AMD's New Offering Outperforms P4

[omeyehead]

Hmmm looks like Micron's convinced. Definitely a step to a wider marketplace.

[Surrea1]

Go AMD!:)

[hallam2003]

hehehe, any one figured up how much you would save with the AMD? I'm sure it's still quite a bit, even with the newest proc out.

[[shawn@localhost /home]#]

i can ballpark it in canadian dollars
Intel
-ASUS P4T-E INTEL® 850 CHIPSET PENTIUM® IV PGA478 M/B W/AUDIO
-INTEL® PENTIUM® IV PGA478 RETAIL P4 2.0 GHZ 400MHZ FSB (NO MEMORY)
$295.00
$690.00
$985.00 TOTAL

AMD
-ASUS A7M266 ATX (SOCKET A) AMD 761 CHIPSET (ATA 100) 2 * DDR SDRAM W/AUDIO $275.00
-AMD-OEM ATHLON XP 1800+ AXP1800DMT3C 1.53GHZ CPU SOCKET A
$275.00
$380.00
$655.00 TOTAL

$985.00
$655.00
$330.00 DIFFERENCE

notice that the Intel processor is RETAIL and the AMD is OEM and the AMD mobo has the number 266 in there somewhere, i heard there was somethin bad about that but im not sure what....

[Ranma]

"AMD's newest offering out-ignites and out-combusts P4"

From Pricewatch:
$386 Pentium 4 2.0GHz
$265 - Athlon XP 1900

Savings:
$121

- $30,000 (cost of fire damage)

= -$29,879

[[shawn@localhost /home]#]

cost of AMD suing you for bad publicity:
-your soul :LOL

AMD will only overheat if you are a f***ing retard

my friend has an Athlon T-bird 1.4ghz and it only has 1 FAN and he keeps the cover of the case on all the time and the computer running 24/7 yet the heat sync is cold to the touch

i swear you have to TRY to make it overheat......

[Jimstep]

I think the point Ranma is trying to make is what has been published on www.tomshardware.com website.

If the fan should fail, for whatever reason, the AMD Athlon chip will self destruct within a second. The Intel chip just failed when it overheated, but was still usable once the temperatures came down.

The website noted that it could also cause a fire, so you want to be 100% sure your h/s fan combo will always work.

[superdude_69]

Ya' know, there are mobos that can prevent even a T-bird from going "Toasty!" As soon as they detect a fan failure, they shut down the whole works. And anyway, even if your fan failed (unlikely though that might be) and your Athlon fried, you can practically afford to buy another one and STILL be under the price of P4, at least before they lowered the price :)

[Jimstep]

From some of the reports I have read, the motherboards that have this feature do not react fast enough. The folks at www.tomshardware.com are working on a design that will work for the XP.

My motherboard (MSI K7T Turbo Limited) has a temp alert feature, but that only sends an alert to software that can recognize the alert and shutdown the system. If this chip can fry within a second, then this type of alert is not fast enough.

Intel handles this thrermal problem within their processor.

[superdude_69]

I must admit I haven't read up on it very much, because frankly I'm not the least bit concerned that my fan is going to poop out on me. However, don't we gauge our processors in "millions" of operations a second? I believe that one of these operations could send a signal to kill the power in MUCH less than one second. That's only my opinion though, I'm not an engineer. Yet :)

[Jimstep]

Actually, the thermo probe is not controlled by the processor. Some component on the motherboard gets the temp readings. There is an interesting article that explains how they fixed this problem called "AMD Responds: Protection Against Thermal Death".

http://www4.tomshardware.com/column/01q4/011029/index.html

[Ranma]

Jimstep,

As reported at Tom's, the Pentium 4 doesn't even experience heat failure-- it just slows itself down. That's the best possible situation: even the loss of data isn't a concern (perhaps some data could be misconstrued if a person was taking benchmarks).

[SEALTEAMTHREE]

If the fan on your heatsink fails, the heatsink does not stop working. Sure, the temperature will rise, but if you have half a brain cell you'll have some kind of temperature detecing program (I use motherboard monitor 5, which CAN shut windows down in a snap if you want it to). If you're refering to the tom's hardware video of the 4 cpu's having their HSF's removed, you'll notice that they removed the entire thing. If the fan fails, the heatsink continues to dissapate heat (just much slower than with the fan) and still gives you at least a minute before permanent damage sets in, giving you ample time to yank the plug on your PSU.

[Ranma]

"I use motherboard monitor 5, which CAN shut windows down in a snap if you want it to."

Nothing beats having to use special third party software to compensate for a company's inadequacies/incompetance.

[ragtop]

Hmmm....... All these Intel people - having nightmares because they read an article about what happens if their heatsink falls off while their computer runs unattended ..... then their hardware monitoring software fails to shut down the computer ..... then their overheat protection setting in their BIOS fails to shut down their computer..... then a spark flies from their molten processor and ignites that oil soaked rag they keep inside their computer case..... as the rag ignites violently it blows the metal sides off their computer case and catches their curtains on fire..... the fire roars through their house but the smoke detectors don't go off because they forgot to change their batteries when they turned their clocks back...... they wake up to a smoke filled house and frantically dial 911, but the fire department is too busy chasing down anthrax hoaxes......

Go see your doctor - they have medication that can help you.

[boran_blok]

Just look back in history ... how long did it take for microsoft to get the thermal probe on the PII / PIII accepted by motherboard manufacturers .. you have to considder that intel is the more experienced chipmaker and AMD is the young fast rookie trying to prove it is better than bigger brother... I really like AMD and you need to be really stupid if you manage to let your heatsink fall off in yer case (okay a socket tab CAN break, but it neverhappened to me before and I build all computers for my friends ....

ayway the integrated thermal probe in the MP/XP's is athlons first step just like intel's first step, and it'll take a time to evolve (about 2 or 3 generations of cores)

[[shawn@localhost /home]#]

LMAO!!!

i dont see how your computer can start your house on fire, you seriously WOULD need to have oily rags in the case, usualy a fire stops when it reaches a case made of aluminum or even before because if the fan turned off, the fire will just burn the oxygen in the case and go out

and remember not to call 911 because you accidentaly dropped the talcom powder on the floor hahahahaha!

[J.A.D]

ragtop -- that was good!

Anyone have any links about someone who has lost more than the cpu & mobo to amd heat failure? I could not find any using google.

In fairness, I think you have to include a little more money in the price of amd cpu & mobo because, IMO, the hs and fan that comes with a 1.4 ghz athalon isn't sufficient. You are still looking at around $100 savings for a chip that performs as well or better.

Its all personal choice, but for me I estimate the odds that an AMD cpu melts down do not justify spending an extra hundred bucks.

[Jimstep]

My concern with my Athlon processor is not so much of a fire issue, but to make sure I don't inadvertantly destroy the chip causing me an outage and an inconvenience.

[justin9376]

I am Using a speeze heatsink and fan. The fan on top of it is a 60mm fan. I am running my XP1600+ at 1862mhz. at +0.5V yet the cpu doesnt reach above 37 Degrees . It shows up as XP 2200+

My system is as follows

AMP XP1600+
Chaintech 7KJD Motherboard
256MB DDR Memory
30GB IBM 7200RPM Drive
Windows XP.
Voodoo3 3500 graphics card.

I will be changing my graphics card.

I got the motherboard, heatsink and fan, chip, and memory from Novatech in the uk. It is £239 inc VAT for the whole lot. I have checked the temperature of heatsink with digital thermometer. Im surprised it lets me got this high. The FSB is running at 149. What happens when the chips released get to 12.5X multiplier, does anyone know, every board ive come across only has 12.5X multiplier

best regards

Justin Cottrell

justin.cottrell@virgin.net

[boran_blok]

just a little sidenote, the cooler yer heatsink feels the worse it is, a hot heatsink is a sign that your heatsink removes a lot of heat from your processor, a "cold" heatsink is a sign of not very much heat transfer away from yer die .... (or of a very good case temp and low tempoutput...)

anyway measuring yer HSF temp is not very accurate to see what your CPU temps are...

[Madtripper]

I have had my 900 tbird running at 1100 for about 9 months and pretty much 24/7. I have a radeon ddr vivo, 512 crucial memory and a global win setup for cooling the cpu. I think the biggest advantage is my Fong Kai case. My system will run hotter if the covers are off thanks to a great job by the manufacturer. I have heard of people gloating over there pentium that runs a stable 50 degrees celcius, meanwhile I'm idling at 27 degrees celcius. If I push it, I can see 44 degrees. Hardly close the 90 degrees that may damage it.

[jprophet420]

northwood benchmarks higher than any amd product, i can just hear them bi***ing "but its so much more expensive..."
refer to rule in life: you get what you pay for.
and yes the whole heat sync thing is played out you would have to be rather unlucky to burn anything because of the cpu you choose but it is a FACT that amd runs hotter than intel.
oh well to each their own

[jprophet420]

also, as far as price is concerned....
p4 1.9 gig is 8 dollars more than the xp 1900, which is what amd is marketing it as comparable to through benchmarking. so try not to be too biased towards either side...

[Rhino302]

I never realized fans just stopped working or fell off all the time. Do all fans do this? I have house fans that have been aroudn for 10 years, still working. Ceiling fans too. The fan in my 486's power supply still works. Considering it takes quite a bit of force to apply a heatsink, I didn't know they could just jump up off the socket either. I dunno, call me crazy, but I might choose a Dodge Viper without anti lock brakes over a Chevy Impala with the anti lock brakes. Just a risk I would take.

[wing7788]

Really shouldnt be a surprise for all of us as AMD has proven even before that their chips performs much bettern than Intel.

[SEALTEAMTHREE]

Its like I said earlier, I'll gladly trade the ability to remove the heatsink from my processor without having it burn up for better preformance. The argument that a P4 can have the heatsink fall off and not die is useless-the whole reason you put a heatsink on there is to reduce heat, not so you can take it off and say "my CPU doesn't fry when you remove the heatsink! See!" Why don't we have a test and see what happens if we throw a computer into a bucket of water! Mabey Intel built a "short-resistance" diode into the Pentiums so they won't short out if thrown in water!

[AdamP]

Superdude_69,

Actually, CPU fans do fail, especially if they are the cheaper "sleave bearing" type. I'm running a PII desktop at work and i started hearing noises from one of the fans at boot-up. I had the IT guy look at it and it was indeed the CPU fan.

-Adam
:)

[BobyJo]

I just read the last article published by AMD on the compareson of cpu's. I quote, the P4 2.0ghz only outpaces the XP1800+ in one or catagories. The XP1900+ will outpace the P4 2.0ghz in every catagory". Now we are not talking about a P4 1.9 cpu, we are compareing the XP1900+ to the P4 2.0 ghz cpu and the 1900+ outperforms the 2.0 P4 in all catagories. So I think this is the correct compareson of the cpu's. We have 3 AMD systems and never had a hs/fan to fail, nor fall off the clips that hold this device on the cpu.

I will tell you I am biosed towards Tom's Hareware because when I was a lot younger and less expierenced, I believed a lot of what he published on his site. More than a couple of times I went out and purchased a piece of hardware just because he said that this is the best. Everything I purchased that he was recommending wound up in the trash within 3-6 months. The manfacturer would replace the product, and did on all of these, they were still trash. So if you go out and purchase something just because his review says it is good as it gets. I feel for you, because you have been had.

[wallie_x]

:D 1) The fact remains: with less money, less resources, and the inability to produce a processor based on a .13 micron die (most likely due to monetary factors) AMD has made a processor that not only beats the P4 in most bench marks, they did it with a much slower clock speed. It’s called superior engineering. The fact that Intel still pushes the Celeron proves they think most people who purchase computers are ignorant.
2) How many actual cases are there of a heat sink dislodging itself from a processor while operating? The Intellian’s are nit picking and being sore losers. While superior on paper the P4 has not lived up to its expectations in actual working applications. In benchmarks where the P4 should smoke the Athlon it barely beats it. Intellian’s, if it weren’t for AMD poe-boys like me would be stuck with Via Cyrix M III’s because we couldn’t even afford the LOSER Celeron’s if Intel had carte blanche over CPU’s the way Microsoft has over software. You would be stuck with the Celeron’s because you couldn’t afford the P4’s.

[HotRod9mm]

Once upon a time....

Something a little interesting happened to me. I just replaced my MB with an 8KHA+, after installing my 1.33/266 Athlon, AMD HSF and checking everything twice, I reinstalled the side panel and hit the power button. After a few CMOS changes and a reboot I was off running ECCp 27/7. On day 2 Windozes locked up sometime during the night, at about 6:15am I restarted it and noticed in POST the CPU temp was running at 54c. It booted up and I had no problems until late that evening(about 11:45pm) when I noticed it had locked up again???? So I rebooted the system, temp was still 54c(I don't like it that high) and I watched it until about 1:30am when I went to bed. I checked it at 6am and all was running fine. By 1pm Sat afternoon I noticed it had locked up again, so I shut it down, unplugged everything and on the bench it went. I removed the side cover and noticed a 3-wire connector just hanging from the CPU fan not plugged into anything. Hmmmm I though to myself, could this be the cause of my lock-ups? I plugged the fan into the header on the MB, replaced the panel, pluged everything back in, hit the power button and its setting here running 24/7 and no lock-ups. Just for fun, I did reboot this morning and noticed that the temp was at 39c and I can live with that. My little 1.33 runs ECCp at about 870,000 IPS and the 1.4s I’ve read about are getting close to 1M IPS. I have not seen any posts about the same speed Intel’s getting close to 1M IPS, but it would be nice to know?

The End :D

Will they run without a fan?...........Mine did....
Will I try it without a heat sink?.....Nope!
Will I try it here or there, will I try them anywhe.......Sorry thats another book.....

[Jimstep]

And no house fire. Hmmm. You answered the "burning" question that has been the "heated" topic of this forum.