VIA C3 800MHz CPU in a can

[jokostel]

one word : SLOW...

Thunderbirds are so cheap right now... P4's for the money arent worth **** to the average man/woman soo.... :)


jokostelI AM Azrael. (jokostel@hotmail.com)

[Timbob505]

Sounds interesting...I wonder how it will bench compared to the other low power, low heat chips out there...Maybe not all that fast, but who needs 1.4GHz in a laptop? I doubt it will get many corporate sales, but at least for the average person looking for a cheap, energy efficient solution this could be very attractive...

Timbob

[RobRich]

I've actually got a new .15u C3 setting here collecting dust, perhaps it's time for a review of this low-power chip. :)

Robert Richmond

[CMonster]

Robert - blow off the dust and let us know would you?

[jokostel]

everybody... to rob's house.... hes got a new keychain!!!! :)

[samwichse]

Make fun but someone needs to do it. This chip is perfect for the sub-notebook category because it draws practically nothing compared to an Athlon/P3 and on top of that it hardly needs anything for cooling. If your laptop is mostly used for word processing (which most are), then this baby can seriously increase battery life.

[RobRich]

I've got a Pro266 m/b coming in to test this chip with DDR, as VIA is marketing the "C3 with DDR" as a competitive desktop solution in its Asian marketplace. Guess we will find out soon enough..... ;)

Robert Richmond

[OuTpaTienT]

At least they're packaging it right. I heard that's exactly where their CPU belongs...in the can.

---

Well. He said to "make fun", so I did. ;)

[ukulele]

The best, quickest and most cost productive chips remain to be proven. The new market as of last week will dictate the outcome of this latest declaration.

[corrupted]

didn't they officially die out over a year ago when Cyrix went bust? sure, VIA have tried to re-incarnate it, but it needs alot of work to make it more than a laptop alternative, despite how lucrative that market is. I honestly don't think they acn catch up to the big players after such a gap, despite the advances VIA are constantly making.

remember, the average buyer will see the good points of any chip, and if they market it as being an Intel alternative, it'll sell almost on that basis alone. after all, it fits a socket 370, and there's alot of those boards out there that people would like to upgrade speed on.

[Banti]

If it does SMP(2 or 2+), the server market would eat these up. They draw less power and produce less heat. The two major factors for operating a server farm (besides personel) are power demand and cooling.


Banti

[SoopaStar]

Well, if you look at the ECS D6vaa, the second socket is labeled for the C3 chip. Are they hinting anything? Robrich..can you confirm anything about this?

Paul

[RobRich]

No SMP support according to the tech docs I have, as no Cyrix or Centaur design ever supported Intel's APIC SMP standard. AMD/Cyrix OpenPIC is a possibility, but no chipsets were ever released to the public with this feature.

The next-gen VIA C5X design is to be more of a competitor, as it features a fully pipelined, full die speed floating point unit with Intel SSE support. SSE2 is rumored as well, but this would seem to be overkill for such a low-end chip. It should also feature 256KB of L2 cache and a complete integer core redesign as well.

Robert Richmond

[aeo_tom]

greetings: I joined the forum based on my interest in the VIA C3. Perhaps my primary issue ought to be the subject of a separate post, but I will give it a shot here and see what happens. First, may I say that I am disappointed by the responses to date. Specifically, I do not understand why there is not already a comprehensive review of the C3 FSB 133. What are you waiting for, Godot? Secondly, the comments, like "Slow", and "it belongs in the can" reflect the type of immaturity which kept me from joining this forum years ago. Occasionally I would take a gander, read something intelligent, usually from Peter Missell, and then, continue perusing, but discover little of substance. Why am I so keen on this CPU? I am not against INTEL, or AMD. I am not a stockholder in VIA. Perhaps the easiest way to explain my interest in this little cpu, is to tell you that, despite being 183cm tall, I drive a Ford Festiva because it gets 50mpg (~20km/liter) and has automatic seat belts. The Via C3/133 requires so little power that no fan or heatsink is required for non-overclocked operation. That fact alone makes it of great significance to me--reduced costs for the initial acquisition and lowered room cooling costs sans heat pump from the computer-- a non-trivial expense in warm, humid climates like Florida. Now the reason for my post: I am unable in these United States of America, to locate ANY socket 370 motherboard in an AT form factor. They are sold elsewhere, in Europe, Asia, South America, but not in USA. WHY???? Some (ignorants) would argue that AT is obsolete, though of course the distinction between an 8MHZ ISA slot, and a 33 MHz PCI slot is clearly insignificant compared with the clock speed of the cpu. It is not obsolete for me. I require the ISA slot for my proprietary boards which employ kilohertz sampling rates,.... So I spent last week on the internet looking for a socket 370 motherboard, AT form factor, and I found a couple: Pine makes a nifty board, right up my alley, 4USB ports, 1.5 GByte memory capability, FSB 133, and an ISA slot in the AT form factor. but lo and behold, PINE USA doesn't sell motherboards. One has to travel to China or Europe or South America to find one. Ditto for Asus ME-99B. Have to go to Malaysia to find one. Well, it is two years old!! So, therefore it is obsolete???? Look at the board on the ASUS web site, yes, it is a bit dated, but it supports FSB 133 with PCI 33, according to the manual, and has a couple ISA slots in AT form factor. I could use it. But it is not for sale in this country. Nor is the gigabyte GA 6VA7+ for sale. So why can't one locate a board to use in evaluating this incredible Via C3 cpu? My own explanation is simple, and probably erroneous. This post is long enough, maybe too long, so I'll stop now, but if anyone knows where I could find a board, I would welcome the news. If anyone wants to debate with me (I have read John Howland's excellent accomplishment with his bench marks, showing 800 MHz C3's miserable score compared with celeron and duron) on the advantages of the "slow" C3, I am glad to take you on, in private, or here in public. Just make sure you include in this debate the costs of the heat sink for the Athlon et al in the equation. All the costs. Not just the noisy fan itself. Regards aeo_tom

[RobRich]

Great, someone looking for a tech debate here. Usually a great prospect for myself, but why even bother with such an invalid arguement.

Regardless of cooling, format, speed, or whatever, the VIA C3 will likely never have marketability in the United States. An AMD Duron of equivalent speed is readily available for a lower cost! Socket A motherboards are dirt cheap and Duron cooling is dirt cheap. Noise with a Duron cooler? If a 3500 rmp fan bothers you, there is something wrong to begin with, as a power supply fan produces more aound!

If you wish to discuss architectural issues, then let's proceed. The C3 can only accomplish the performance it offers right now through utilization of a low latency core architecture. Integer performance is nearly onpar with a 66 MHz bus Celeron-II, though floating-point and SIMD performance is below that of even the old K6-2. Try running STREAM to measure memory perfomance. You will quickly find out that even a 66 MHz Celeron-II generally outpaces the C3. The Duron completely surpasses both.

I would be interested in a single industry accpeted FPU benchmark that anyone can provide that proves the C3 is faster than either the Celeron-II or Duron of the same clock speed. It isn't happening with specINT and definitely not with specFP!

AT is obsolete, as ATX and MicroATX are both cost effective enough to scale from entry-level to beyond workstation. Simple enough, go check http://www.pricewatch.com . 2 year old boards are outdated, as chipset manufacturers have consistently provided updated designs at the rate of 1 to 2 per year.

If this forum is immature from your perspective, why even bother posting? Each person here has an opinion, and we strive for an open posting policy. Just because you do not agree with someone else's position, do not insult the person with comments like "immature."

You may ask what is my take in all this? I am a media partner with VIA, have access to all C3 platform technical documents, am well versed in x86 architectural engineering, and would be glad to discuss the technical issues with you.

Regards,
Robert Richmond

[corrupted]

aeo, i understand where you're coming from, but untill the cihps are re-designed they just aren't viable solutions to the majority of end users. i run a duron 750 because it was cheap, and there wasn't even a cyrix chip left for sale in australia when i went shopping. as far as i'm concerned, anything beats a celery on principle alone. VIA just need to bring the chip up to the times again, as it once was. i have run a cyrix chip before, and it was perfectly stable running well above it's designated speed, so i would happily buy another one if it was close to par.

i'll try looking for a board for ya too.

[aeo_tom]

Thanks Rob, some of your harsh rebuttal was deserved. I will stand however by my assertion that AT is not obsolete. I agree with you that Duron and Celeron both outperform C3, and I expect you may be correct that even K6-2 outperforms it. The issue is heat, electricity and cost, not performance. A Festiva will never defeat a Corvette. But, some of us are not racing. We are just using the computer. And cost for electricity for a single machine is irrelevant, I agree, but not if one has 20, or 40 in the same room, all generating lots of heat as well. Noise, well, that's a subjective matter, perhaps I am dated there. Seems to me that my old cooling fans are pretty noisy. And then the airconditioning noise and cost in order to cool the room are annoying as well. Perhaps you work in a colder clime!! These points must seem trivial to you and many other readers. I still believe sysopt needs to perform a proper evaluation of the C3. Cheers, aeo_tom

[aeo_tom]

thank you Corrupted. Yes, Duron is an excellent cpu for the money. Probably the best--I agree with you. But it is hot. Further, to the best of my knowledge, there are no socket A boards in the AT form factor. Regards, aeo_tom

[corrupted]

i think you're right. i have an AT box sitting here collecting dust because i can't find a board for it anymore. maybe if i can find a cyrix for it . . .

i'll let ya know.

[vingfel]

Here are some examples where the power was not important.

- The server.
I wanted, at home, to set a small file and printer server. No account or something else, because I don't know, for the moment, how to manage this.
I wanted the server to be absolutely safe, cunsumming as little as possible, and silent when unused because the machine is placed under my bed. It has to have some power , to play MP3, and is connectede to my stereo.
I choosed the following configuration:
OS: eCS. Sure, no winblabla.
NIC: intel pro 10/100.
Processor: Centaur 224 (3x75[MHz]) underclocked at 133[MHz] (2x66[MHz]). With a big cooler, without fan.
I disconnected the power fan, but let the machine open. I wasn't sure if it would work safe, but I tried and it does.
For what I need, the limitation of the transfer is due to the NIC. Not due to the CPU power, or the super ultra extra IDE1000000 IDE drive, connected to a old standard IDE.
In the future, I plan to use this machine as firewall to share internbet, too.

- Work machine.
One of my friends have a AMD Athlon 600, slot A. Big fan for CPU and power supply. A lot of noise. When he have to do some serious work, ie not playing or looking a DVD, the noise quickly becomes unsupportable. He asked me for some help, and I give him a Compaq pentium 233 fanless I found on the road... A silent machine good eought to do its job, without noise. It just needed some unexpensive 128[Mb] DIMM, a hard drive, cd-rom.

- If I have to build a server, I would use the less heating processor on the market, because having no fan means that this mechanical part will not break because not prensent... And, depending of the use, the CPU power is certainly good enought.

In these examples, a VIA C3 seem perfect to me. And a C3 fit on mini-ATX board.

[vingfel]

Just a comment about AT and ATX board.
If there is an electricity breaks, the computers are off.
With an AT motherboard, the computer will turn on, and go back to work alone when the electricity is back.
Not the ATX. The ATX need an operator to push the small button... Not suitable for a device you want to forget whatever happens.
And I have a some ATX box I cannot use now... Marketing pushing you to buy...

[RobRich]

An electricity drop does not effect ATX operation. Most ATX, mATX, and flexATX boards have a BIOS option for "power on after fail". This is to turn the board back on after a power failure. ATX handles this issue in firmware (BIOS), where AT handles it in hardware (switch).

Robert Richmond

[aeo_tom]

Thanks Rob for explaining that important distinction between AT and ATX. Perhaps you or others may care to elaborate some other important distinctions between ATX and AT as well. Here is my problem: I am trying to locate, as I explained above, an AT board to use with this C3. So last week, I found what looks like the ideal board for me: AT, with 1 ISA, 1MB SDRAM, 2 rear USB, integrated AGP and audio, UDMA 100, costs: oops, sorry Tom, no can buy in USA. Now here is the irritating part: I telephoned BIostar to ask why they are selling the M6VLB (the ATX sister of this motherboard that I am interested in using to evaluate the C3--i.e. the M6VLA--, a motherboard which is the identical twin sister of the AT, save for the fact that it is AT, not ATX, and Biostar informs me that they can not import the AT board into the USA. Why, I asked the engineer at Biostar?? Well, he confided, the FCC will not accept it. So, Rob, and any other knowledgable folks, what electrical specification of an AT board prevents its importation into USA?? Here is a board designed and manufactured in 2001, which sells for $51, including AGP graphics, and sound, with the precious ISA slot I require, and the US government refuses to allow it to be imported. WHY? aeo_tom

[ukulele]

Cpu in a can? After a first glance at the headline I conjured up the image of a cpu imbedded in a factory made heatsink fan, an idea I have always thought practical considering the large number of failures as a result of fan failure, improper installation, cheap junk parts and inadequate case cooling. Of course the chip makers would never do that with a built in fan. The fan is a weak link and they would have product liability for the fan and the chip. If the major heat producing chips on the motherboard, and the power supply were integrated with heat sinks that have standard ducting connections to a fan/airpump that could be placed on the floor, cool air could pumped throughout the entire system that could be directed at the hot spots and even thermostatically controlled for greater efficiency. The fan/airpump could even be placed in another room that was cooler and could dampen the sound. A heating element in the intake could be utilized to maintain an even operating temperature even when the system was shut down, which would prevent condensation and dramatically reduce component failure caused by frequent expansion and contraction that is caused by temperature variation. As an added bonus, the load on the power supply would be lower by not having to push half a dozen or more fans. I have been planning for a while to test my theory on an old clunker using old heat sinks, plastic and aluminum containers, flexible plastic tubing and a generous supply of cyno-acrylate and epoxy. I might even seal and duct the case for a remote cooling fan, an idea that I think is overdue. The cpu discussed in this thread might be a perfect candidate for initial experimentation of this idea. It seems to me that this a concept that has been around for years in laptops but not desktops to my knoledge. Does anyone out there know of any good reason why this idea is impractical or inherently flawed? Any input would be graciously accepted.

[corrupted]

an excellent idea ukelele, and it probably is uverdue. i have heard rumours about something like this being tested in IBM australia, but my sources won't confirm or deny it. sounds promising. :p

aeo, i went up to my mate at the PC shop, and he said there isn't anything in australia qhich meets your wishes. i might try another store today, they tend to keep alot of the older equipment. my mate does have a cyrix m266 with board there i'm thinking of buying for that AT case of mine.

[aeo_tom]

Thanks Ukulele for your creative suggestions. Very interesting. Hope we learn more of your experiments. What I also hope to learn, in this case from SYSOPT, are results from a new benchmark. I refer to a measurement of not simply integer or FPU performance on some useful or arcane mathematical task, but also the electrical energy cost associated with execution of this task. Instead of measuring only price performance ratio using PriceWAtch, I would like to see a more realistic assessment of the cost of using a particular cpu. I envision half a dozen contemporary cpu's (some undoubtedly underclocked to achieve the 800mHz limitation of the C3) and the same group overclocked with measurement of both power used and heat generated. Such a test bed would offer as well the delightful opportunity to refute that rascal aeo_tom who insists that AT boards are not less efficient than ATX boards. Use of the Biostar twins M6VLA and M6VLB for example ought to silence his whining. http://www.biostar.com.tw/products/mainboard/socket_370/index.php3
Sysopt probably has the clout to compel the FCC to grant an exception to permit importation of the M6VLA for testing purposes. In the process, we might discover why the FCC refuses to allow that board into USA!!!
Corrupted: you have hit the nail on the head. Why do we have to use obsolete socket 7 motherboards? That's all we can find in the AT form factor with an ISA slot. Ooops, late for my plane, I have to fly down to Venezuela to locate an AT board to test my C3. We don't sell socket 370 AT boards with an ISA slot, anymore in USA. I wonder who benefits from such a policy???

[RobRich]

I believe the people at Biostar simply didn't have a technical answer, thus the likely BS reply. The FCC allows the importation of nearly any m/b into the US, even including AT format boards. The only real requirement I know of is the board is supposed to support a slight clock variance routine to supress fixed frequency emmisions via the "Spread Spectrum" option. Spread spectrum works by modulating timing signal spikes into a flatter curve to reduce electro-magnetic emmisions.

As for an AT C3 board with ISA, you might want to check with Jetway, Azza, or some of the other third-tier board producers. Jetway used to offer socket370 AT boards in the US, but I am unsure of what is currently available.

Robert Richmond

[aeo_tom]

Thanks Rob, for your reply. Much appreciated. I also received an email from the FCC, but it is not directed specifically at the issue of this particular Biostar board. That this is not a trivial issue is seen from some of Scott's other news items, specifically those relating to the anticipated purchase of millions of dollars worth of PC's and the accounts of thousands of workers being laid off, and the ominous news, (I hope it is in error) of AMD being purchased by someone else. Well, the interface between politics, economics, and electronics is this: In your response Rob, you indicated a requirement for AT boards, which perhaps Biostar does not meet? But, can you confirm that all ATX boards meet this same requirement? Still we are left with the conundrum, why no manufacturer supplies ISA slots with or without the AT form factor. Sure they are much slower than PCI slots. We do not however throw away all of our PCI peripherals, just because AGP is faster, do we? Didn't most of us applaud (at least I should state, I applauded) when Via introduced a chip set that would allow P4 to be used with conventional SDRAM? Some things are obsolete even before they are introduced in the marketplace, for example the IBM MCI form factor in the 1980's, or the 8" floppy disk, or the Sony Beta Max. I do not consider CDROM's obsolete, though obviously they are inferior to DVD's. I hope that it will remain possible to acquire CDROM writers. I do not consider ATA 66 obsolete, just (slightly) slower than 100. The tragedy in New York City affects people in different ways. For me, it has reminded me of the suffering of many people at home and abroad for the past half century. I don't think I can do anything to prevent that suffering. At least I would like to not contribute to it. Can't we have a less aggressive society, with more tolerance? What is wrong with permitting the sale of PC motherboards in an AT form factor, even if they don't : "support a slight clock variance routine to supress fixed frequency emmisions via the "Spread Spectrum" option." In my humble opinion, we are in an era of recession. We ought to be focused on helping those less fortunate, and we ought to be thinking of recycling. Rather than just chucking the old AT cases and perfectly fine power supplies onto the junk pile, we ought to be able to acquire a respectable motherboard that would provide a low cost computing solution, so that more people could be employed as programmers, for example. The government is certainly correct to impose standards on the American public. I do not advocate disregarding those standards. But, is this requirement to possess a slight clock variance a genuine benefit to society? The FCC standards ought to demonstrate proven benefit to society. Prohibiting importation of a motherboard because of non-compliance to a meaningless parameter of measurement suggests collusion--in this case between Intel and the government. It is obviously not in Intel's best interests to permit people to purchase a motherboard designed for the C3. It is our task to expose this affront and insist that the FCC relax the regulations, just as is done, for example in permitting trucks and SUV's to flaunt federal emissions control standards. Thanks again Rob, for your informative post. aeo_tom

[corrupted]

you just hit the nail yourself tom. Intel doesn't want people to use the older ISA bus because it "slows down system performance". i wonder if the 2.0 GHz we see from them would have been possible with an ISA slot installed on their mobo's? i doubt it. it also wouldn't surprise me if they are pumping a few hundred million into a few pockets to get the sort of thing we'd like to use kept out of the country. here in australia we tend to follow the example set by the U.S. and england, whether it's good for us or not. thankfully we weren't in total security lockdown here in sydney when the dreadful attacks were happening in NYC. we just didn't need to.

back to the issue, technology wan't things to advance, and the only way this can be done is by changing things. the problem arises when a change is made so quickly there's no time to remove the old hardware, which is still good. i bought a replacement PSU for this ATX case back in march, and the only problem i had was finding a unit with the right switch, which had to be soldered on in the end. i'd like to see these old "dinosaurs" brought back to life. it wouldn't take much, and the hardware exists to do it.

come to think of it, i might be able to get a board for you, but i'd have to switch with a friend and find something his celery would work in. i'll keep ya posted.

[ntwrkwz]

You want to know why there aren't any AT or ISA boards in the US? Two words, niche market. Tom, it may be very important to you to get your 20 or 40 machines going, but 40 motherboards aren't enough for a multi-hundred million dollar manufacturer to even consider bringing them into the country. In Asia and South America, they sell their boards because there is demand and it is easy to do so. They don't sell them in America because there just isn't enough market and all of their profit on these low-margin items would get killed by the extra costs to get them FCC approved and all of that.

In Asia, they want cheap, usable computers, exactly what you are looking for, Tom. In America, everybody wants top of the line, I-can-run-quake-at-0.3fps-more-than-you computers. This means that they would sell about 100 AT/ISA capable boards in the USA, earning them about $1000 in profit, compared to the thousands that they would spend on getting them approved for import.

But enough of that. Tom, I don't know if it will help you any, but I've seen several places on the net that sell ATX-AT and AT-ATX kits so that you can run an old board in a new case or vice-versa. I know that cyberguys(http://www.cyberguys.com) caries the ATX-to-AT kit.

[aeo_tom]

Thanks Corrupted--I appreciate your search. I am not certain whether a 2 Ghz cpu is slowed down by an ISA slot running at 8 mHz. It is my understanding, and I may be in error, perhaps Rob can straighten me out (again) that ISA bus clocks are derived (in boards built after the introduction of PCI) from the PCI bus. As I recall, it is a straight 1/3 reduction, so that if one overclocks the PCI bus, one is also overclocking the ISA bus. Neither bus requires any dependency on the FSB, nor on the AGP port, nor on the memory bus, which is why we can find cpu's running at 2GHZ, memory access at 133, FSB connecting to cache operating at 400 MHz, and PCI running at 33 MHz with AGP 4x, i.e. 266 MHz, and IDE at 100 MHz. There is not, in my opinion, which I admit, may be incorrect, any reason for eliminating ISA architecture in terms of the CPU, memory, or other bus speed components, just as the IDE controller slow speed of 66 or 100 MHz offers no impediment to a Tbird or P4. Sure, they represent bottlenecks in executing application software, but not in designing a motherboard, or constructing a chip set with an integrated AGP controller.

Thanks for your input ntwrkwz!! I appreciate your ideas. I am not certain if they are correct, but they sound reasonable. Certainly most folks these days use ATX. I do not quite understand why people in Europe, South America and Asia would still be purchasing AT motherboards, and not residents of North America. It would seem a priori, that there would be many more AT cases/power supplies in USA than elsewhere. There are modern AT motherboards, with all of the same features of ATX motherboards being designed, built, and sold elsewhere. I think they would sell here to, if they were available. It should not be expensive to receive FCC approval, unless you mean to imply that bribery is a necessary part of FCC certification. It is my impression, especially after reading Rob's post--which seems to me to be quite reasonable--that modern AT motherboards simply do not comply with FCC guidelines, and that therefore, they can not be imported. It is the guidelines which should be changed, and that shouldn't cost thousands of dollars. But, that still does not explain why there are not ATX motherboards with ISA slots. ATX motherboards evidently do meet the FCC guidelines. Are we to believe that the inclusion of multiple ISA slots on an ATX board would cause lack of compliance with FCC regulations? I believe that market forces have little to do with this phenomenon. For example, my old 1991 Festiva is far more desirable to me than any contemporary vehicle because it has automatic seat belts. I hate having to fumble with seat belts. It is so silly to have to engage in an activity rendered obsolete by technology. But no new car has them. If you ask the manufacturers, they will tell you that it is because air bags have replaced them. Nonsense. Air bags are wonderful, and automatic seat belts are wonderful. We ought to have both ISA and PCI. I am afraid your point about converting from AT power supply to ATX power supply doesn't quite accomplish what I need. I seek to acquire modern AT motherboards (to employ the Via C3,) socket 370, with FSB 133, capable of accessing at least 1 GB memory (preferably at double speed), integrated AGP 4x, integrated audio, integrated modem/LAN, couple of USB ports, ATA 100, WITH AT LEAST TWO ISA slots---at 8 MHz operating at least 100 x faster than the custom designed boards I place in them. There are NO such motherboards available. NONE. I am therefore, reluctantly, willing to accept the same configuration in an ATX board, and then purchase the additional, unneccessary new ATX cases discarding all my fully usable AT cases. AGAIN, there are none. ISA falls in the same category as automatic seat belts. Not Available. Yesterday, I followed Rob's suggestion to track down Jetway and AZZa motherboards. I finally ordered AZZA motherboards with three ISA slots-- SOCKET 7!. Wow. What a pitiful end to an unrewarding week of effort. aeo_tom

[corrupted]

tom, i wondered up to the shop again yesterday, and i found that i can buy the socket7 board you want, but it's just a bit short in the features, having no AGP slot. i decided it was time to get my second system running again, so i'm investing in the one mobo i could find and an intel cpu. i'm going to upgrade the cpu at a later date. still, i fail to see the use in upgrading the technology while it is still a viable solution. there are some like us in the world who realise how important these things are, but logic would seem to escape many.

the only problem i could find in your tech bit was about the P4 FSB. it's not exactly a 400MHz bus, but a 4x100MHz. the difference is minute, but it would make a great difference if the two could be compared.

can someone help me decide something? the intel cpu i'm getting (233mmx) will have it's own fan, but i have the option of putting on it a K6-2 HSF for an extra $15. should i spend the money now, or wait till i have a CPU worthy of it? i already have the silicon paste, and shouldn't need anything sronger for a socket7 intel, but i have no real idea what fan will be on it. if it's not chunky enough, should i upgrade now while the prices are steady or wait for these fans to drop in price?

[in2golf]

If you want an ATX with an ISA slot get an ABIT VL6. It is a socket 370 and has 1 AGP, 5 PCI, 1 ISA, and 1 AMR. Price $65.00 and technology associates of computers has them. May this helps tom. Asus tek also has a mobo that is AT and is socket 370 with 2 ISA. The orice is $29.00 at www.justdeals.com.

[in2golf]

the asus tek also has an AGP slot

[corrupted]

I admit, these boards look pretty good, and they're cheaper than anything i can get here. looks to be the best deal for this sort of thing on the net, tom. thanks to in2golf for this site :)

[in2golf]

No problem corrupted. I also found a socket 7. Super 7 baby AT. with 1 AGP, 3 PCI, 3 ISA, 4 Simm, 2 Dimm, and 1MB cache for $69.99. It is a FIC VA-503+ at www.pcprogress.com. There is also many others that are AT/ATX Baby AT @ www.pricewatch.com. Click mobo then click super 7.

[in2golf]

No problem corrupted. I also found a socket 7. Super 7 baby AT. with 1 AGP, 3 PCI, 3 ISA, 4 Simm, 2 Dimm, and 1MB cache for $69.99. It is a FIC VA-503+ at www.pcprogress.com. There is also many others that are AT/ATX Baby AT @ www.pricewatch.com. Click mobo then click super 7.

[in2golf]

I just found another good one. Asus Tek socket 370 with 1 AGP, 3 PCI, 2 ISA, 3 Dimm and is DMA33 for $29.00 Baby AT. New???? Maybe maybe not. It's worth checking out. www.justdeals.com

[Speed]

Great!! This thread has been the most interesting one I have read in a long time! I mean as far as oposing opinions and such. Its good to be part of such a great board!!

[corrupted]

thanks for the great links golf. i don't know if there's anything of relevance to me right now, but i'll keep a lookout for it. these links are a great help.

[aeo_tom]

Thanks again Golf and Corrupted. Just a follow up note here: On Tuesday, I telephoned Just Deals to purchase the 29$ Asus Tek motherboard they had advertized on Pricewatch, that was the Mel-b. Not a bad board, but with FSB 66, not really what I needed to test the C3. However, while speaking with their sales guy, I mentioned that I was really looking to purchase the ME-99B, because it supports FSB 133. Lo and behold, the guy has a dozen boards, well, I guess you know I purchased three immediately. One drawback of this board is the absence of any AGP slot, but I don't require a game type environment. So, it is a much more cheerful week than last week. This morning I found Golf's comments much appreciated. thanks again fellows for your help. Regards, aeo_tom

[in2golf]

No problem Tom. I'm glad they had what you are looking for. It's all out there it's just a matter of finding it and knowing where to look.

[Fatbot]

Now before you laugh, I use a via C3-800(133fsb) in my server(GigaByte GA-6VA7+, 30gig HD, 512meg ECC mem, FreeBSD 4.1). Now I found this processor the most comfortable to live with in my room while sleeping. It only has one fan, the power supply fan. Yea it isn't as fast as my 850mhz celeron I used to have in the machine, but I also don't have to listen to the **** CPU-fan as it progressivly sucks in dust and starts making more and more noise. Plus I also get amusement at running something completely oddball for a server, i.e. not AMD or Intel. In case you think I'm insane and should dump the C3 for an Intel or AMD. Well maybe I am insane, but sitting next to my C3 is a 1.2Ghz TBird, a dual PIII-600, a dual PIII-933, a P4-1.7Ghz, and a bunch of old computer artifacts. So I have no lack of power sitting at my desk. So to end my rambling and get to the point, this **** C3 powered server is F#@king quiet!! No noise at all! Okay I'm done.

[aeo_tom]

Thanks for this interesting news. Just a followup question, where did you find the c3 866? I have been unable to locate one here in USA. Thanks for your post. Tom

[Fatbot]

I purchased my C3 800 at www.TigerDirect.com. The fastest version they have is the 800mhz one. No 866.




Originally posted by aeo_tom
Thanks for this interesting news. Just a followup question, where did you find the c3 866? I have been unable to locate one here in USA. Thanks for your post. Tom

[twabzie]

I wish I can find socket7 boards as cheap as you guys can find it in the USA. A socket7 board here is about the same as a new socket A motherboard for the athlon :)

[corrupted]

from memory, the C3 uses a socket 370 doesn't it?

[aeo_tom]

Yes, it does use socket 370, as Scott pointed out in his initial posting for this thread. Just a follow up to the previous comment about the prices for motherboards, and a bit of clarification re some of my earlier statements. The $29 boards which I had found, turned out to be NOT AT boards, but ATX boards, so, I returned them. The MEL-b board was not suitable, I thought, because the FSB was only 66 MHz, and it would thus not be usable with the Via C3. While most people are interested in raw computer speed, I remain interested in a low cost, low energy requiring solution, so I hope Via will make a push into USA. Right now, from my perspective, one can obtain superior computers in Asia, though, as pointed out, the prices are high. Tom:)

[corrupted]

and there's nothing new from the aussie end either :(