HSDRAM Performance Issue

[socalgal]

Hello Wizards, Geeks and Gurus http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

What specifically is the difference, if any, between PC150 HSDRAM that is 2-3-2 vs. 2-2-2?

I'm referring to Mushkin's ad which says,

"Low latency (2:3:2) at 150 MHz improves performance in high-end desktop publishing and graphics applications..."

The RAS to CAS Delay = 3

Is this better than 2-2-2?


Thanks http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 11-12-2000).]

[Roy]

Remember this (http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/Forum3/HTML/000176.html) ?

2-2-2 is faster than 2-3-2.

[AuraEdge]

I got a question.
Will this effect the performance at all (between 2-2-2 and 2-3-2) if your board doesnt let you do anything with the memory except set the CAS latency?
I have a KT7-RAID, and theres no choice for setting CAS to RAS delay.
Its still some slammin' RAM.
The PC133 2-2-2 stuff costs 20 bucks more than the PC150 2-3-2 stuff at mushkin as I write this...

[Ygor]

I saw this earlier but didn't answer because I wasn't sure what you would be comparing it to.

If there's a pc150 available at 222, that would be faster than pc150 at 232, obviously. If you're comparing it to pc133 at 222 it would be a matter of how well it overclocks, wouldn't it?

Some may make 150 w/o resorting to a cas 3 setting. That's if you are going to run at 150 fsb.

[socalgal]

Well... I guess we'll find out in another couple of days! I ordered the 2-pack and they're going into my BX6-2 as soon as they arrive.

http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Time to pump this puppy up... and they will be good for the future box, as well.

[Ygor]

May we ask what processor is going in there?

[socalgal]

Hi Roy

Ohhh yes... I remember that http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

That's what I figured. Thanks for verifying it for me! http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[socalgal]

Ygor - the same ol' processor I've been using for over a year - my trusty PIII 450 http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

Actually, while it's tempting to build a new screamer, my PIII is cruising along pretty good at 527 and I'm still happy with it.

But, it's been my theory for so long that I can't get past the 117fsb mark - with stability - because of the limitations of my PC100 RAM xxx-620-222 RAM (even set at CAS L 3) I just have to test it at this point, while RAM is so cheap.

[Mungla]

Social, I don't want to burst your bubble or anything, but I've heard bad things about the PC150 Mushkin. When your sticks arrive, benchmark them very well! From what I've heard, the PC133 High Performance Rev 2 sticks perform considerably better than the PC150. Why that is, I don't know. I've also heard stories that the HP sticks overclock higher, with lower latencies.

Me as an example, I have one stick of 128megs of the High Performance Rev2, with it currently running at 150fsb on a P3-700E. My Sisoft Sandra benchmarks are pushing these results:

ALU/Memory Bandwidth 462MB/s
FPU/Memory Bandwidth 515MB/s

[Ygor]

One other factor SoCal...

I have a BX6-2 as well, but just a P2-350. On the Abit board I could just manage 105 fsb for a short while, then crash.

My BX Master has taken it to 117 with stability, but still crashes if I leave it there very long. Most 350's just don't overclock well so I'm waiting to get a better processor.

I know Abit's reputation, but from my experience this msi is a better & more stable board.

[Ruahrc]

Help me out here:

I have 128MB PC133 CAS2 RAM. It runs great and stable at 133Mhz, CAS2. It wasn't brand-name, but it was high quality Athlon tested stuff.

Just curious, if I bought ultra-quality, Mushkin, or what ever brand name PC133 CAS2 RAM and ran it at 133MHz, CAS2, would it run any faster? Or is RAM RAM once you get it at the same settings?

Ruahrc

[Ygor]

You might feel more confident, but I don't think it's going to make any real difference unless you're going to overclock.

Even generic ram usually overclocks at least to a point.

[socalgal]

Mungla, thanks for your input. Indeed I will be benching them right away. I think with Mushkin's excellent customer service, if I have a problem, they would honor a return or replacement.

Something else I read about the PC150 HSDRAM here http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/mushkin_pc150/index2.shtml


Intel are currently working out whether or not they will use RAMBUS (800MHz RAM) or HSDRAM in their "soon to be" released chipsets such as the Intel Tualatin which should be based on a 200MHz bus, which in that case will use 200MHz SDRAM. I think, if Intel is smart they will use HSDRAM because it is much cheaper and more widely supported compared to RAMBUS.

Other chipset manufactures such as VIA and AMD will probably use a different kind of memory system called Quad Data Rate RAM (which is four times the speed of SDR RAM) which might be used for soon to be released AMD processors such as the Sledgehammer and Corvette, so if your an AMD man Mushkin's PC150 RAM probably won't interest you too much now I've said that.

Does anyone know about it not being compatible with AMD? I was 'thinking' of the new build being a T-Bird (still undecided) but, if this is the case... perhaps I *should* rethink and go for that PC133 High-Perf Rev2... (Athlon tested)

Ygor - the PC150 would be used in my current BX6-2 and also for the upgradability factor for the next new system, but considering the above, now I'm not so sure... I don't plan on pushing it too much higher because it's my main workstation, but I would like a little more OC-ability than I have now.

I want high-grade RAM that will work with either and both Intel or AMD.

[socalgal]

From some more 'fact-finding':

The PC150 HSDRAM isn't "incompatible", per se. It's the timing issues the "3" of the 2-3-2 is what needs to be taken into account on the AMD boards, e.g., the KT7 has 'word' memory settings in the BIOS, and those words, depending on the method/s of overclocking and their parameters, need to be set to the correct timing to work with these sticks, depending on each of the other settings. (I think I 've got that right...).

Anyway, since I (obviously) at this point don't have any working knowledge of the latest AMD systems, I called Mushkin and they're sending me the PC133 High Performance Rev 2 (at 2-2-2) and RMA'ing the PC150.

Thanks for the tip, Mungla. If you hadn't, I'd be ripping open the bag... hmmm I still might <g>

And, that's what I get for impulse buying!

Ruahrc.. it's a toss-up, luck-of-the-draw, really; I've heard of generic sticks that are great overclockers. And then there's my PC100 Mushkin 2-2-2 that won't go over 117Mhz - and it should, especially since they're a matched pair! For sure I'll be pushing the PC133 puppies right away this time.


http://sysopt.earthweb.com/reviews/sdram/

So, I guess I'll be reporting back on the OC-ability of the PC133 next time. (Hope this post doesn't brand me as too much an air-head http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif )

Oh, and Ygor, from what I could find there is no PC150 HSDRAM at 2-2-2 (or at least not yet), only 2-3-2. If there was 2-2-2, I would have surely gotten that.


[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 11-15-2000).]

[Ygor]

So ummm.... how is it going so far?

I felt that 133 cas 2 would be your best bet until 150 cas 2 is out, but am not as confident technically as I'd like to be. In other words, it was a feeling, not hard tech knowledge.

You're no air-head socal!

[socalgal]

Hi Ygor! Sorry, I forgot about this thread! Thanks for asking http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

Well, the PC150 arrived and after speaking with Mushkin, I did a RMA-exchange and got the Mushkin PC133 High Performance Rev 2 SDRAM (which arrived two days later w/ free shipping).

This RAM is fantastic! My old PC100 RAM was definitely the bottleneck as to why I couldn't get my PIII 450 (w/GlobalWin) past 117fsb (527MHz).

I installed the PC133 and set SoftBIOS to 133fsb and my PIII-450 went to 600Mhz without a hiccup! http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif I've since adjusted the BIOS.

/Me happy Socalgal http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif

I noticed there's another opinion on the HSDRAM compatibility/timing issue (see thread link below) but I'm really happy with my decision nonetheless.

http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/Forum10/HTML/000911.html

[Mungla]

Social, I'm interested, did Mushkin ever admit that their HSDRAM performs slower than their PC133 modules? I'd be very interested if they have performed benchmarks between the two.

Sounds like your enjoying the new RAM. As with any owner of Mushkin's PC133 HP RAM, I believe Mushkin has a winning product.

[Kev1]

Enhanced PC150 is fine. It will work with AMD/Via/Intel chipsets.

It is perfectly stable in all systems. Can do 222 up to 140 something I believe. Its better than most memory out there.

Only extreme overclockers keep bad mouthing the memory because of the Ras to Cas of 3
(232) at 150 mhz. Yes its not as fast as 222, but not by much. I doubt you would ever notice. At 133mhz 222, PC150 is as fast as Mushkin Rev2 pc133 at 222.

Personally, I hope everyone keeps badmouthing this memory so they give it away. I'll be more than happy to take it. There is no memory better than Enhanced, but thats my opinion. No, I'm not a salesperson.

Check out www.pc133memory.com (http://www.pc133memory.com)
Look under the Bulletin Board section.

[socalgal]

After reading the article in http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/mushkin_pc150/index.shtml , I became concerned because I wanted to (most likely) use that PC150 in my next build - whether Intel or AMD/VIA. (Not sure yet what my next build will be, but I want components that work in either system and with least hassle as possible.)

When I called Mushkin (800.569.1868) I spoke to Dorothy in Customer Service. She said there was an issue with the PC150 and AMD/VIA chipsets, that while it WOULD work, there was some kind of timing/issue with the RAS to CAS 3 and that some adjustments would have to be made, due to the "word" settings (see my post above).

Unfortunately, I didn't get into specific details of what those adjustments are.

But, I figured they're (Mushkin) in the business of selling RAM and they're telling me it won't work correctly and without a hassle, so I based my decision on that and the information contained in above-linked review.

It will be interesting to see how this one turns out. I really have no more info to impart re the HSDRAM than what I've already posted.


[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 11-25-2000).]

[socalgal]

Thanks for the link to www.pc133memory.com (http://www.pc133memory.com) , Kev1.

Looks to be an informative site.

[Kev1]

Well, she didn't tell you anything that wasn't true. As far as the settings go, she did not tell you anything other than normal procedure. And a RAS setting of 3 is not the end of the world.

I have yet to find one single post of the PC150 doing anything other than working very fast and very stable. I bought 2 sticks of 128 meg that I am running in a BX board at the moment, but will put into an AMD or Intel i815ep when I decide which way to go. I unfortunately bought the HSDRAM when it was $195 bucks, expecting it would rise in price. Well, after I bought it the memory market crashes ****-it! http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/frown.gif I am really pissed off about that but what can I do. Memory goes up and down like a commodity (such as oil).

I have yet to have a problem with this memory, and am sure no matter which way I go that it will continue to be trouble free (in both AMD or Intel chipsets). I think your choice of PC133 was also very good, as either that or the PC150 is excellent memory. I think that Enhanced and Mushkin (now one and the same) produce the highest quality memory available.

Finally, there is nothing wrong with the Enhanced PC150 HSDRAM. It is excellent memory that will work in any SDRAM based system, now and in the future.

However, now we must go out and buy DDR SDRAM. When will this ever end. I know, when we are broke and Bill Gates has all the money http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif... Bye for now.