Guess what??? We're all a bunch of idiots! read this

[Dputiger]

According to the latest issue of Smart Computing..."I paraphrase, but this is what it says."

"It's pointless, basically, for any user to attempt to build a computer on their own, as users are completely unable to get good hardware prices. OEMS build better computers than people can for thousands of dollars less."

Gee, I'm an idiot. I'm sure Compaq or Gateway would be happy to sell me a 1 Ghz Duron based around an ABIT-KT 7 RAID....for under $800 dollars. For $1100 or so I could've gotten a GeForce GTS in this system.

<sigh> Magazines are dopes sometimes.

[OPPAINTER]

I here you Dputiger

------------------
Abit KT7 Raid T-bird 950@1208,105x11.5, 2xIBM 75GXP 15g @ raid-0, 103b1 UL Bios, 2.07v,~23cto~45c,ALPHA PAL-6035
2x 128 Mushkin REV2
ELSA GeFORCE-2 GTS

[Thud]

Yes, I'm sure that I would have no upgradibility issues with (insert OEM builder name here) computers. I see now that the satisfaction I get from building what I want and choosing each component by hand is misguided. Boy, do I feel like a twit.

[Dputiger]

Actually, Thud, the article implies that while building is the only way to get what you want, you'll pay FAR more for the option, while OEM makers will be happy to customize your computer.

Anybody ever been the victim of OEM customization? You know <cough, cough> $90 for 32 Meg of RAM?

[jad1097]

That's funny I was told something similar by a local computer shop. Their price to customize a computer for me would have cost me a few hundred more!

[GroundZero3]

LMAO oh my god. give me a break.

JaYsin

[Ed_S]

They're not dopes when you think about it. After all, where does a magazine generate most of it's income from?? Advertising, of course!

And who buys the biggest ads??
Gateway, Micron, Dell....

[OuTpaTienT]

Well, granted their broad statement is laden with ignorance, you gotta understand to whom they target the writing. It's certainly not you or I because...well hell, because you or I could be writing for their magazine. The mags main audience now-a-days is in the range of novice user down to never-touched-a-computer-before-but-am-kinda-interested.

And I know I certainly don't want that segment of the population to attempt to build their own systems...in fact, I don't even want them to know it's possible. If they want me to share advice on a decent complete system, then fine...or if they want me to build them a custom system with upgadable paths and best bang for the buck, then fine.

But the last thing I want to do is try to get running someone else's failed attempt at building a rig. I know too many people that would be dangerous if they knew how "easy" it is to build your own.

Just like the sign in my auto mechanic's shop:

Pricing for labor
-----------------
$60/hr.
$70/hr. if you worked on it first
$80/hr. if you want to watch
$120/hr. if you want to help

...and in small print
($45/hr if you had it towed straight here and the first I hear your voice is when I call you to say it's fixed.)

[Beemers]

In reply to Dputiger

Anybody ever been the victim of OEM customization? You know <cough, cough> $90 for 32 Meg of RAM?

I have a Compaq with proprietary RAM 32 meg's for $240.00

No I didn't buy into it.

Cheers!

[sns]

The article is total **** regarding the thousands of $ but I have to agree the mark up on seperate items appears to be more compared to the 'total' package. I used to read every mag advert and drive about getting price lists and finally settled on a shop that was consistent with reasonable prices compared to others. When you get the price lists that have pc systems that are itemised by brand and size etc and compare them to the same shops price list for the individual components if you walked in off the street, it is often the same or sometimes $100-200 less to have them build the same 'customised' system. So from that I agree its hard to compete with oem products (as long as they are exactly the same as the item you were after) but only by $ not thousands. Oh yeah I'm talking about the noname brand pc's with brand name components not the likes of IBM, HP, Dell etc ok. The only problem with this is I tend to only need 1 or 2 components at a time or really want my system my way so I just pay the little bit extra. (parts must be where a lot of their money is, there are always heaps of people in the shop when I go in)

[Comtech]

I wanna know how much Comcrap, PB, HP, Emachine, and IBM PAID them to print that.

[voogru]

Yeah were all stupid! a 14 year old (like me) can put a better Pc together than Gateway or Dell. who cares about tech support i got sysopt and 2 computers so whether my new comp works or not Ill be able to get help!

Im goning to start buying parts for my new comp tomorrow!

AMD Athlon ThunderBird Socket A 1000Mhz ( 1 Ghz ) CPU
ABIT KT7-RAID KT133 4XAGP @200FSB UDMA/100
IBM DTLA307030 30 gig 7200 RPM ATA/100 Hard Drive
1.44 MB 3.5 inch Floppy Drive
Linkskey LKF-5100+ PCI 10/100 MB Network Card
Sound Blaster Live X-GAMER 5.1 Retail
860PXB Black ATX Medium Tower w/FortronSource ATX 2.01/300W UL
Pioneer DVD 16x40 Speed 256MB Mushkin PC133 Athlon Tested
Creative Labs 3D Blaster Annihilator 2 Ultra


Cooling:
GlobalWin FOP-38 Chipset cooler
Arctic Silver Grease-SC


Cables And Hardware
2 ATA66/100 Cable
Floppy Drive Cable


Total: $1687.47
Total without the video card: 1268.00

Muhahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by voogru (edited 11-09-2000).]

[OPPAINTER]

Ha voogru you would get a couple of cables with your Motherboard setup, so you can nock off about $15.00

[Dputiger]

Voogru

If your planning to OC that machine I'm not sure the T-bird 1 Ghz is your best call--apparently the T-bird's have limited headroom due to limited voltage adjustments. But hey--if you just want it to run like the wind, it'll do that just fine. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[OPPAINTER]

Dputiger Check out my T-bird


------------------
Abit KT7 Raid T-bird 950@1208,105x11.5, 2xIBM 75GXP 15g @ raid-0, 103b1 Uz Bios, 2.07v,~23cto~45c,ALPHA PAL-6035
2x 128 Mushkin REV2
ELSA GeFORCE-2 GTS

[johnqp]

I don't know what they're talking about. I have always been able to build my systems for several hundred $ less than the going market price, when I compare what's in mine to what's in theirs. The default parts they put in their computers tend to be like the part that I came across from a Packard Bell - a crappy 56K modem with an even more crappy 16 bit sound card all on one card! That's why the initial cost is cheaper but the computer ends up being more expensive in the long run. My parts are always OEM - just the part and an anti static bag (maybe a piece of paper outlining jumper selections etc.) Never buy stuff in a box!! It's always more expensive because of bonus software and manuals you don't need.
As for me, I'll stay "ignorant" and quietly giggle when people tell me their computer horror stories!!

[This message has been edited by johnqp (edited 11-09-2000).]

[neo_otyugh]

i have a guy i p;lay CounterStrike with who has an Alienware system that he paid $6000 for.
i got his specs and priced it out...i can build an identical system for $2800

[Richard_Cranium72]

I beg to differ on the OEM vs Retail boxes.

Well, in the case of CPU's and HD's anyway.

The CPU gets a 3 yr warranty.

The HD gets a cable worth more than the extra $7 bucks diff between the last IBM drive I bought.

This cable was the "good" one , the 40pin 80wire cable with double grounding to allow the ATA/100 speeds that the cheapo cables cannot attain..

my .02

DrVette

[Colonel Casio]

I agree that the custom builder will probably lose the economy of scale battle to OEMs! In the long run you are better off building your own because, unless you find an extremely rare instance of great customer support from the OEM, you will learn to be your own customer support by building & trouble shooting your computer.
That is what I have done. Build my own & be my own customer support, after the horrible experience I had with my first computer from Compaq & the clueless customer support from Compaq & Best Buy where I bought it.

[This message has been edited by Colonel Casio (edited 11-12-2000).]

[randy48]

OR...you can get the parts cheaper by filling out a form and getting your FEIN Federal Employer Identification number (no cost), apply for your state tax number and post a cash bond of oh $25 and buy your parts from the distributors, become your own OEM http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif Just waiting for the tax ID to come back http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[RanGer498]

randy can you send me this info( FEIN Federal Employer Identification number (no cost), apply for your state tax number and post a cash bond of oh $25) ...guess when i got my dell xrps pII400 at 2500 2years ago that was a better deal than the the price i paid for my overclocked athloncpu 700@1100/vos32heatsink with abitka7-100mobo and geforceII card with soundblaster platnum sound card and digital speakers and 19''sony monitorwitha hp rewriter and kenwood72x truezen cdrom witha 30gig hd with crucialpc133 256 cL2 and a digitaldoctor oh and my enermax450psu all under 2gees what a fool sholud have paid 3000 for a new dell and got some extra programs what a fool i am doohooo....

[Ed_S]

Randy, I'd watch it with the tax # if I were you.

At least here in Missouri, what it's really for is so that merchants do not pay sales tax on products bought for resale. The merchant legally assumes responsibilty for collecting tax from the retail cust, based on the retail price. Merchant is then responsible for sending it in TO the state.

I'm in wholesale auto parts & deal with this all the time. We were audited once & heavy fines were paid. Anything bought that is NOT for resale, you MUST pay the tax upon purchase!! Even if we use things already in stock on a co. vehicle, we pay it. Essentially buying it from ourselves.

I've had two customers go out of business over this recently. Had to sell their shops to pay the fines! One lost his house as well!

And they don't catch you right away, they let it ride until the interest is overwhelming. Seems like 5 years is about minimum, 10 is not uncommon.
=========

Hate to sound so "stuffy" over this, but a tax # can be big-time bad news if abused!!!!!
NOT worth the risk just to get a discount.

I don't understand why any supplier would insist upon a tax # just for discount purposes. anyway. We don't. If you buy ENOUGH, we give wholesale prices. If not, then that # isn't gonna get you squat. On the other hand, w/o a signed "Certificate of Resale" in our files, you WILL pay sales tax no matter HOW much you buy!!!

[jeana]

Oh boy, I better run off and shoot myself. I'm just too dumb to live... thinking I had saved hundreds of dollars by building a one-of-a-kind computer that was just what I wanted. Those receipts sure had me fooled.

ROFLMAO!

[ablang]

Woah Woah Woah! I think we're all forgetting one thing here. You guys all fail to factor in the cost of software... unless you guys all participate in some form of "borrowing". That's often one of the best reasons to buy a system (Dell or Gateway) is to get all the packaged software which would add up to almost $500 in some cases.

[Dputiger]

Ablang--

You have a good point. I admit, under the technical terms of the EULA, I engage in theft. Specifically, I have purchased Windows 98 SE, Office 97, etc, but run them on different machines.

However, while I am firmly against software piracy, I view this situation slightly differently. In this case I have purchased a product and am installing it only on my own personal machine(s). It is not distributed, sold, or marketed in any way.

So, in a sense, I'm 'borrowing' from myself.

[alondra]

when I had the "ranch" I had 2 cargo trailers, and one truck. I bought one licence and put it on the trailer I was using. I figure same thing with my bought and paid for copy of 98. I dont use more than one comp. at a time.

[Fingers]

I was reading down through the posts and was wondering "but what about the software". I was both pleased and disappointed to see that it was finally mentioned. Thanks ablang, for pointing this out. If you adhere to the letter of the law, then it would cost hundreds of dollars to equip the machine with a software package comparable to the OEM box.

[beachgoer764]

All I can say is, I enjoy building my own computer and getting what I want in it. I bought my mobo and cpu online. I have a friend that owns a computer shop and he told me it would have cost 125.00 more if I had bought the same thing through him. If you look right and hard you can get good name things cheaper then if you had it made for you. Just my opinion.

[Dputiger]

Though I feel its only fair to point this out:

Many OEMs give fairly worthless software packages. Microsoft Works, for example, is far, far inferior to Office (which OEMs tend to charge for anyway).

So what you're REALLY saving money on is the OS.

[johnqp]

Do you really think any of us are daft enough to go out and buy brand new software every time we build a new system? We just use what we already have (if it's for personal use as opposed to building systems for friends or others - in which case the friends or others are paying for the software)