Latest on the RC5 State of Georgia lawsuit

[NoCtrl]

I am equally uncomfortable by the unreasoned response in the Internet community in jumping to his defense," McNet said

I don't know about the rest of you, but I would like to hear what is considered an unreasoned response in order to decide if I am to continue participating in RC5. http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/frown.gif

[This message has been edited by NoCtrl (edited 08-01-2001).]

[randy48]

I would more then bet 'ol nugget would start singing a different tune if the majority of us just quit! If that would happen, him and his buds would be out at least $6K

I think I might start looking for a REAL non-profit reseach group to start crunching for, not something like Intel who's out to make a profit from their cancer research project!

[Mntsnow]

McNet...Just ticked me off big time http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/frown.gif

Hmmmm....I might just have to rethink my support of Dnet. http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/frown.gif

[Scorpio69]

What a punk. Covering your a__ is one thing, but this guy's too much. Anybody know if there is another company doing the same thing as distributed.net? Or if there's an application one can download?

[daveleau]

If anyone wants to let this guy know what they think of him for his statements, they can email him witht he email on this <a href="http://www.distributed.net/credits.html">page</a> . They misspelled his name int he article as McNet, instead of McNett.


[This message has been edited by daveleau (edited 08-02-2001).]

[vintron]

SETI@home is completely non-profit based.
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

[Scorpio69]

Thanks for giving Nugget's email. I emailed him and he directed me to his response at Anandtech:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=39&threadid=516818&start=1

You can read my two cents there.

[Target]

Obviously the reaction of the university and the legal system in this state is an uninformed one.

IMHO, its sort of hard to accuse someone of taking something, or using something, that otherwise wouldn't have existed. Ok ok, you can make a case that the unused CPU cycles would have existed regardless....but lets get real here for a second. The correct measure of action in this case is a slap on the wrist, and an assurance that it won't happen again without permission before hand.....not legal action against the individual

Can you really claim monetary damages for something that you were perfectly willing to let go to waste in the first place? This software didn't interfere with normal computer operations, and simply made use of CPU processing time, and power, that otherwise would have been idle.....generating zero dollars of revenue, and incurring no additonal cost. To claim that you require reimbursement of a specific monetary value for something that otherwise would have earned you nothing to begin with, and cost you nothing, is rediculous!!!!

I think that the university/state in this case is making a HUGE mistake if they proceed with prosecution, instead of taking advantage of the opportunity they have to place themselves in a very positive light as a partner in trying to solve an issue through distributed computing.

I for one plan to write to the governor of the state, expressing my disappointment with their current position, and expressing my intent to boycott all that is related to their state (spending money there, traveling there, purchasing products from vendors located there, supporting their causes, etc etc) until they reverse their stance on this issue.

I urge you all to do the same.

[omeyehead]

Target has pretty much summed up my feelings on this subject. Being from Texas I could see our attorney general engaging in this same tactic, with a penalty equally as stiff! Maybe its that old southern mentality. Yassa boss I believe thats what it is.

[Detemeat]

I'm thinking that Nugget dropped the ball on this one. Maybe I'll start checking out one of the folding protiens projects or something on that order.
Dete

[engracio]

All I have to say is I vote with my feet. http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/frown.gif http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/frown.gif http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/frown.gif Two years is long enough and for this....


e

[This message has been edited by engracio (edited 08-02-2001).]

[aldtech]

I have a feeling that the state of Georgia is going to proceed to prosecute David just so they can justify the expense/time and effort spent on investigating the case. The bottom line is someone has to pay for it and if they, the state of Georgia, can make David McOwen look guilty enough to at least get fined then they might be able to recoup their costs. I think if this happens that it will really be ironic that David will be paying for a "crime" that had no actual monetary or software/hardware damage just so he can pay the state's bill. I think that is the real crime.
It is unfortunate that today’s criminal justice system is more about making people pay for the cost of investigation instead of actual justice.

Just my two cents worth,

AL

[e.coli]

Let's see. He installs software without permission. That would seem to be enough for a reprimand. I wonder if they have done an audit of their machines to see who is running IM?

Okay, the amount of money involved seems reasonable... $15000 for manhours/materials $500,000 for the lawyers.

But it took them 18 months to investigate???
And who turned it over to the state? And why?

Nugget could only be accused of foot-in-mouth-disease, an affliction that I am too oft accused.

If David had released a worm, a virus or a trojan I could understand the harshness of the retribution (for that is what it seems like to me). I can even see some issue that this was a program that had commercial benefit for someone outside of Dekalb using the school's resources without recompense of any kind.

A slap on the wrist, censure, even termination maybe. But 30 years!

Never underestimate the stupidity of people in government.

[randy48]

Here's a copy of the e-mail I just send to Nugget, with complete headers so you know it was sent!

From: "Julio Garlando" <garlan@webound.com>
To: <nugget@distributed.net>
Subject: rc5, georgia, and the world
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:11:25 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01C11B3B.7CAB3520"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C11B3B.7CAB3520
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I've really been having fun with this RC5 project! I've been at it now =
for almost a year and have moved from the bottom of the pile to the top =
100!

You must be nuts! The statements you've made to the media and on =
Anandtech. You and your buddies are really starting to look like some of =
the biggest @$$holes around!=20

Have you taken a look the petition? At the RC5 individual stats? McOwen =
has the support of many people from many different teams! Right now, =
you're on the virge of losing many of the major players in this little =
game! There are a lot more distributed computing projects out there that =
are not affiliated with Distributed.net and many of us are ready to =
move!

I highly recommend that you kick back and do some serious thinking! And =
then contact the "press" and issue a statement that at least does not =
condemn McOwen as you have done! And do it soon!

If not, myself and hundreds of others will show the distributed =
computing community how much you guys that stand to gain ($$$$$) from =
these projects, appreciate us! Without the hundreds of thousands of us, =
Distributed.net would follow suit with the rest of the "Dot.com's" and =
disappear!

McOwen has not been found guilty, but by your comments, you've already =
condemned him!

By the way, I am sending this from a shared machine at work and guess =
what, it is a government machine! If you care to respond, please use my =
home address below!

Randy Sundquist

Randy48 - Team Sysopt/Tweakit

randy48@cablemo.net

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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I've really been having fun with this RC5 =
project! I've=20
been at it now for almost a year and have moved from the bottom of the =
pile to=20
the top 100!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>*</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>You must be nuts! The statements you've made to =
the media=20
and on Anandtech. You and your buddies are really starting to look like =
some of=20
the biggest @$$holes around! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>*</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Have you taken a look the petition? At the RC5 =
individual=20
stats? McOwen has the support of many people from many different teams! =
Right=20
now, you're on the virge of losing many of the major players in this =
little=20
game! There are a lot more distributed computing projects out there that =
are not=20
affiliated with Distributed.net and many of us are ready to =
move!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>*</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I highly recommend that you kick back and do =
some serious=20
thinking! And then contact the "press" and issue a statement that at =
least does=20
not condemn McOwen as you have done! And do it soon!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>*</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>If not,*myself and hundreds of others will =
show the=20
distributed computing community how much you guys that stand to gain =
($$$$$)=20
from these projects, appreciate us! Without the hundreds of thousands of =
us,=20
Distributed.net would follow suit with the rest of the "Dot.com's" and=20
disappear!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>*</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>McOwen has not been found guilty, but by your =
comments,=20
you've already condemned him!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>*</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>By the way, I am sending this from a =
shared machine=20
at work and guess what, it is a government machine! If you care to =
respond,=20
please use my home address below!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>*</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Randy Sundquist</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>*</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Randy48 - Team Sysopt/Tweakit</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>*</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><A=20
href=3D"mailto:randy48@cablemo.net">
randy48@cablemo.net</A></FONT></DIV><=
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[This message has been edited by SysOpt (edited 08-02-2001).]

[kriisten]

seems to me like McNetthead is just covering his **** so he does not become part of these so-called charges that are being leveled against this guy!

I agree that McNett needs to grow some McNutt's and realize that he is biting the hands of those who feed him!

and, btw...why doesn't sysopt consider taking the banner ad on the home page off ie: the RC5 cracking team/win $1000 bucks ?


[This message has been edited by kriisten (edited 08-02-2001).]

[randy48]

Well, Nugget responded back fairly quickly! It seems he feels he has said no wrong!

It's a sad day!

[izzzy12k]

I think as a model of what can/will happen if McOwen is not at least partially supported by D'net.

We outta coordinate a black out day/week with all the other teams!

[randy48]

I would recommend that anyone disagreeing with this latest betrayal on the part of Distributed.net (Nugget's comments to the media/Georgia) write him and let him know! He feels that I am wrong and anyone that thinks the same way as I do is also wrong!


nugget@distributed.net


I am planning on leaving the project effective August 6, 2001. I will spend some time between now and this weekend looking for a suitable project to move to. Any "not-for-profit" (on the part of the sponsor) recommendations would be appreciated! I will say I am not interested in Seti! Possibly a cancer research project (not Intel)!

It may take awhile to reconfigure my herd, so please don't condemn me for any RC5 blocks submitted after the 6th!

Any new Sysopt/Tweakit team members I promised blocks to...sorry, but I refuse to support an effort that has sponsors (dnet) that will condemn someone (stating McOwen installed the client without permission) without it first being proven!

And also the fact that Distributed.net has also "teamed up" with United Devices, a FOR PROFIT distributed computing oganization has got me wondering! What is going to be coded into the next client versions coming out? Couldn't it be possible for the next RC5 client to "look like it's crunchin blocks", but in reality be "working for free" doing something for these guys? Just my opinion! I have not heard anything, but it's a thought that has crossed my mind over the last few months!

Distributed Computing Technologies, Inc, distributed.net, announced on November 27th, 2000 that it has entered a strategic partnership with United Devices, Inc. Based in Texas, United Devices (www.ud.com) is a leading commercial developer of distributed computing technology.

[engracio]

Randy48,

Not only do it agree with you 100%, I have executed it. The question now is do I stay with SysOpt or somewhere else. That union with UD have always nagged me in the back of my mind. As others, I will not support any for profit projects. After all it is my money I am giving away. http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/frown.gif http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/frown.gif http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/frown.gif


e

[This message has been edited by engracio (edited 08-02-2001).]

[rshield]

Where can I read the comments that have caused all these remarks? I haven't seen the press release.

[Mntsnow]

Well...I have finished removing the DNET client from my Home network and will remove it from my work computers tomorrow when I return there. I too will have a few random cows that are out on the range that might take a while to get roped in so the client can be removed but I assure you they will!.

I'm done http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/frown.gif

[samwichse]

I recommend trying Prime95. It uses your computer to search for the new largest Mersenne prime.

[randy48]

MY new user name on the Dnet stas http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/smile.gif
http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/psummary.php3?id=317193

[SickPup404]

RSHIELD, take a look at the top of this page: http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/Forum1/HTML/000185.html

Refers to Excite.com, but the same quotes can be found over at ZDNet.

BTW, I never thought a news tidbit I pointed out would get everyone galvanized into action - let alone my first one! http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/smile.gif

[Mntsnow]

http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/psummary.php3?id=327104

and Mine!

[daveleau]

My email to him and my thoughts:

Mr. McNett,
I read the article on Excite.com and I read your thoughts pertaining to the article on Anandtech. I have been a member of Sysopt/Tweakit for some time and have contributed my fair share to your cause. I must say though, that your posting on Anandtech did little but boost what the Excite.com article states--you do not support those that work for you. I know that it is says in the rules that noone is to install a client without first obtaining permission, BUT it takes little common sense that a man should not be treated like a serial killer because he installed the client on the systems at work. It amaxzes me that you have that little common sense and makes me want to join the ranks of those leaving your cause. Yes, the excite.com article may have taken things out of context, but your own words on Anandtech show your true colors. Rapists and murderers often do not get life in prison. David McOwen is being put up for life in prison! (Before you jump to conclusions, realize that life in prison is a 30 year sentence. It does not mean that you stay there until you die.) I am currently searching to see what my friends at Sysopt are doing and where they are going. I can assure you though that I will not be on RC5 for long, unless you can justify dnet's lack of support for this man. Yes, he broke the rules, but the penalty does not fit the crime. it does not take seeing the evidence to know he did not do enough to warrant a 30 year prison term. Fired, yes...prison and $400K...you are an idiot if you think it is even possibly justifyable.
Siincerely,
David Leaumont

I really don't want to leave RC5, but I cannot see giving this organization a penny. Is there anything that is similar, with stats like that posted on the Virus proxy?

[izzzy12k]

I think it is best to just quit and look for another distributed type of project.

Just want to emphasize, that I love being part of Team SysOpt!

It is just sad that the project organizers/coordinators at D'net will turn their back on you with the quickness.

They obviously do not appreciate our help and it's time to move on...

izzy

[izzzy12k]

Began Shuting down the D'net client on all PC's...

http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/psummary.php3?id=227864

So what project is next???

izzy

[Detemeat]

I got mine uninstalled. I'm trying to reach Jig to let him know whats up. Now I'm waiting to see what our next project will be.
Dete

[daveleau]

http://www.paulsonator.com/mcowen/

[Gouki-]

<sigh> After reading all this...I guess I'm done as well. http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/frown.gif

It's been a long time since I've found something like this that kept my interest and pushed me to always do better...to recruit more cows, etc. And now...it's over.

I realize it's not the end of the world...but I know that I will definitely miss particpating.

Oh well...life goes on.

[SysOpt]

I'd always be interested in starting multiple distributed computing efforts besides RC5 for SysOpt, but I'm sorry to see everyone abandon RC5.

For profit doesn't mean "greedy bastards", and I'm not sure if nuggets comments are really as offensive as everyone thinks - at least he agreed that the punishment is severe. Dnet has to have a policy that there software should only be installed with permission.

To outright say that the university/state is stupid to want to punish someone (to some degree) for installing the software without permission implies that dnet supports people installing the client anywhere and everywhere regardless of who owns the computer(s) or whether or not permission has been granted.

[randy48]

Scott, the fact is it has not been admitted to or proven in a court of law that David installed the client without permission! Nugget came straight out and stated that David was wrong! Nugget offered no deminstration that the Distributed.net RC5 client was of no danger to the computers, network, school, or government! I agree that Dnet should mantain a netural stance on the matter, but if the client as we are led to believe is safe, Dnet should have at least said so and stood behind us and shown the state of Georgia that they were on a witch hunt.

The more I think about this, the more I tend to believe my thoughts that the RC5 client isn't what Dnet claims it to be! I am more inclined to believe that the "blocks" we have been submitting for so long have something to do with the partnership/sellout to United Devices which is a "for profit" distributed computer "wholesaler!"

[SysOpt]

Indeed, those are valid points and I agree that Dnet isn't handling things the best way possible. If the majority of SysOpt's RC5 team wants to bail, I'd be happy to help coordinate another team effort with a different distributed computing program.

The RC5 effort has been a bit stale the last many months, it seems. In my opinion, it would probably be best to devote all of this computing power to something that can yield a real world benefit, all the while testing and improving distributed computing as a whole and encouraging team effort and community. RC5 accomplishes the community aspect, but decrypting a known text phrase isn't going to save the world.

[tarpat1]

I have just finished removing the dnet client from my home herd and will remove them from work in the morning..What is next for Team Sysopt? I am up for just about anything........Oh BTW NUGGET SUX!!!!!

[hawkeye177]

I guess i am done. That means no more updating of new blocks. I am just going to finish mine off.

[DaHazeMan]

Looks like I can turn my computer off overnight for the first time in months! I'll be uninstalling at work in the AM too.

...sounds more like a chicken McNugget to me! Remind me to stick up for my software and members once I get my Computer Programmer/Analyst diploma and create something worthwhile. http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/smile.gif

[daveleau]

His website: <A HREF="http://members.slacker.com/~nugget/" TARGET=_blank>http://members.slacker.com/~nugget/</A>



[This message has been edited by daveleau (edited 08-02-2001).]

[Scorpio69]

Here's one I just found out about & downloaded tonight. Genome@home.
http://gah.stanford.edu/

To be honest, most of my crunching goes to seti@home. I'm always looking for something new, though.

[rshield]

I hope this is off topic.

After reading posts here, I sent a short email to Nugget, letting him know I disapproved of his comments regarding Owen. Nothing inflammatory, just a short opinion.

Within a couple of hours, I received an email from Statsaholic with my password and user name, saying I or someone else had requested it. It sure as heck wasn't me who requested it. Is someone else trying to access my account? Who? Why? And was the timing of my email to Nugget and the password request just a coincidence?

Randy

[ragtop]

I guess I'll make one last dump today, then shut it down - and I was just starting to have fun with this http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/frown.gif I'm going on vacation next week anyway, and when I get back, I'll check to see if there's a new project for us to work on.

While I understand that Nugget can't condone installing the client without permission, he needed to make a much stronger statement with regard to the ridiculous nature of the punishment they are seeking. He also needed to point out that nothing has yet been proven. Last time I checked, Georgia is still part of the US, and we still go by the concept of "Innocent until proven guilty".

This man is for all practical purposes facing a life sentence for "unauthorized use" of his work computers. (I know, they're calling it a 30 year sentence, but how long do you think a 30-something computer geek is going to last in the state pen??)

The biggest concern we all need to have is the precedent this sets. Most professional level people have access to computers at work. If this man is found guilty, then remember this (at least if you live in Georgia): The next time you use your work computer to play a game, download an MP3, surf the internet, or even just send a personal E-mail - you could be facing 30 years behind bars!!

Nugget, and the legislators and prosecutors in the state of Georgia need to get their heads out of the sand and take a close look at what they're doing. Regardless of whether this man had permission to install the software, there was certainly no criminal intent. This should be a civil matter - plain and simple. If damage was done by unauthorized use, then the school should be reimbursed - if not, then let it drop.

[daveleau]

ZDNet picked up the story.
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5095059,00.html?chkpt=zdnn_mh_mac

[Kabuki]

Well, I'm going to have to Throw in the towel too. It makes me very sad, as I liked the little competition, andalso just got a better processor. Oh well.... But I do feel it's the right thing to do, considering Dnet's abandonment of it's users. Especially without even offering to give a demonstration of what the client actually does. Let's find a suitable alternative crunching client, shall we? something more fun than Seti?

[phenious]

Hey, I was a member of the Mad Cows on this team but now in protest we have left RC-5 and instead took up A cancer project. We looked around to find one that was non profit or not linked to intell but we had no such luck so we fired up the UD project. Sad to say Nugget is still in the picture there however I feel that is OK considering the work that Im doing could help derive a Supressant or a possible cure for cancer.
I dont care who makes lots of moeny in the end cause IN the end we all win.

-: phenious :-

[izzzy12k]

I read that David just fired from his new job. I guess since ZDnet mentioned his new employer in their story he now got fired.

Talking about tough luck!

I just tossed in a lil $$$ to his fund, hope it helps a lil with his finances.

-izzy

[phenious]

Time for david to file for a greivence eh?

-: phenious :-

[viztech]

It's incredible that the fallout from McNett's remarks hasn't brought an apology from Dnet yet.
My AnandTech teamates are leaving Dnet by the truckload as well. Many like myself are holding for an August 10th dump, which Dnet servers hate http://www.sysopt.com/news/gws/cdata/smile.gif That will be the final hurrah for many of us.
The next item is what to crack next? I see where Virus has started development of stats for other projects. I'm looking forward to the next frontier.

viz the unreasonable

[omegaelf]

The airheads of higher education just love any confrontation. They will shaft this guy for the boost their ego's get. Bad call by the administration, can't back down they'll lose face....same old story.

[etcm]

I think it is in the State of Georgia's best interest to prosecute. It will set a significant precedent of prosecution for unlawful computer use, whether it is unregistered software or use of hardware for unauthorized use. Why is it that so many people want to do what they want to do because THEY think it is acceptable, irrespective of the law?