Security & Freedom

[club_med]

My opinion is that in order to have more/better security it is necessary to make sacrifices in the filed of freedom.

Why do I think this ?

Example 1:
Camera surveillance on all streets and at all squares.
This would infringe on our individual freedom, but it would bring with it possibly more security.

Example 2:
Surveillance of communication systems like the (alleged existence of ) Echelon.
This again would increase security because it would allow the government to intercept and receive early warning of attempted terrorist attacks. However at the same time it would once again infringe upon our individual rights and our freedom.

So, what do you think ?.

Would you be prepared to give up some rights and some of your freedom for more security ?.

cm.

*******! wrong forum, please move! - sorry***

[Fingers]

The answer is YES - security and freedom can co-exist.

Law abiding citizens need not be placed under tighter restriction, so long as we begin to 1) enforce EXISTING laws diligently, and 2)start THOROUGHLY checking the backround of immigrants. (no credible history... no entry)

[BBA]

Security AND freedom DO coexist.

What CM is referring to is PRIVACY and security. Camera's on street corners invade NO persons privacy, as I would think that being in public makes you exactly that...public.

Now, cameras in your house are a TOTALLY different thing.

[SpookyEddy]

Rumours of the FBI installing more "carnivore" listening posts into US ISP cores to monitor internet traffic are growing.

Is this an invasion of privacy?

One of the main points of contention is that the FBI hardware provides no audit trail.

Surely international terrorists are capable of encrypting communications?

Just my 2c's worth.

Eddy

[Barney]

Yes, they can co-exist. The Netherlands is a very safe place with good security and yet we have freedom. Our weapon laws are more strict than some other country's, but no-one here seems to make a big deal out of it because this country is so safe that no-one needs a weapon. But I believe we can have a gun collections (3 guns = a collection) and you can own guns if you're registered at some target shooting club or something.

Anyway, at what point does security get in the way of freedom? I guess that answer would be different for everyone.

[Scorpio69]

They can co-exist, to a point. It's a very delicate balance.

Don't forget McCarthyism here, people had their careers and even lives ruined, just because they were open-minded and went to one meeting of the Communist Party. Some did not even realize they were attending a Communist meeting.

Also, "security" is a relative term here; no one can ever truly be secure.

[club_med]

All very goog points.

Perhaps as some have suggested I should have chosen different wording.

It is invasion of our privacy which increases security. The less invasion of privacy the less 'secure' we are.

This is neither good nor bad, to me it is but a fact.

club_med.

[Scorpio69]

CM, that can go both ways however, depending on the intent of the person that's invading your privacy. As per my example above, when the FBI went on a national witch-hunt to remove communist "enemies of the state".

[jad1097]

Example 1: Already done! Not on every street corner yet but they are flipping everywhere. They are on EVERY main intersection in the town I was living in last year. The town I live in now has them hidden better but they are still there.

Example 2: Already done! Echelon exists and is illegal according to the EU (http://www.romulus2.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000056.html)


Privacy no longer exists for the most part and it will just get worse from here on out. The NSA has been watching and listening for decades. Don’t allow this incident further infringe on your rights.

[stooge007]

my vote for yes, then can both exist! good points!

[stylin19]

I can't speak about countries other than the U.S. ( When in Rome, I have to do what the Romans do)
I am not willing to sacrifice any freedom for increased security.

To get back into the financial district on Monday, police were asking for 2 pieces of identification. What the heck is that ?
Show me your papers!!! Sound familiar ? That is flat out wrong.

If i give up some freedoms for security with THIS crisis, what additional freedoms will I be asked/required to give up with the NEXT crisis ?

Congress is already floating a National ID card idea. Nevermind that everyone is already required to have an Social Security Number.

Sorry....not today beansy !