That is not "what it's all about!". To put it very very simply, it's about the national interests of a country, that happen to lie outside it's borders. This somehow is enough for some people to justify what "good ol' USA" is doing out there, which can very easily be summed up with one word: farce.

[SOL]

So, - should I tell the folks I used to talk to daily, at Cantor Fitzgerald - that it's a farce?

You're entitled to your opinion, however misguided.


Sol

[Mnstry of Truth]

Yes, please let them know.

Thanks.

It's funny that you use the word 'misguided'. Judging by the goverment that currently boasts the worlds only super power you should know.

[Ed_S]

GWB seems to have forgoten about them as they don't do anything in his country, and that is all he cares about.

Look at that & think about it - he's an elected official of the United States government. Sworn to defend the United States. Elected by U.S. citizens. In charge of forces paid for with United States tax money.

He's doing the job WE hired him for. :D:D

I'll admit, I didn't vote for him, I voted against his opponent. (There IS a difference..)
Next time I'll be voting FOR him, the first time in years I've been in favor of a candidate rather than choosing the lesser evil!

[bigparsnip]

Originally posted by SOL
There are horrible conflicts in the world, Northern Ireland is one, and yes it has gone on too long.

However, the President has put his agenda as eliminating terrorists and the nations that harbor them, - which pose a threat to the security of the United States. He's president of the United States, not the Prime Minister of Great Britain.



SO if this only an american issue, why have there been more BRITISH groundtroops in the fighting in afganistan. Does this not help to show that our countries are supposed to be allies? That, we should take an inteest in each others problems, and not ignore anything that won't hurt us, from outside our countries boarders?

[Mnstry of Truth]

*

[SOL]

The WTC attack, was unprecedented. Had it happened in London, I think the result today would be the same.

It basically reads like this - we're the big guys on the block, we know that, and we try to be nice, we try and be tolerant. We've made mistakes, and I think we've learned from them. We'll probably make more - we're human, as are you. We're just stupid Americans.

You want to talk, we'll talk. You want foreign aid, you've got aid. You want to attack our warship in port, OK. But, if you want to fly airplanes laden with fuel into our buildings and kill thousands? - Well, then you will die. Do we look after our national interests? - Shouldn't we?

If there are others out there that support and harbor peoples that are bent on mass destruction - they will be stopped BEFORE they can act. They've been given the message, they can stop. But if they don't their time will come to an end.

Thats the way it is.

There was a time when Britain was under attack, we stood side-by-side with you. Afterwards, there was the Marshall plan, when we rebuilt Western Europe. I'm glad Britain is our ally. I talk almost daily with folks in Europe, and several of the them have relatives in the British armed forces. All have expressed their support to me.

Good day to you sir.

Sol

[Mnstry of Truth]

Why ignore he facts SOL ? Wishful thinking? Brain dead ?.

Why not stop aiding dictatoriships? It's simple, and easy to do. It would render people like Saddam Hussein weak and defeatable, by his own people.

Or maybe that doesnt fit it with the political agenda and can be shrugged of as 'misguided' again?.

[SOL]

Ok, let me follow your logic.

Iraq invades and occupies Kuwait. The world bands together, and ousts him.

Virtually unknown at the time, Osama Bin Laden is mortified that foreign troops (infidels) have set foot in his country, tho they were their to protect his - (ok, also to protect the west's oil supply - but make no mistake, to protect his country as well).

So, he makes it his life's mission to rid the world of us. There is no dictator involved here. Here IS a man who made his fortune because he was a distant relative of the Saudi royal family, and enjoyed lucrative construction contracts as such.

Over time, he changed his rhetoric some, but the fact that western troops were in his country was the reason.

fact are facts.

Should I now add a personal insult? - no, I don't think so.


SOL

[Mnstry of Truth]

Should I now add a personal insult? - no, I don't think so.

Yes why not?, to add some content in your posts?.

[SOL]

You may pontificate all you want about the horror the US brings to the world, about our mishappen policies. That doesn't really matter now.

What will happen now, is that these terrorist and the nations that harbor and support them, will be knocked to the ground. Will we get every last one - probably not - but state sponsored terrorism will end.

It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, that is what is going to happen.

[slingshot]

SOL

Attaboy!..:D

ss

[clubmed]

I fear GWB's approach will result in even more terrorism aimed at the USA. I fear too that there will be even more attacks like that of Sept/11th.

Two wrongs don't make a right. GWB will make many learn that the hard way, both his own people and other nations.

Throughout history certain politicians and leaders who had great power at their fingertips have shown that no matter how advanced a society becomes, we as humans will always revert to primitve methods when solving our problems, and we end up creating more and more problems.

Terrorism will not stop any time soon, simply because no one seems to be interested in fighting the causes, it's so much easier to fight the results and symptoms, unfortunately this is a fruitless path. It's been tried before by many nations, leaders and even empires.

Let the games begin...

[Gkntraining]

Well, first off I believe that George W. Bush is prob. a kind hearted full blooded American who will do anything to protect U.S.'s honor and dignity from anyone who threatened our soil and whole idealogy. But having the heart and intentions will get you so far, in my honest opinion i fully believe instead of a big hearted business man what we really need is an educated man who can think with brains quicker than he tries with his brauns. As for how George Bush has responded to the attack on 9/11 i am totally behind him..... but after the military actions what then???..... I also believe that the U.S. should've recognized the the great injustice Taliban has been commitin it's the citizens of Afgahnistan. I believe if we as a nation is will to intefere with such affairs as Korea and Vietnam which are 2 wars that we should have not fought we should have at least recognize real injustice amongst humanity in Afganistan and took actions way before we did. We are a nation who vows to stop the spread of the Communist government which on paper is not a evil entity like most people believe. It's just a form of government that has been plagued by power hungry leaders. What im tryin to say there is we need to start helping humanity and not tryin to help people based on how it will benefit us. There are people out there who is suffering but we ignore them because helping them won't help us out in anyway (ex. Taliban). And there are people out there fighting and we interfere because we will benifit in a way through trades of certian fossil fuels and other such economic standpoints(ex. middleeast). Don't get this whole post wrong though i am proud to be an American and proud to live in the best country in the world. But of course nothing and no one is perfect and I am just pointin out what i believe is wrong.......



my 2cents...

[Chooco]

just the opinions of a non American:

-People in the middle east have ALWAYS been crazy..... look back to the crusades.
-The common era problems in the middle east were unintentionaly started by the US when they anexed part of Palestine to give homes to jews fleeing Germany after WW2. The Israelis took over the Gaza Strip because they 'needed more land' which was moraly wrong because they were literaly just bulldozing houses of Palestinians. This hate from Israel invading into Palestine was directed at the US when US started to financialy back Israel's military to support the invasion.
-Although it may have been started by the US, the attack on the WTC was unjustified and i think that Bush's actions against this whole terrorism thing is a step forward. Good job Bush.

The US is screwed right now.... there will be a solution sooner or later but right now this is how i see it - if the US attacks all state founded terrorism, the propoganda from other countries will tell people that the US is just war mongering and more terrorists will sign up. If the US does nothing it just asks for another attack so ****....

If the US stops supporting Israel in the middle east it would cut down the hatred against the US significantly but not all of it....
You guys got full support from your little brother up north even though he's too small to fight and he just gets in the way (I apologize for how hurtin the Canadian force is in Afghanistan. We even had to bum a ride just to get there lol...... :()

At Anandtech, you get banned if you say anything against Israel. It's true.

[clubmed]

Originally posted by Chooco
just the opinions of a non American:-People in the middle east have ALWAYS been crazy..... look back to the crusades.

Looks like the opinion of a moron too. Did the people in the middle east ask for the Crusades ? Or was it a stupid ploy by Pope Urban to increase support and money for what at the time seemed to be the failing grip of the church on the poeple?.

Come back here when you do not want to insult and spread ideas that are as stupid as they are ignorant.

clubmed (100% Arab).

to the mods: excuse my reaction, but such comments deserve nothing else IMO

[Chooco]

clubmed, the islam guys started to systematically invade europe going east to west and the catholic countries of the time kicked their butts. the main thing is that the arabs attacked first.

[clubmed]

Originally posted by Chooco
clubmed, the islam guys started to systematically invade europe going east to west and the catholic countries of the time kicked their butts. the main thing is that the arabs attacked first.

I love the technical terminology you use ("...islam guys..."). You should go read, and work on your lack of education. You seem to repeat only what you may have heard in some Simpsons flick.

Pathetic.

[Steve R Jones]

Originally posted by clubmed


to the mods: excuse my reaction, but such comments deserve nothing else IMO

You are welcome to share ideas and maybe educate as you go along. But, lets not sling personal attacks against other members.

[clubmed]

Originally posted by Steve R Jones


You are welcome to share ideas and maybe educate as you go along. But, lets not sling personal attacks against other members.

Thankyou. Ill stop the personal attacks when others learn to choose their words carefully.

Unless of course you like a forum where members make such educated comments as this:

...People in the middle east have ALWAYS been crazy...

I know it's not a tragedy, but if you want to maintain a certain standard then comments such as the one above should be avoided.

my $0.02.

[Sir Percy Punch]

Originally posted by Chooco
The common era problems in the middle east were unintentionaly started by the US when they anexed part of Palestine to give homes to jews fleeing Germany after WW2.

If you are going to put forward an argument you should check your facts first.

[Chooco]

dude that DID happen. it's taken as fact, you can check any history book ever written.

[stylin19]

Chooco...Dude....u may want to go here to get the straight skinny:
Truman Library - Israel Timeline (http://www.trumanlibrary.org/israel/palestin.htm)

a really good starting place is the "Balfour Declaration" of 1917.
you can do the leg work on that yourself

[Chooco]

ok this is not related to the question but what was that 12 minute war or whatever about? what caused the jews and muslems (muslums?) to hate each other?

[clubmed]

Man go read and educate yourself chooco. At the moment your posts are a waste of space and time.

[Chooco]

and yours aren't? lol yeah sure.

[clubmed]

I was expecting a silly reaction like the one above from you. It is obvious that you have nothing to say chooco.

seriously, go read...

[Steve R Jones]

It really looks like this thread is going from "political” to personal. So don’t be surprised if and when it gets closed:)

[clubmed]

Its funny, but somehow thats how all these hot topics end. When all has been said.

:)

[bunkskunk]

Originally posted by Steve R Jones
It really looks like this thread is going from "political” to personal. So don’t be surprised if and when it gets closed:)

Please do close this...reading this garbage makes me want to shave my head with a cheese grater while chewing tin foil. Just a pile of pseudo-intellectual bs.