AMD might get bought by Micron

[mraltoid19]

This can't be!!!!!!!!!!! If micron buys em they'll just stop making processors and Intel will be alone again!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.......VIA **** it make a good processor!!!!!!! at least if Via can make intel stop making P4s they may be inclined to make better C3s. I'd rather have nVidia buy out AMD then Intel would have an even harder time competing with that. Hell if AMD does shut down I KNOW nVidia would jump into the processor market in 2 or 3 years. Then Intel would swallow up ATI .

[falcompsx]

if micron buys amd, then nvidia's crush will never see the light of day, cause they don't have a license for using crush on Intel for anything but xbox....D*MN YOU INTEL!!!!!

can i say d*mn on the forums/news comments?

[Ritalin Kid]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

**** THOSE TERRORISTS!! **** THEM TO THE DEPTHS OF HELL!!!

Don't Do it AMD it's times like this that we need your lost cost high performance CPU's the most... I hate the thought of having to go back to Intel it's just as bad as being stuck with M$ Windows..

[Overkill[TBP]]

Don't you see what their doing, Intel and Micron are probably planning this, Micron is probably going to be buddie buddie with Intel.

Buy AMD, stop producing, or change thier processors, give Intel a big lead again. And Micron gets a cut out of the deal.

Just what I think...

[SoopaStar]

I see it in a different light. AMD is a small company that cannot compete with intels money. It may be a superior product, but the price war has finally taken its toll.
Micron on the other hand soldoff its PC business, one of its smaller memory companies (spacetek) and kept their successful and popular memmory business.
I think if it does happen it could be good for AMD. I highly doubt the would stop making the chips. Micron isn't that dumb. They may try to help build a standard again (rambus? SDRAM? DDR? lets stick to one..or two...). Let's wait and see!
Paul

[Dputiger]

I seriously doubt Micron will be purchasing AMD considering they just reported a 615 million dollar loss on the quarter.

[RandysPCs]

Looks like Gateway dropped AMD's line of processors. That hurts AMD pretty bad because Gateway was one of AMDs bigger sellers. Looks like it's up to all of us AMD users out there to keep em in business.

[RobRich]

AMD has suffered significant losses, though Micron bought Rendition when it was also loosing millions of dollars a quarter because of competition from more wealthly competitors like 3dfx and nVidia. AMD is setting itself up for a similar pattern. Something to think about....

AMD also has a large stake in flash memory technologies, and Micron represents perhaps its largest competition within this marketplace. More than 36 million memory cards were shipped in 2000 amounting to $1.6 billion in revenue, with the memory card market planned will reach $2.6 billion in 2005. Eliminate the competition is the easiest way to suceed in many cases.

Comments to earlier posts: Intel will never purchase ATI, as the capital expendeture would be too great. nVidia will likely never produce x86 processors. Building a gpu is definitely not the same as building a cpu, as it requires a completely different design approach. nVidia also does not have the capital reserves tio purchase AMD.

Robert Richmond

[MrMiguel]

I think were all way off base here. Micron is a versatile competitor to alot of companies. They have demonstrated their ability to make the best memory products and arguably the best chipset products (Samurai DDR). AMD is too valuable as a processor manufacturer to just chunk that whole operation out the window. Micron wants to diversify and its smart to combine the strengths of AMD's proc development with Microns memory and chipset development. Expect huge production capacities and like zero time to market. All you naysayers who think it's not gonna happen.. why would AMD suddenly close its two oldest fabs?-Micron will handle flash memory from now on. This is good.

[mraltoid19]

Hey rob I don't know if you noticed but nVidia made a MOTHERBOARD the 420 and the 220. I bet 2 or 3 years ago an ignorant person like you probably never forsaw a maker of GPU's to make MoBo's. Not just any mobo either. The nVidia mother boards are considered the best in the market. It makes an Athlon 1.4 Ghz acctually out perform an Intel Pentium 4 2.0 Ghz on the i850! So I guess it isn't to far off to say that nVidia would be up for the challenge to make a CPU. I know CPUs and GPU are different, any idiot (even you) would know this. But guess what? So is a core logic chipset on a motherboard!!!! Is it really that crazy to think nVidia wouldn't be up to the challenge?? To me it seems nVidia is up to take up any challenge and if AMD indeed does leave the market and VIA can't make a competitive proccecor then by all means nVidia would jump in and show Intel who's boss. Hell 4 years ago I bet no one ever forsaw nVidia taking over the Graphics market and 3Dfx to be dead. But things change and if in 2004 and Intel has a 7.0 Ghz proccecor at an outrageos price of $930 im willing to bet that same $930 that nVidia will release a 10 Ghz chip for $400. By the way ATI is nothing to sneeze at either. I know ATI is a big company but Intel is WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY bigger. If nVidia does make processors and mobos and graphics card Intel would have a lot to go up against. Don't forget Intel graphic cards suck!!!!!!!!!! (remember the onboard on the i815) so if nVidia makes everything for their platforms to maximize performance and stability Intel would want the same. So Intel would either make real graphics cards for their machines or purchase a graphics company to make a good GPU for them. Right now Im hoping the best for AMD I love them and ever since my K6-2 500 I've been happy with their proccesors and my current 1.3 Ghz Athlon has been great!!!!!!!! But if God forbid AMD does leave us then I will root for VIA. I hope they win the court case against Intel I hope that they make a proccecor compatible with the p4x266 that would be awsome so that all the r&d time spent on the p4x266 wn't be a waste. VIA dont disapoint me Your motherboards have been very good but a 1.2 ghz C3 is equal to a Duron 800? Wtf is that??????

[jokostel]

mraltoid19 :>> keep your ignorance to yourself please.. rob is one of the smartest people here and will put you in the closet when something technical appears... if you dont have a bright or thoughtful comment keep the stupidity to yourself. thank you.


jokostel

[jokostel]

as far as amd goes... amd will always be amd...
micron doesnt have the money or nohow to produce cpus,chipsets.


nvidia has close ties with amd they arent gonna let that happen and jeprodise $$$ from being made


plus amd has close ties with MS now... hint hint althon xp?


:)

my .02c

jokostel

[InsaneJoe]

unfortunately we can never know the whole story which is always the case. also unfortunately, the media just reports what it is told, and therefore it is the truth as they know it. however, it is also unfortunate that to many people it is all about the money, and not the people. the people have spoken and hopefully if amd knows how most people feel, they can make a sound judgement with their and our best interests at heart. i feel this is where intel and microsoft get lost- if you don't satisfy the people, then your service is based on b.s. and you shouldn't be in business.
:( on a last note, i know next to nothing about the amd/micron deal or whatever deal that may occur, but mainly we all just need patience and trust that AMD WILL PREVAIL!! ...i hope
joe

[mraltoid19]

Ahem if this rob gentlemen is so intelegent why would he completly shrug the idea of nVidia making proccesors? Only a truly ignorant person would doubt a company that has thrived as much as nVidia. Seriosly I doubt any of you 2 years ago (heck a year ago) even thought of nVidia making motherboards. But here we are in 2001 going into 2002 and oh lookee here nVidia's making motherboards. Wow if what rob said was correct then Motherboard and Video cards are the same thing I guess. Right? No? I guess he's wrong then!! Dead wrong!! Motherboards have more in common with CPU's then with GPU's right? So making a CPU (maybe a sound card) is nVidia's next logical step. Granted it may take longer to make an x86 compatible cpu (be it 32-bit or 64-bit) or make a completly new type of CPU compatible with today (and tomorows) software. I'm not dissing rob just pointing out his short sightedness.

[InsaneJoe]

while u do have a point, a little diplomaticism (that a word) is necessary. Just because u have a different view than rob doesn't mean that you have to make it your role to decimate(spelling) him or what he says. so what, he said he doesn't think they will be making a cpu. It's called an opinion and people can have their own. It is also necessary to keep this in mind enlight of the current situations we are having with what to do to afghanistan/taliban. dont go around trashing people just cause they are different.
and it also makes you sound a little more intelligent than a 1st grader.
my .02 $

[jokostel]

tis true

[The Beav]

While not the focus of this thread, I must say that I for one value most of what Rob has to say. He is showing his maturity and intelligence by not getting into a discussion about this.

I belong to this forum and not many others because of the level of professionalism that goes on in the threads.

On to the topic at hand, I am an AMD user form my very start with pcs. I will truely be disheartened if they do come to demise.

My stuffy .02 :) Thanks!

[RobRich]

Contrary to belief, nVidia did not engineer a new chipset for the Athlon. It simply liscenced the EV6 bus logic technologies from AMD and Compaq (DEC Alpha). Similar situation for VIA, SIS, ALI, and anyone else that plans on producing a Socket A chipset. Read the news from earlier today for my comments about the nForce 420. nVidia introduced a second memory controller into the EV6 pipeline to extend another 64-bits of memory bandwidth to the integrated graphics controller. Engineering a processor and developing a varient chipset have little in common.

Interesting fact: nVidia has already been in the chipset business for many months now through agreements with ALI. nVidia has been planning to enter the chipset market for over a couple of years now. Similarly, ATI has already produced integrated graphics chipsets through ArtX. ATI also has its own integrated multimedia chipsets planned for release in H1 2002 for both the P4 and Athlon.

Intel has no interest in high-end 3D graphics chipsets according to its PR specialists. However, it does provide the graphics industry with a large portion of new rendering technologies. You can read my article on Intel latest developments in Light Field Mapping at Rom's. :)

http://www.romulus2.com/articles/guides/lfm/lfm1.htm

nVidia is not interested in x86 processor design. This is fact, not opinion, as this was indicated by my PR contacts. The hopes of producing an x86 processor from scratch that did not infringe on thousands of already established microprocessor patents would be nearly futile. Examine VIA for proof. It essentially keeps sending 2-3 year old Centaur designs out the door. Why no new radical desings? First off the best developers are already working at AMD and Intel. Second off, VIA has enough patent right problems to deal with already.

nVidia does actually have an integrated multimedia processor in the design stages, however you would have to be under strict NDA to actually know anything about this project. Still, it is not an x86 design, and it only targeted at certain non-desktop markets. No plans to develop any x86 processor appear in any internal nVidia roadmap throughout 2004.

I honestly believe that VIA will not win in its lawsuit against Intel. VIA will likely settle out of court for rights to legally produce the P4X266 chipset. Also expect VIA to pay Intel some form of liscencing fee to ensure future P4 design before this is settled. A similar situation happed with the Pro133.

Best Regards,

Robert Richmond
Associate Editor
www.SysOpt.com

[MrMiguel]

tell you what mraltoid.. when youre done with jr high, why dont you go get a textboook and readup on chip manufacturing. Rob is big boss when it comes to tech stuff.. Making a proc and being able to produce decent yields in a decent amount of time is alot different than making a few specialized gpus without much thought for the mainstream. Nvidia is already feeling the pain of ramping up for motherboard manufacturing... AMD and Intel, IBM have been in the proc making business for decades.. they cant be touched by the likes of nvidia any time soon on that front. I think that this whole thing is just another example of how big corporations are comming together to comabt the downturn in tech and the economy. HP+ Compaq? WHo wouldve thought that a year ago. Dont rule out two decent companies getting together (Micron + Amd) either.

[djwolfie007]

LETS BOYCOTE INTEL HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE :D

[bhill222]

Originally posted by jokostel
micron doesnt have the money or nohow to produce cpus,chipsets.

I think you missed the mark - Micron has produced DAMNED good chipsets since 1997/8. It was a dual PII based design, called the Samurai, aimed at powering Micron PC's entry into the workstation/server market. It even suppored a 64-bit 66Mhz PCI bus. I still have one that works (upgraded to dual OC'ed Celerons, of course).
Later on in 2000, Micron re-authored the Samurai as the Samurai DDR - this time to prove the efficacy of their DDR memory at a time when Intel was favoring Rambust. This chipset only made it to mobo designers as a proof-of-concept - by all accounts, it worked, worked well, and set some serious benchmarks.

Micron MAY have a more difficult time competing in the "value" end of the marketplace - both Samurai chipsets were not cost constrained. But in terms of engineering excellence, Micron has great credentials in chipsets...

[camaro]

I'm taking a fab class right now and its not so easy to just start making chips. I hope AMD keeps going at least till their 64bit chip is out. Right now the market is down period. Even Intel lost huge money. Next year will be alot better for everyone.

[TallonZekTroll]

AMD REALLY REALLY needs to turn the heat up on Intel. Last year at this time AMD was cooking, and was leaving Intel in it's dust on any front they chose. Heck, AMD often competed in a server market with single cpu's facing intel's twin cpus...a market AMD never really intended to get into so soon. Anyone who knows anything about CPU's knows that intel's P4 is pretty much a joke and that an AMD surrendering 10-15% clock speed can easily match it in almost any chosen test. But the problem is such that the people who know that are certainly not the mainstream buyers...the people who look at a $499 eMachine and go "WOW WHAT A DEAL!" are the ones who probably buy the most units (in terms of pre-built machines). So the real trick is for AMD to produce it's new Palomino core at 2Ghz and hit 2.5 and 3 faster than intel does. By doing this AMD can demonstrate a) they CAN and WILL manufacture along with intel, and b) they CAN and WILL crush their competition performance wise wherever possible. Intel is certainly running scared, but now they are pulling out a bit into the lead, and I'd hate to see AMD again fall into the position of playing catch up or "value" processor king. They need to start dropping a new chip speed out every 4 or 5 weeks until they catch up to intel...maybe quicker. I'd gladly pay the same dollar value for an AMD chip as I would an Intel piece of **** for each clock speed.

[Inferior]

Where's some proof to this accusation?

[zengeos]

" So the real trick is for AMD to produce it's new Palomino core at 2Ghz and hit 2.5 and 3 faster than intel does. By doing this AMD can demonstrate a) they CAN and WILL manufacture along with intel, and b) they CAN and WILL crush their competition performance wise wherever possible."

Hi Tallon,

Interesting thought, but there are some serious problems with the possibility of your suggestions coming to reality.

1) Athlon and P4 are two VERY different designs. P4 was designed to clock very high. I think part of this was in reaction to AMD's rapid ramping of Athlon outpacing P3 speed ramps, but that's just a guess on my part since it takes years to design and produce new architectures. Athlon was designed to outperform or at least match the performance of equivalent speed P3's of the day. Remember back in the mid-late 90's when AMD was roundly criticized for their lower performance when compared to similarly clocked P2/P3's. Again, just an hypothesis on my part since it takes years to design new CPUs.

2) Athlon, in part due to its core design runs hot. At 1.4ghz it runs very hot. Palomino supposedly generates 20% less heat, but work it out. a 20% speed increase would get Palomino up to 1.7ghz. That's far short of the 2.0 ghz+ you suggest AMD must reach to compete better with Intel. That kind of speed won't happen on Palomino until Thoroughbred is released sometime in the 1H 2002.

I personally would LOVE to see AMD produce Athlons every bit as fast as P4 in clock speed! However, the basic design of the chip wasn't intended to reach those kinds of clock speeds. I'm also wondering about Hammer. That chip sounds VERY exciting, but we won't know just how great it is until we see it. (or at least some solid reviews of it)

Now, as for the original subject of this whole thread....Micron is NOT buying AMD. It makes NO sense financially. Not when Micron is losing more money than they are actually taking in as revenues (470 million gross sales....550 million or so in net LOSS) That's just too ugly to contemplate Micron as buying AMD. Maybe AMD is buying Micron....

Mark-

PS: Keep up the interesting discussion everyone! :)

:cool:

[mudoggy]

Indeed, cash is king.

Usually, if a company like AMD hit $8 per share, which I think it has, it becomes a viable and attractive buyout target.
Unfortunately, most of the companies that could pull off a +51% purchase of shares are bleeding from the eyeballs cash-wise as well, with no bright future in store for anyone.

With the whole sector in doubt, companies will usually hoard what cash reserves they have, and also use possible lines of credit or other financing for their own survival, rather than expansion.

Note that there are exceptions and gamblers. I would be pretty suprised, though, if someone made a move. It is awfully risky in a financial sense right now.

Although, I don't necessarily think it would be a bad fit. You do what you have to do to survive and innovate, and if that's the only way to add resources and critical mass, then someone will make it happen.

Don't rule out AMD selling pieces of itself, either (ie: Flash memory, etc.).

Should be interesting.

[Recordlord]

I dont even know why I am posting!! This is insane Micron doesnt have the money to buy AMD.

AMD's book value is $11 a share. THey are trading right now at bid 7.99 ask 8.00. You want a good deal buy AMD stock!! $8.00 X 345.0 Million <-- AMD's # of outstanding shares = $2.76 Billion in Market Capital. AMD's 2000 revenues reached $3.5 billion.

If you want to buy AMD get ready for a purchase price of around $35 a share that would be around $12.0 Billion.

[mudoggy]

Exactly.. I forgot to relate that point as well.

The high price tag isn't always a problem, because if you have a good idea and a solid performance history (Micron does), you can usually find the financing.

Problem is, right now there would be few lenders will to take that much risk in such turbulent times, especially with the entire tech sector in the dumps.

Sure, you may even find some financial sources, but with uncertainty comes risk, and with risk, comes higher rates and stricter terms for financing (or even handing over some control or ownership and profits).

While it is possibly an attractive price, it's too much to swallow at the moment when the big picture is taken into account.

Now.... an "affiliation" (merger, equal or otherwise) with a stock-swap or some other non-cash instrument is a distinct possibility. AMD needs to be a very willing partner to the transaction, though.

If nothing else, it provides with ample ammo for speculation and debate. :)

[woodbutcher]

Hmmm
I remember when Cyrix was still in the cpu market. I bought (and still use) a 75 mhz bus 200 pent equivelant that at the time cost me 125.00. The amd 233 was running at 165.00 and the intel, well its intel. I remember reading that intel was making something like 60% gross (or was it pure?) profit on every cpu they sold. My point being that although cyrix was not the fastest cpu on the market it was a low cost option. With options and competition from other manufactures gone intel again becomes a mononpoly dicatating not only pricing but availability. Just look where cyrix ended up! (that sound your computer makes when you empty the recycle bin) Just my thoughts WB

[KennyPolo]

just because AMD MIGHT be bought by Micron.. does it necesssarily mean AMD will stop making processors?

I doubt AMD will be bought by Micron anyway, Micron has been losing a lot of money this year while AMD is rising

[mnemonic25]

My first amd was a k-6 450. I now have a 1.4ghz t-bird. This could be a sad , sad thing. I think this is a joint effort by intel and micron . Intel seems to be the only people who could actually put up the cash for micron to make such a big move. Buisness wise. this looks real good for intel and real bad for us.

[Harshu]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! !!!!!!!

What will happen to my future and my dream computer. :eek: Now Intel worst nightmare is going for a long sleep. Oh god help AMD. Or we will not have any performance orianted option left.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! !!!!!!!!

[Canthus]

my thought on intel out doing amd is bull intell really hasn't out done amd i mean the rambus ram is a joke they stop maken it and what did they really do finally got over 133 front side bus i thought that was never gonna happen i mean amd just came out with the duel chips and amd is still kicken there *** in the lap top area so amd isn't gonna just fall away i mean intel just finally figured out how to run there pIII at low voltage what makes you think amd dosn't have something up there sleave

[GrimBo]

I still live by the motto: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm still happy with my P3 - 1Gig.

I guess if I've never had AMD to begin with, then I don't know what I'm missing. I was considering upgrading to AMD but at this moment I don't see a need to upgrade. All my programs work well at the current speed. I get great framerates. I'll wait and upgrade when my machine starts to slow me down. This is my honest/non-biased opinion. :)

[KennyPolo]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO INTEL SUCKS :mad:

[GrimBo]

Originally posted by KennyPolo
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO INTEL SUCKS :mad:

I'm aware of Intel sucking. C'mon Kennypolo, cut me some slack, I remember when (geez this makes me old :)) ppl was throwing rocks at AMD. AMD was a curse word. I'm glad that a company has come out and put out a fine product that put a "dent" in Intel.

[jprophet420]

intel sucks, whatever. just because you prefer amd doesnt make my p3 run bad or hot or slower than amd. get some tact, bro.

[KennyPolo]

no0o intel sucks and will always suck.. we need amd

go amd go amd :D

amd may have been a no name when they first started out but eventually they started comparing.. people noticed the high quality and great price difference

unlike some stuff that made small attempts to compete such as cyrix haha :o

[GrimBo]

Originally posted by jprophet420
intel sucks, whatever. just because you prefer amd doesnt make my p3 run bad or hot or slower than amd. get some tact, bro.

I take it you bother reading my earlier post.

[KennyPolo]

i did read your post and that was my response to it :o

[jprophet420]

i was talkin to kenny, sorry for the confusion:)

[KennyPolo]

i think they know since i was the one really putting intel down :0

[TweakerXP]

I want to know where you got this information from?? What reliable source did you get this AMD being bought by Micron?? I have looked everywhere on the net for ANY article about this and I can't find anything anywhere about it?? Sorry till someone can send me a link to the article from which this info came from, I can't buy it !!!!

[GrimBo]

Originally posted by jap03
I want to know where you got this information from?? What reliable source did you get this AMD being bought by Micron?? I have looked everywhere on the net for ANY article about this and I can't find anything anywhere about it?? Sorry till someone can send me a link to the article from which this info came from, I can't buy it !!!!

Seeing that you brought this to everyone's attention, I took the liberty of going to the link that was attached to original. It looks like I Yahoo Market Update. The only thing I can find in it about AMD is this:

Sun Microsystems (SUNW) warned for its current quarter just minutes ago. The company now expects a net loss in the range of $0.05-$0.07 per share versus the consensus estimate for a net loss of $0.04 per share. On the topline SUNW has cut its forecast to the range of $2.7-$2.9 billion versus the consensus estimate of $3.4 billion. In addition, the company said it will be cutting 9% of its workforce. SUNW's warning comes on the heels of a warning from Advanced Micro Devices earlier this morning. AMD now sees September quarter sales of $766 million versus the consensus estimate of $836 million -- the company expects its net loss will be in the range of $0.26-$0.31 per share versus the consensus estimate for a net loss of $0.11 per share. AMD says unit sales of microprocessors remained at the second quarter's record level, but average selling prices fell sharply.

Now I don't know how often this page updates, but I thought I'd at least take a look and see if it was true also. I will continue to look around.

[jake_westmorley]

Hi... I'm new to the Sysopt forum, although I have been reading the site for a long time now...
I just had a couple of comments to say about AMD being bought by Micron (and yes, I am an AMD fan - since the early K5's to be precise)...
My father worked for a medium-sized oil company called Fina (Belgian company).. this got bought by Total (French company) a while ago, and while everyone thought this would take a while to digest, Total simply went right ahead and bought Elf (another French company)... No-one had predicted it for multiple reasons: not enough cash, too large company (Elf was larger than Total at the time), and a bunch of other reasons... Even the board of Total was surprised when Desmarest (the CEO of Total) announced the OPA to the press...
Anyway, that's just my 0.02c for the people who reckon that AMD being bought is impossible.... Nothing is impossible, however unprobable it may be...
(Oh, and I know this is a forum about computers, just thought this was at least vaguely relevant in some way)
Cheers!