PIII vs Celeron

[JBilbao]

Hi. Quick question...
Which is faster a Celeron 1.1GHz or a P3-800EB?
Where can I get results?

Thanks.

[LostBok]

Interesting question.... I forget, is the 800EB a 133Mhz FSB or 100Mhz?

Either way I should imagine the Celeron can outpace the P3 in sheer number crunching, however the P3 does have more cache and does have SSE on its side - I think you'd find the P3 would pull level or slightly ahead with some applications, but the fact that the Celeron is a third quicker in clock-speed would probably mean it would be the faster. Are these two identical spec machines you're comapring or different boxes or are you looking to upgrade your CPU?

[Banti]

P3 letters

E= .18 micron
B=133 FSB
EB= Both

Banti

[NDD]

Celeron 1.1GHz uses Coppermine128 core, hence, it supports SSE.
1.1GHz/100MHz FSB Celeron would be faster then 800MHz/133MHz FSB PentiumIII EB.

Best Regards ...

[LostBok]

ND, so let me get this straight.... the only differences between Celeron128's and PIII's are more cache (128k for coppermine, 384k for Tualatin) and a slightly faster BUS speed?

[LostBok]

I thought it was only the Celeron II's that used SSE, but the pre-cache Celeron's and Celeron A's (original 128k cache) did not...
not sure about the earlier FC-PGA Celeron's though...

You're probably right though http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif
I've not been looking that closely at CPU's for a while now...

If that be the case, I should be able to put two Celeron 800's or 1Ghz's on riser-cards and then into my old dual-BX motherboard and they should work fine - my mobo did definitely take the CeleronA's...


[This message has been edited by LostBok (edited 09-06-2001).]

[otheos]

Sorry, but the only celerons that will work on SMP are the older (up to 533Mhz). Celeron II have their SMP disabled so I guess you're back to P3.

[LostBok]

Thanks Otheos.... my credit-card's been burning a hole in my pocket all morning and I've keyed in that Scan phone number a few times today already (I find web-ordering too easy and highly addictive).... I was SOOOOO close to ordering a pair of Celery 800's (£47+VAT) and the riser cards.... I was sure they'd work.... are you sure the newer Celeron's are non-MP?? Why did they disable that?

[otheos]

I am positive I'm affraid.

Why they disabled it? So that you buy a P3 of course!

[LostBok]

Ok, thanks... saved me a lot of frustration and heart-ache.... I guess http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif

Please, don't take offence, but I'm putting a topic out asking what the story is... just hoping somebody has some brain-waves... or cunning plans for these, otherwise I reckon its off to a dual Athlon once th emobo's come down in price... the CPU's are SO much cheaper and also faster than their equivalent PIII's... somehow I'm expecting Intel to be quite greedy when those Tualatin core PIII's hit the mass-market... not theat I'm a pessimist or anything http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Is it s pin-disable or have they actually disabled something on the chip? I'd be running these in a BX Slot1 mobo initially, so could mess around with the riser cards quite a bit http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by LostBok (edited 09-06-2001).]

[otheos]

No offence taken, I know exactly the feeling! (ok sure, but has anyoned tried it??)

That's the fun of it! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[LostBok]

Hellmund backed you up and then dug out some article from RobRich about it all... looks liek you're right... I'm not gonan try it now, but could well have a go when I've got money to burn and a LOT of time to dig around for the more detailed CPU specs...

Or I could just buy the riser cards and then try to persuade two friends to upgrade to the same speed Celeron2's at the same time, just so that I can test them first... bit of a long shot, but the only way its gonan happen at the moment!

[Gaston]

Celeron 800 has 10ns clock period
PIII at 133FSB has 7.5ns for executing

[k00lhand]

Try this site for more info; http://www.tomshardware.com/

Go to Tom's Guide click on CPU and get everything you need to know!

G'Day Luke.

[ticktack]

I think previosuly I read from a review testing these 2 CPU; Celeron600 & PIII600E, both were similar close in results obtain, thus if now with the better FSB at 100Mhz, I feels that that this Celeron 1.2 surely surpassed even the PIII-1GHz!

[Wilan Wong]

The Celeron 1100 should be faster, since it has a higher clock speed advantage, and the FSB isn't that "limited" even though it is quite limited. Even though the P3 800EB has a 133MHz bus.. the Celeron should be able to beat it by pure clock speed..

[Lord Sech]

1100 celey vs. an 800eb pIII

I would have to say that the celly would win not only because of the core speed, but because the celly can be overclocked a great many times more than the pIII (in most cases).

I have a celly 700 o/c @ 1056 ghz with stock cooling and only 1.85 vcore voltage. My friend has a pIII and because it comes with 133 bus, MOST motherboards will stop around 150-155 fsb. He had trouble getting his chip to run a about 150 bus which gave him 930 mhz.

I on the other hand have "only" 110 bus (remember a celly is rated a 66) but am overclocked almost 400 mhz.

If you plan on doing weaking of any kind, i would say the celeron would be a wiser and maybe overall better buy.

-Sech

[LostBok]

Modern Celly's are 100Mhz FSB... but that still leaves an easy OC up to 133Mhz FSB... jsu thte mulitplier locking that's gonna restrict you: try gettng a CElly 1Ghz and OC'ing to 1333Mhz....

[Lord Sech]

Bok,

In my eyes that is just another reason to go with a newer celeron that will still be a good amount cheaper, and perform better after an o/c then a pIII. It was also have about 500mhz clock speed on it to.

-Sech

[Harshu]

Celeron will run faster

[ticktack]

I'm awaiting the better 1.2Ghz celery which has 256kb cache which simply implies that its identical to an PIII-1 GHz using 100MHz FSB, & further the pricing for an PIII & Celery 1.2 is totally a big gap..

[NDD]

On "Intel® Processor Pricing (http://www.intel.com/intel/finance/pricelist/)", effective October 28, 2001, there're two versions of 1.2GHz Tualatin processors, one is listed as PIII and another as Celeron. The only difference seems to be the FSB (and price :) ).

Best Regards ...

[LostBok]

The only difference seems to be the FSB (and price ).

And also the Tualatin's have 512k L2 cache, data prefetch and also what is in my eyes the most important thing.... Celeron's are SMP disabled....

Who cares, I've got my two 1800+ MP's and Tyan Tiger on order now... but still have loads of other dual PC's that could do with two of those Celerons!

laters,
LostBok

[NDD]

1. "And also the Tualatin's have 512k L2 cache" - you obviously didn't look at the price list, otherwise you'd see that both processors have 256kb of L2 cache.
2. Nobody knows if data prefetch is disabled in .13um Celeron.
3. I think Intel wouldn't release desktop version of Tualatin with SMP capabilities, while there's official PentiumIII-S (server Tualatin, with 512kb of L2 cache). So both of these processors can possibly be SMP-disabled.

P.S. Having dual 1800+ MPs ain't bad thing at all :)

Best Regards ...

[Kurylo]

I had a Celeron 633Mhz (MMX, SSE) running at 719Mhz. The framerate in the "Final Reality 1.01 (I mean 25-polygon count)" and "3DMark 2000 (high-polygon count)" was very low. After upgrading only CPU , to PIII 800Mhz EB (CuMine, MMX, SSE) running at 1.0Ghz these tests became VERY fast: up to 5 times (mayme even more !!!). Is it because my freq, raised 1.5 times? Of course, no. It is becaise I bought a PENTIUM, not celeron.

[bigparsnip]

Well, Ihave just purchased myself two 500MHz celly's, an abit BP6 mobo, and am fully indending on running both at once (the older socket 370 celly's could have thier SMP capabilities enabled quite easily, the BP6 does this for me). It shoud gibe me some fair going once I have OC the chips, and tweaked the BX chipset, all in not a bad deal considering I only paid £110 for the mobo, two chips, heatsinks and 128mb of PC100 SDRAM. All I need now are a few extras like a spare case, doh!

[NDD]

Kurylo - are you sure the only thing has changed was a processor ?! You didn't try any new drivers/tweaks ? It doesn't really sound like you could achieve up to 5 times better framerates by just going from Celeron-719MHz to PIII-1GHz, there got to be something else.
What videocard you have ? On slower processors, videocard might be severely bottlenecked, hence much better results with faster processor. Yet, 5 times better sounds to good to be true ...

Best Regards ...

[Kurylo]

Dear ND! I'm sure I've changed only my CPU. I have a v3800 TNT2 32Mb card. In Final Reality there are not such things as shaders and other stuff, so my tests were running at 100% visual quality (for Final Reality, of course).
I don't know why I've got such great (5 times !!!) 3D-performance increase, but I saw it by my eyes! I was greatly impressed too. And now, I'm happy having more expensive, but so effective CPU!

[NDD]

Sorry to say that, but it must be some kind of error in Final Reality. I know this benchmark quite well, and althought I can't right now perform similar tests here, it simply doesn't sound logical. You can't get such an improvement from switching these two processors. Not even a drivers can do this, since FR uses old DirectX 5.
Test it with 3DMark2000/2001 and you'll see I'm right, even though 3DMark doesn't have similar test.

Yet, if you happy - I'm happy too :)

Best Regards ...

[Kurylo]

I do not have now this Celeron, but I might say to you: 3DMarks do not give such increase in 3D-speed. But it's extasy to realize such productiviry. I will never change my Pentium to any Celeron. (the only chance for Celeron for me to buy is a Celeron 1Ghz / 32Kb L1 / 256Kb L2 / 200Mhz FSB minimum. But this is for Pentium 5. ;)

[ticktack]

OK, so its basically still not advisable to replaced an PIII-750@900MHz for an Celeron Tualatin 1200MHz which can easily hit 1500+MHz?

[NDD]

You will feel the difference between 900MHz and 1.5GHz, even if it means going from PIII to Celeron.
Kurylo probably won't agree with me ;)

Best Regards ...

[Kurylo]

No, here I agree with you.
The new Celeron Tualatin is near PIII in speed. It has almost all main parameters equal to PIII: Tualatin core; 256Kb L2; 100Mhz bus (PIII has 133); and SSE-MMX. It seems to me that the new Celeron is the same as PIII, but at 100Mhz FSB.
So, here we have a real money-saving at the cost of slight speed decrease due to FSB downgraded clock (still, able to overclock, but not so greatly as older Celly's, because Tualatins almost have reached their performance limits caused by their architecture).
I think, Celly 1,2GHz can run at 1,5Ghz while FSB isn't too overklocked (to 125Mhz). And here I'd like to have such CPU.
But if I'll buy it, I'd find a 1.2GHz Cally, which will run at 133Mhz FSB (1.6Ghz).

Watch this: http://www.xbitlabs.com/cpu/celeron-1200/

[ticktack]

I'm aiming for their Celeron 1.2 OEM version which lots of overclocking acheivements?

[Neeo]

My Celeron 1200 does 1530 @ 1.5 V. My RAM won't go higher, but I'm sure my CPU will.

And it's quite fast: 6611 points in 3dmark2k1, that is with a GF3 Ti200 @ 220/520