Anti-piracy takes turn for the worse in Germany

[cerberus6]

Hahaha! **** right HP will appeal. That's just about the biggest crock of s**t I've ever read. If GEMA is so concerned about music piracy, then they're just going to have to make MP3's outlawed...period. Even if they enforced tight copy protection on MP3's or even original music CD's, what's to stop a lad from line-in encoding?

[This message has been edited by cerberus6 (edited 07-02-2001).]

[skuz]

How come nobody was ever fined for double tapes sound systems ?

[SoopaStar]

I wonder if they are going to fine car companies for helping crooks out by allowing their cars to be get-away cars?
Or--how about a pothead buying weed:
1) fine the plastic-baggy company for supplying a means of container for the drug
2) fine BIC for providing the lighter
3) fine themselves for providing the money used in buying all of it...whoops! catch 22

Paul C.

[OuTpaTienT]

Funny how a little money can fix anything. If they think crimes are being committed with these CD burners then GET A SPINE AND OUTLAW THEM. I certainly don't advocate that position, but at least they'd be taking a stand for what they believe. Instead they are saying, just give us some more money and we'll let ya slide,...what a wimpy, bullsh** position to take.

[This message has been edited by OuTpaTienT (edited 07-03-2001).]

[CMonster]

I am surprized and shocked by this -you mean that PC users in Germany have no right to make legitimate backup copies of legally owned software?

Perhaps Germany should attemp to fine the people who purchased these drives instead.

I would hope that if HP has any operations based in Germany that they would have a serious talk with the government about scalling back and pulling out.

[nilknarf]

Hewlett-Packard also argues that individual licensing and user fees are better safeguards against pirating than jacked-up prices for CD burners.

No kidding!! Why should the manufacturer have to pay for what the end user does? How many of those CD burners were purchased by people just to store their own data, or make their own music? Put the fees on the actual discs the consumers use. Then, you know that whenever someone makes a copy, the license fee has already been paid. That's part of why MD's and 'For Consumer Use' CDR's used to be so much more expensive than Professional and Data CDR's.

Tim

[Futzelman]

Everybody just believes that statement blindly? Who knows how many other things are involved in this and what the true nature of the matter is.
I dont believe it because HP is not the only seller of CR-RW in Germany and I live here and have not heard about it

[MTAtech]

yah, and why doesn't the court fine the post office for every stamp that they sold - because mail-fraud occurs when people use postage stamps?

HP can retaliate by not selling any burners in Germany. The public will then force a repeal of the law.

[alondra]

futzelman, just curious, you say you live there, your profile lists Ma.USA ???

[camaro]

What a bunch of retards! hehe Let's fine the crow bar making industry for every door broken into. Every gun maker for every person shot, including when police shoots someone. on and on and on If this passes then I wouldn't be surprised if Hitler's granchild came to power.

[Zealous]

why not go after the real threat here, the makers of cdr and cdrw discs because without those the burners would be nothing more then expensive cd roms

[wangel]

Hmmmm.... Always two sides to a coin.

Sounds like they want to blame the bartender for serving a drink to someone who then goes out and kills someone with their car? Or perhaps it's like blaming the tobacco company for people who want to smoke. Are CD-ROM burners used for making legitimate copies of owned software? Isn't this the real question? I was in Germany for 2 months and also visited many other countries. Piracy is rampant and the chief means of pirating software is with the CD-ROM burner.

How many times has your original CD gone bad and you sat there saying: Heck, I wish I had purchased a CD-ROM burner so that I would now have a legal backup.

I agree with this ruling as a means to control piracy. The European countries are not the same as here. You see people selling copies of Windows, Office, and basically anything else you want on the corner of the street for $20 from freshly made burners. One major software company I spoke with told me that his company quit distributing to Germany because they only sold 4 licensed versions of their software, but have monitored over 1000 copies there.

[kedikat]

If a court rules that a device sold to an individual is to incur a fine for a crime. Then hasn't that court tried and convicted all users of the device as criminals?

[kedikat]

If a court rules that a device sold to an individual is to incur a fine for a crime. Then hasn't that court tried and convicted all users of the device as criminals?

[kedikat]

If a court rules that a device sold to an individual is to incur a fine for a crime. Then hasn't that court tried and convicted all users of the device as criminals?

[kedikat]

If a court rules that a device sold to an individual is to incur a fine for a crime. Then hasn't that court tried and convicted all users of the device as criminals?

[kedikat]

If a court rules that a device sold to an individual is to incur a fine for a crime. Then hasn't that court tried and convicted all users of the device as criminals?

[kedikat]

If a court rules that a device sold to an individual is to incur a fine for a crime. Then hasn't that court tried and convicted all users of the device as criminals?

[kedikat]

If a court rules that a device sold to an individual is to incur a fine for a crime. Then hasn't that court tried and convicted all users of the device as criminals?

[jgirl]

The original statement is in some ways incorrect. The actual state of things here in Germany is that they are requiring a built in royalty fee for all devices able to copy or store digital media. The authorities in Germany are quite aware that they can't stop illegal copying of protected and copyrighted works, nevertheless they hope to create a funds for the organizations that represent musicians and authors as well as software companies and the likes. Germany is well known for trying to make rules for every situation and boasts a system that sometimes stagnates on bureacracy. It was determined that all scanners, cdr-drives, printers and hdd would require an extra fee at purchase (included in the purchase price). All complete PCs have an added price of about DM 70 ($35). The actual price for single components varies. The move against HP is the demand for back fees which HP has refused to pay. Hopefully they will win this battle and our prices will normalize! Hope this sheds some new light on this topic.

jgirl

[Bluefang]

Seems to be BS. Don't see how new laws can affect what has been the normal/standard for years. I can see change and progress, but I cannot see how HP can be held liable for anything that took place prior to these laws being implemented.

If I was HP, I would say screw Germany and pull out. If Germany ammends the laws so that only anything from this point forward that is manufactured and sold, then that's another story.

Next point, where is the freedom? Where is freedom to produce and sell a product? I can see limiting a product if it is dangerous or harmful in some PHYSICAL way.
And affecting the wallet of some corporation is not harmful.

At this point, duping Software is a user's responsibility. Making sure that it is licenced is also. Myself, I dupe maybe 1/3 of my software for a backup purpose. Last time I didn't, I had bought a copy or Win98 and accidently dropped it. when that happened I scarred the back and was unusable.
I tried to get a replacement copy, but ended up having to buy a new copy. At that time, W98 was going for $89. was cheaper to make a $2 backup.

[gr8vfr]

Seems to me that CDRWs don't kill people.

People kill people.

Oh wait its: guns don't kill people people kill people.

FREE the CDRWs...

[pschg]

Why is it that companies always presume that burners are being used for piracy?
Burning data ensures that it is relatively permanent, and quicker vs. fdd's.
All software has a NO return policy, even if it is not what you thought it might be. ie: Photoshop 5.....do you really want to pay hundreds of dollars for it, just to find out that is way complicated for the average user?
Most ppl buy music cd's, then compose their own compilations from the various artists that they choose to listen to.