MS listened... WinXP WPA changes

[SoopaStar]

I wonder if it takes into account the bios revision number? What happens if you update that?

Paul

[CoNeSsIuS]

I would have to agree with the above statement. I do relize that you don't change your bios that much but there is a potential for it. Unlike most people I always change my hardware at home trying and testing new things so I don't think Microsoft will be too happy with me. http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/smile.gif

[Rhino302]

Why is the NIC such a big deal? I have three different types of NICs, and depending on my needs at the time, any of the three types could be in one machine.

[CMonster]

I think the important thing is that Microsoft "listened" to the consumer -a clear indication that they "get it."

[Willie]

This is interesting, indeed! Well, I absolutely refuse to make the change. WIN98 is working perfectly, is stable enough & fast enough, and runs everything I need.

It also allows me to boot to DOS without a floppy... and to specify certain things in my CONFIG.SYS & AUTOEXEC.BAT files to optimize performance.

What abou tthe other significant issue: Unprotected, WIDE-OPEN "Full Raw Sockets". This opens all KINDS of cans of worms, viruses, DDOS attacks, trojans... etc.

For more info, see: http://grc.com/dos/intro.htm

It's interesting that MS changed their minds bout the "activation"... now if only they'd do the same about THIS serious security risk! The same people complaining about the "activation" should also be concerned about the gaping security hole that "Full Raw Sockets" pose not only to themselves, but to the Internet, as a whole.

Willie...

[Surfer55]

What changes? you call this changes? the main issue still there: WPA. I`m not about(and never will) to call microsoft and ask permission to activate something I pay for. let alone giving them info about my hardware.

I DON`T THINK SO!!!!

[Jim9999]

Raw socket support is nothing new in OS's, and not just MS OS's. XP is out there now and has been for a long time with this support, and the Internet is still there. The Raw Socket was some pretty good hype for the magazines, and if there's any attacks based on it in XP, it's not because it wasn't available before. But now, any hacker that may not have heard of it was told by ZDNET and the like.

Your philosophy is sound, though. If there's nothing you want in a new OS, then by all means, don't get it. Upgrading just for the sake of upgrading doesn't make a lot of sense. I like the Fast User Switching, Remote Desktop, the firewall, and several other new things about it, so I'm investing kind of heavy in it (both off the shelf and OEM boxes).

I'm not sure what oyu could have in real mode (autoexec.bat/config.sys) that would optimmize anything very much, but like I said... if there's nothing in XP for you, then XP may not be worth it to you.

Surfer: You don't have to call them. You are not asking permission, you are making sure the software you license is not abused. And lastly, specific hardware info is NOT transmitted. There is guaranteed non-uniqueness in the data sent. It is not an inventory list, and it cannot be reverse engineered to determine your configuration.

[This message has been edited by Jim9999 (edited 09-07-2001).]

[falcompsx]

so 90% of machines won't require activation...BUT, i work for an OEM type company(i prefer to remain annoymous for obvious reasons) and i can tell you right now, that the coding scheme used in the bios is even worse. if you so much as flash your bios, your copy of windows is now worthless. sure you could flash yoru bios back to how it was before, but that would be pointless, you just eliminated the fix/upgrade/new support added by the new bios. THIS IS FACT. Existing bios lock mechinisims use the DMI pool area and can be added back in without erasing the bios and reprogramming. the new version is specific to a specific bios revision. coded into the actual code that makes up your bios. M$ just prevented bios upgrade's on all preinstalled windows machines.

[Scorpio69]

I think this is going to be the last straw for a lot of people. Unfortunately Microsoft does not care about people. They are going to make a lot of money from the majority, and that's all that matters. Most users will never be aware of this.

[gwinters]

The NIC has a unique MAC address that is probably used in the MS scheme. I also change my hardware often, as it is the only way to keep up on the newest technology. I guess I won't be using XP for quite a while!

[BBA]

The real details are here:
MS WPA Document (http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/basics/activation/windowsproductactivationtechnicalmarketbulletin.do c)

As for BIOS changes:


Every single piece of hardware could be changed on a PC with SLP and no reactivation would be required – even the motherboard could be replaced as long as the replacement motherboard was original equipment manufactured by the OEM and retained the proper BIOS. In the unlikely scenario that the BIOS information does not match, the PC would need to be activated within 30 days by contacting the Microsoft activation center via the Internet or telephone call – just as in a retail scenario.


This means bios updates are possible and only require one reactivation per bios update, but all other hardware can be changed at any time.

[This message has been edited by BBA (edited 09-08-2001).]

[surrealchereal]

I am both touched and honored by the kindness and benevolence shown by Microsoft Corporation with their latest announcement regarding the XP operating system.

The generosity they have shown in allowing me to actually add or subtract a minimal amount of equipment to my computer is an act of kindness I will never forget.

I understand completely their unwillingness to allow a BIOS update. After all, I'm sure they have been assured and have confidence in the Phoenix Corporation to care for our BIOS much better than the lowly consumer ever could. Microsoft, you heard our crys and felt our pain.<center>Thank You Microsoft!</center>

Well, got to get reading my new book,
"Learn Linux in 24 Hours"
Followed by, Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About HTML Tags, but Were Afraid to Ask!

Edit by surreal.

[This message has been edited by surrealchereal (edited 09-08-2001).]

[Surfer55]

Too bad they are heading this way.I use to be a big fan of their products but this is it. I think is time to star learning LINUX.

[statiatech]

Well I know this forum does not support cracks but if I deside to buy this software I will be looking for the WinXP activation crack.

[Willie]

I remember reading that a "crack" was already found... only about 2 weeks after the thing was introduced! I don't remember where, though.

As for the "Raw Sockets" being available in other operating systems, yes, this is true... but those systems had reasonable levels of SECURITY, and were usually being run on systems owned by people who both KNEW ABOUT and CARED about the proper use and protection of those powerful features.

Look at the proliferation of CODE RED and other worms which attack MS Windows-based systems. As demonstrated on the GRC.COM site, Windows (for GOD-KNOWS-WHAT-REASON!) has a hidden, built-in WEB server! A hacker's PORT SCANNERS go probing the WEB, looking for those, and when found, infects them. With WIN-XP having pure Raw Sockets available, these hackers can launch their "zombie bot" software from multiple infected hosts, and literally bring chaos to the WEB.

We've all seen the effects of DDOS attacks... choking the bandwidth of target sites with "bad data" at incredible volumes. Until now, there were ways to trace the infected systems, and potentially notify their owners. With Raw Sockets, the hacker can spoof his identity completely... making the attacks appear to originate from MS itself, or AOL, or Excite... any source he dreams up... with virtually no hope of tracking the true sources of the attacks, allowing them to continue with impunity.

This is supposed to be a good thing? GRC.COM has a far more detailed explanation of all this than I could ever provide. It boggles the mind, though... ***WHY*** would MS want to make such GAPING holes in the security of people's computers? The most significant threat of XP's Raw Sockets, is that these will be CONSUMER machines... potentially MILLIONS of them... with UNPROTECTED Raw Sockets just BECKONING to the miscreants out there who are drooling at the chance to abuse them! (I'm sure they're counting the days 'till XP's release!) Systems run by people who have ZERO CLUE as to the monster living under the cover.

Willie...

[elroy]

I built a new system in February with an Epox board. I have already flashed the bios 4 times. I am not calling Microsucks every time I want to do this.

[BBA]

DO YOU PEOPLE NOT READ?

All I see is a general b!tch session here based on rumors most who have commented on do not know the facts.

Bios CAN be flashed ( Read the paper )

You can change ANYTHING you want and still work ( Read the paper )

Again... HERE IS THE WAY IT WORKS (http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/basics/activation/windowsproductactivationtechnicalmarketbulletin.do c)

Geez.....

[DoctorV]

I am currently running Windows XP Professional without the activation and it is really great. I can`t say that anything is "slower" than earlier except maybe 1 or 2 control panel applets but otherwise speed is great. Quake III runs a bit faster than when I was running Win98 and more or less the same as when I run 2000. Anyway I pulled out my harddisk and threw it into my Athlon 900 box and everything booted up and ran fine. I pulled it out and threw it into my PIII800 and after detecting and installing devices everything ran great. Then I put it back into my Athlon 1400 where i`m keeping it for awhile. I`m not into using cracked os`s but sometimes you have no choice. Rest assured I will buy it when it comes out but I will stick to my "no activation code version" that I have and purchase the license to stay legal. If I buy something... it`s mine.

The firewall works great. It is a stealth firewall... beautiful. Shipping Geforce2 drivers where slow but 12.41 for 2000 fixed that. USB, DMA for KT266 and even digital support for my Live is built into the OS.

So far so good...

[BBA]

So you still did not read...

MS has NO WAY of knowing your exact hardware!

The only thing WPA does is to let them know if your hardware CHANGED!

You people have bias's based on anti-success. I would expect this level of reply only from people who have a drive full of warez.

[suzuki1]

I am using windows98 and have had no problems. But why dont everyone just upgrade to windows 2000? Windows 2000 and XP are built on the same technology.. am I right?
I will be going to windows 2000 not XP. I just dont need the problems.

[Gooberslot]

This new scheme is even worse. Suppose you buy a computer then over time upgrade everything, including the motherboard. Now you've got a useless copy of Winblows.

I'm sticking with Win98 as long as possibly then I'll either warez XP and crack it or go Linux. I'm not buying a product when they play these type of games.

[madfish]

BBA:
I've read the link you suggusted and I'll try XP when the time comes, I'm not worryed about the actvation thing, the only thing I change alot is the memory sticks and once a year a new Hdd. Great link btw BBA, Thanks.
Madfish
Edit: as for the raw sockets, I run a nat router and zonealarm. they'll find a way in if they want to bad enough anyhow..

[This message has been edited by madfish (edited 09-09-2001).]

[conjh13]

Still not good enough for me. Until they totally get rid of the stupid activation system, I'm not buying. Micros**t has no right to know ANY of my hardware config, and there's no **** way they're going to get it either.

[conjh13]

That's a very good point Gooberslot, and it's one I've made often myself. I build my own systems, and when the time comes to build my next one, I DON'T want to be shelling out another hundred bucks just to be allowed to use something I already paid 200 bucks for. No way. Also, I'm surprised at how many people believe all the propaganda M$ throws out (they're already keeping copies of your email behind your back, and you really think they won't record your hardware specs???) - and many of these people are guys who really should know better! It reminds me of a particular computer game called Lemmings.

Edit: Perhaps I should add, I do not have a drive full of warez. I do however use a few illegal M$ products, and at this point I might say I'm proud of it. All their lies have made me disgusted and sick to the bone.

[This message has been edited by conjh13 (edited 09-10-2001).]

[BBA]

This new scheme is even worse. Suppose you buy a computer then over time upgrade everything, including the motherboard. Now you've got a useless copy of Winblows.


NO, that is NOT a good point.
In fact...YOU ARE WRONG.

If you knew what you were talking about, you would not make that statement at all. All that is required if you completely change the system is one call to MS. You do not even have to tell them what changes you made.

The whole thing MS is concerned with is when fifteen copies of the same CD show up being activated by different users all over the internet. In that case, I do not blame them.

You should look at lengths companies go through to prevent software theft...look at Bloomberg for example...everytime you open it, it tells Bloomberg your using it on this particular PC...so if you had that serial number installed on any other PC, it makes that PC stop working.

MS has nothing on them or some other companies, yet people still use the softwares.

[mict2]

Is there any way to keep my hard drive data and change to a new motherboard?? The hard drive has Win XP and when I changed the new board (Mainboard with a 1.0g Anthlon, sorry it may not be accurate) the system would not boot to windows. I got the blue error screen. I have read some things about WPA. Is that my problem or is it there more to it? My old motherboard is dying and has burnt material oozing from the diodes. I'm not a tech just a hobby. Thanks very much.
Mike

[SmacU2]

check the sysopt technical forums for an answer with your xp question the Apps and OS's forum is also very good. Theres always some one knowledgeable willing to help.

[qualserve]

Jeeeesh, I am just amazed at the "head in sand" attitude of those who, after having the facts and supporting links listed, still insist that they can't upgrade Bios, motherboards, Nics, etc.
Long live XP!! Nice try BBA. See you in the "other" forum!:cool: