another drug bad

[alondra]

just talked to my son back in boston,, there is a prescription drug for cancer called oxycontin <sp> they are sticking up drug stores at gun point to get this stuff, they grind it up and use it, has an effect like heroin. my God, what next in societies slide down hill. any body back there heard of this ??

[Warthog]

hmmmm the name sounds familiar.

Yeah I know, alondra, I'm right in the thick of it (high school). Actually, besides high school, practically everyone I work with uses drugs on occasion at least. If they don't do that, they abuse alcohol and/or smoke. Last one is a given - everyone smokes there.

Makes me sick http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif

Warthog

[blind to truth]

The addiction causes the junkie to commit a crime in order to get a fix. I currently use herion, marijuna, and alcohol. I don't think I would go as far as robbing people to get some though.

-btt

[LemonHead]

what next in societies slide down hill
Spring Rolls, i just downed 8 mini spring rolls. I feel awful!

I watched a program which was on about the legalisation of, not cannabis, but HEROIN. Apparently the stuff sold on the street is cut with a LOT of junk so if clean stuff is prescribed then less ppl will die.

I hate smoking too. My parents smoke and my mum wants to quit. My dad says that it's his money and he'll spend it however he likes, which would b fine if he smoked away from me, but he doesn't and it makes me sick.

[This message has been edited by LemonHead (edited 07-05-2001).]

[Goldwingnut]

It's a major problem in Appalachia.

OxyContin is a very effective painkiller. Often prescribed in Appalachia, where the mines give people injuries which cause major pain.
http://headaches.about.com/library/weekly/aa021301a.htm?PM=59_0103_T
http://www.csdp.org/news/news/oxycontin.htm
http://enquirer.com/editions/2001/02/10/loc_oxycontin_called.html
http://www.tcpalm.com/breaking/national/p0745.shtml

[zskillz]

the oxycontin thing is nothing new. this drug and all of the crime involved with it have been around for several years. In fact I read an article about it in time magazine almost a year ago.

definately powerful stuff.
-Z

[OuTpaTienT]

The addiction causes the junkie to commit a crime in order to get a fix.
That's a load of **** if I ever heard it. The addiction doesn't cause one to do anything, except maybe suffer with withdrawl symptoms. What causes the junkie to commit crimes is his lack of moral conviction, lack of will power, lack of social responsibility, impaired judgement, total disregard for other people, selfishness, and so on.

I have no sympathy for junkies. I have nothing against drug users. If you want to use, I say that's your right to influence your body however you want. But at least be smart enough to have a way to support your habbit/additction/whatever. If you do expensive drugs then make sure you have a well paying job. If you do so many drugs that you can't keep a well paying job,...well then it's time to wake up buddy.

[This message has been edited by OuTpaTienT (edited 07-05-2001).]

[surrealchereal]

I think your right Outy, but I see it like this;

lack of moral conviction,
impaired judgement
lack of social responsibility,
lack of will power,
selfishness
total disregard for other people.
But the problem is, by the time the person notices a problem and the impaired judgment brought on by the drug is recognized for what it is, just that impaired judgement. The other symptoms are already full blown by. Unknown by the user that the process is even taking place. Addiction will sneak up on someone, and before they know it, it's eaten their heart away and left a small piece of stone in it's stead. The person that escapes from the problem is the person that is able to pull strength from nowhere but pain, pain that the drugs stop. It's a tough catch 22. Couple that with a society like ours today that has no regard for the sacredness of life. The disposable era, and you have a lab perfect environment and the decay will flourish.

[narayan]

Right-on. It is individual choice.

[alondra]

BtoT
from past experience, I take pause at accepting any thing you post. hoping this is not true but an attempt at sick humor. a true addict will do any thing to get a fix, and there are those who will do anything to get the product to sell them. I also find your addy and web page ultra-childish. unfortunatly in our society, shock value is minimal. hope some day you grow up.

[surrealchereal]

You sound like you know how a junkie feels and thinks, are you talking out of first hand experience, or is this your opinion ?.
I just don't like it when people turn their opinions into alleged facts.
And I wonder, now why would he say that? What would cause such a strong reaction?
So I think about it, and I have 2 reasons that come to mind forgive me if I insult you, none intended.
1. You were somehow either accused of drug use, or involved in it and someone who knew nothing about addictions, behavior, etc., tried to tell you what to do or put pressure on you, and your bitter about it, or still have unpleasant memories of the incident.
or
2. You have forgotten how many doctors perform, heart surgery, brain surgery, and psychoanalysis coupled with drug therapy to save someone's life and give them back some control over a crippling psychological disorder caused either by chemistry or environment or both.

I think that life experience can be a great teacher. But I think that one can experience something vicariously or through books and gain a deep understanding.
I would hope you might reconsider you opinion. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[surrealchereal]

a true addict will do any thing to get a fix, and there are those who will do anything to get the product to sell them
alondra, we are leaving out the functioning addict from your reasoning. There are many people in the process of becoming human garbage because of their addictions. They know they are addicted, need help. But can't quit or if they do, go right back. They are still able to work, have scaled down their standard of living, or burned up their IRA's, savings and hocked the family heirlooms. They are watching their lives disintegrate and unable to stop the madness.
They still have a small spot for humanity, and will allow themselves to suffer when short enough money to score, but the minute they get the money they go back to the death. My point is that I think that is more of a stereotypical view than what's really out there. I have not intended to offend you. Please forgive me if I have.

[alondra]

no offence taken. I feel the value of these forums is the wide exchange of opinions from many folks with equally varied life experiences.
alondra

[Warthog]

Surreal, I totally agree with your 2nd to last post. I was wondering exactly the same thing.

Warthog

[blind to truth]

That's a load of **** if I ever heard it. The addiction doesn't cause one to do anything, except maybe suffer with withdrawl symptoms. What causes the junkie to commit crimes is his lack of moral conviction, lack of will power, lack of social responsibility, impaired judgement, total disregard for other people, selfishness, and so on.
I have no sympathy for junkies. I have nothing against drug users. If you want to use, I say that's your right to influence your body however you want. But at least be smart enough to have a way to support your habbit/additction/whatever. If you do expensive drugs then make sure you have a well paying job. If you do so many drugs that you can't keep a well paying job,...well then it's time to wake up buddy

Often an addict will do quite drastics things to avoid the crash. Being on drugs, now being his new reality, is the only thing that matters to him/her. Have you ever done an addicting drug?

BtoT
from past experience, I take pause at accepting any thing you post. hoping this is not true but an attempt at sick humor. a true addict will do any thing to get a fix, and there are those who will do anything to get the product to sell them. I also find your addy and web page ultra-childish. unfortunatly in our society, shock value is minimal. hope some day you grow up.

1.) You've always had a problem with for me some reason witch I forgot, but you didn't seem to.

2.) Yes I do drugs, including herion, which I am trying to get off of.

3.) I used that e-mail address because I own the domain, and my other e-mail account (@aol) was terminated.

[big_block_buick]

here's hoping you do. i'm missing a good bud and probably lose another cause they grew out of weed. when a good hydro gag can't do it no more, it's time to shut it all down.

[Ritalin Kid]

I know plenty of people around here that use OxyContin even one girl who has to use it to go to sleep she's so addicted. It is a terrible thing to see. I definately agree that the drug abuse is not a good thing, I have yet to see anything good or resourcful come out of it yet I believe the "War on Drugs" is a joke. I have nothing against people who do it but I refuse to associate myself with them simply because once they are addicted they tend to have a completely number one objective, where or how are they going to get their next high. My cousin got bad off awhile back just "experimenting" and stole my bill $$ off me when I decided to give him refuge from the streets for a night and another close friend who just smoked weed stole $300 off me just so they could get high. But to me it's not a law enforcement issue addiction is a disease unless they are commiting crimes against others to obtain their next high.

[OuTpaTienT]

BTT, do you have a working email address somewhere? Trying to send you an email, keeps getting bounced.

[crazyray]

Confession time...it's "Dr crazyray"...

We have seen a growing problem for years with prescription drug abuse. Narcotics have been the most "popular". Drug seeking activity involves seeing a number of doctors of various kinds and filling the prescriptions at a variety of pharmacies. Stealing prescription pads is common, as are attempts to phone in Rx's pretending to be a doctor.

Drugs are classified by the DEA in schedules 1 through 5, according to their (the DEA's) judged abuse potential and usefulness in medicine. Oxycontin and so on require a written Rx and are listed as schedule 2. Some milder narcotics like codeine can be called in and are schedule 3's. Note that marijuana is a schedule 1, in the same class with heroin, having "great potential for abuse and harm and NO medical usefulness."

Duh!?

I feel people should be held responsible for what they do. An addict that kills while robbing a pharmacy is a murderer. Punish him for his crime, NOT his addiction.

We need to pursue more treatment of addicts for the sake of the addict and his family, his potential victims, and to help stop the spread of HIV.

BTW, law enforcement has free access to your prescription records without warrant. Because more and more records are computerized and linked, if you think you'll get away with tricking the doctors and pharmacies forever, you are wrong.

I believe the "war on drugs" has not only been a dismal failure, it is rife with corruption and skewed priorities. Marijuana is not for kids, but it should be legalized (and available for medical use). I should mention that I know a number of people in law enforcement dealing with this problem and I am awed by their willingness to put themselves in danger to serve/ protect us. But even many of them are disillusioned with things. As one undercover cop told me, "I don't give a **** if an adult wants to smoke grass in his own home. If he drives under the influence, that's different. If he gives it to underage kids, that's different. But the idea that the law can take his home because we find marijuana for his own use there is frankly scary."

Let's love and educate our kids. Let's treat those that are addicted. Let's make sure our laws make sense and are fair.



[This message has been edited by crazyray (edited 07-05-2001).]

[club_med]

OuT & surrealchereal:

You sound like you know how a junkie feels and thinks, are you talking out of first hand experience, or is this your opinion ?.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not disagreeing with you, I just dont like it when people turn their opinions into alleged facts.

If you have ever been a junkie and if you have gone through the tragedy that some of those people call a life then I take back what i said.

Because in that case you would obviously know what you are talking about.

I don't know anything about how junkies and drug addicts feel, I don't know what they go through, nor do I know how much they suffer, so I tend to just read along in curiousty and interest in such threads.

cm.

[blind to truth]

Yes.

mrboja@hotmail.com

[club_med]

I guess it was this that set me off:

That's a load of **** if I ever heard it

cm.

[club_med]

Btw, no offence to OuT.

cm.

[club_med]

If you're addicted to something, and you're intelligent enough to know you're addicted

Im sorry but the above sounds like utter **** to me.

I don’t agree OuT, although I know little about this subject it doesn’t mean I don’t know anything about, and it also doesn’t mean that I have no opinion.

A very good friend of mine passed away due to drugs about 5 years ago.

Being intelligent has nothing to do with being able to make decisions.

Also, never under estimate the power of denial.

A person who is suffering drug addiction cannot think right, they are no longer able to make clever, thoughtful decisions.

You also seem to forget that people who take drugs usually do so because of a certain weakness, or because problems in their lives.

You would be wasting your time to expect them to make wise decisions.

This is why your starting comments set me off.

cm.


[This message has been edited by club_med (edited 07-06-2001).]

[lynchmob]

I read an article recently about the oxycontin abuse running rampant in W.VA.They call it "Hillbilly Heroin".
This reminded me that I actually had this drug prescribed to me for pain relief after having surgery to repair some minor nerve damage on my arm.I took one pill as prescribed and an hour later I was experiencing the most unpleasant sensation I could remember in quite awhile.So I went to bed to hopefully sleep and rid myself of this effect.The following morning,I awoke to the same feeling I had when I went to sleep the night before.I decided to grin and bear the pain rather than take another one of those pills.
These pills are a time released version of Percodan or Percocet(I'm not sure which)meant to be taken 12 hours apart.I can only imagine the effect produced by crushing and snorting one of these pills and getting the full dosage at once.Dont get me wrong,I'm 44 year old and have experienced about every drug you could lay hands on-thank goodness I gave it up 20 years ago.
lynch

[crazyray]

In the interest of completeness, a couple of additional comments:

Not all addicts set out looking for a thrill. Many who are addicted to prescription pain killers started legit. They may have suffered an injury or illness that made pain medication appropriate. At this point things get weird and/or sticky. Doctors are reluctant to give pain meds because of fear of addiction as well as fear of punishment by their state board AND fear of litigation initiated by the patient they are trying to help. If they refuse meds, they are insensitive bastards. If they give them, they are too "liberal" or pill-pushers who do not care if their patient becomes addicted. Get the idea?

Even if the doc refuses more Rx's, there is little chance the patient will say "I'm addicted" or "I need help." The medication by this time is likely to be less effective (the body has developed tolerance to it)as well. Many patients then begin the rounds of seeing other doctors. Or they get meds from relatives and friends. Pretty soon things have escalated to the point where the patient is an addict, knows it, still has pain, and does not know which way to turn. If things continue, and the dose keeps going up (because of tolerance), the patient may very well develop serious health problems from the drugs. NO, NOT from the narcotic, but from the acetaminophen ("tylenol") which is mixed with almost all oral narcotics! Liver damage, kidney damage, etc. Such a patient may be greatly helped by a methadone program until complete detox can be achieved. This concept has fallen into disfavor amongst the public it seems; in a time when right wing talk show hosts scream for self responsibility the idea of giving drugs to addicts is, er, immoral.

I just want you to know a little about the situation. Knowledge is the beginning of wisdom.

[thekingofpain]

Ray nails it as far as im concerned, ive lived it first hand and beyond, the Dr's gave me an unlimited supply of heavy narcotics on a regular basis, the semi/self administered morphine sulphate started me off (15+ years ago) Dilauded tablets to go followed, and when my tolerance escalated they would detox me to a different drug, in between it was more surgery, more drugs and more incredible pain, add bio feedback, implanted nerve stimulators to block the pain, more surgery, pain clinics, and many more pills, toss in a failed marriage stimulted by it all, and a few 1000 more pills + total the major surgerys to 10 and finally add more pain for good measure---

then---as the years go on, have the Dr's cut you off due to liability, add acetaminophen to my now non existant effect pain pills but still give me 100's of em at a time---

It aint working for me---I head to Thailand for a couple years having traveled extensively in my "youth", live alot differently--- smoke opium, raw china white and opium soaked thaisticks for quite awhile, no pain to say the least, came back to the US and eventually get busted for importing China white from Thailand, well, after the prison sentence is over---still in pain, quite a few years later, alittle wiser, alot experienced, I wouldnt touch an aspirin, still in contact with the same Dr's, they agree with me in using small amounts of high quality marijuana, its just safer for me to accomplish pain management this way...

All along, I wasnt trying to get high, I didnt wake up one day and say---"hey I wanna be an addict"---I have no history of addiction in my family tree, I was and still am in extreme constant pain, it has taken me quite awhile to learn how to manage this which I feel ive successfully done after many ups and downs...my longtime Dr's have witnessed all this and ive taught them a thing or 2 in the process...

Ask for a script of Oxycontin from your Dr---most likely he will turn you down, or give you 6 tablets with no refills...

[This message has been edited by thekingofpain (edited 07-07-2001).]

[Warthog]

Now I finally understand why you chose the name you did. You've been through a lot. I think TKOP knows what he's talking about more than any of us.
http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif
Warthog

[OuTpaTienT]

CM, considering you yourself proclaim: I don't know anything about how junkies and drug addicts feel, I don't know what they go through, nor do I know how much they suffer...I'm curious how you could be "set off" regarding a subject you admittedly know little about.

This is not the place to go into detail, but unfortunately I do know a little about this subject. And just like you, I was "set off" by a particular statement... ...addiction causes the junkie to commit a crime... Sorry, but that's got cop-out written all over it. If you're addicted to something, and you're intelligent enough to know you're addicted, then you are responisible for you actions. "The addiction" is not responsible for any crimes you commit...YOU are.

[jad1097]

I pretty much agree with you Out. But as you may well know when a junkie has nothing left they will find a way to get high. Call it what you will but when you are strung out you do not think rationally, at least I did not. However, there are some who can control their urges.

[crazyray]

And all this time I thought you were just a big "Police" fan... =)

The King of Pain. Your story has moved me even though it is not the only such story I have heard.

I can't help but wonder when I hear a story like this why this country can't come to grips with that freely growing weed found in every part of the world. To term you a criminal is, ah, criminal.

May you find a measure of relief and peace.

[jad1097]

My uncle who has never done drugs has to smoke good herb because of Cancer and all the extreme kemo he has been through. It is sad that he can not get it a legal way. Yet they will give out scripts for some extremely addictive narcotics like Dilaudid (http://www.straightfacts.com/wwwpages/dilaudid.htm) .

Global Illicit Drug Trends (http://www.undcp.org/research.html)






[This message has been edited by jad1097 (edited 07-07-2001).]

[crazyray]

In my experience, you should feel fortunate that ANY doctor is willing to provide needed pain medication.

[pickel]

Drugs are the effect not the cause. There's no way that the individual cause of each drug user will ever be given the light of day much less a "cure" his or her particular problem, unless that person wants to help themselves.
If they can't control their own destiny, lock them up and give them Gideon's Bible and let them work it out themselves. Society is not a baby sitter, esspecially with our hard earned dollars that we WORK so hard for every day. "Let them eat cake"

[OuTpaTienT]

If they can't control their own destiny, lock them up...
Kinda harsh huh?

Judge not lest ye be judged.

Junkies that go overboard and end up committing crimes don't get much sympathy from me, but being a junkie in and of itself IMO is not a crime. Locking people up just for being junkies is simply inhumane.

[This message has been edited by OuTpaTienT (edited 07-09-2001).]

[pickel]

Guess you missed the first part of my post, Outpatient. If this person wants to help themself get over their problem and works hard, he will succeed. However , if one doesn't give a darn about themselves or the rest of society , steals, causes greif for others, esspecially innocent by standers, put him away so that law abiding folks can go on with their lives without having to worry about the possible havoc these people can cause. I've seen first hand, many times, the result of the indiscriminant use of drugs and alcohol growing up in NYC. It's less obvious here in Mississippi but , nevertheless goes on every day. Seperating the bad apples also gives the next generation less of an example to follow.

[surrealchereal]

*person *suffering drug addiction cannot think right, they are no longer .Being able to make the decisions and carry them out are two different scenes.

*do so because of a certain weakness, or because problems in their lives.
Well gee, could those problems be caused by not being able to make clever, thoughtful decisions?

You would be wasting your time to expect them to make wise decisions.
No, maybe trusting them, but a junky knows right from wrong, at least if he knew it before the drugs he still knows it during the drugs. Otherwise NOBODY would ever get clean.

[This message has been edited by surrealchereal (edited 07-11-2001).]

[club_med]

I disagree surreal.

I stick to what I said.

Someone who is suffering drug addiction is not leading a 'normal' life. Their life is centered around the drug and obtaining it.

Not to forget the biological and psychological effects this has on the person. This furthermore robs them of the ability to think right and make the right descisions.

No, maybe trusting them, but a junky knows right from wrong, at least if he knew it before the drugs he still knows it during the drugs. Otherwise NOBODY would ever get clean.

People do not try to get clean because using drugs is wrong.

They try to get clean because using the drug and being on it is and feels *****.

Using these drugs is only 'wrong' because someone else said so (the government).

but a junky knows right from wrong, at least if he knew it before the drugs he still knows it during the drugs

Exactly, thats why i said:
do so because of a certain weakness, or because problems in their lives.

cm.

[kenyg]

I don't know much, but I know that addiction, be drug or alcohal destroys lives.

Be it the life of the addict, or their family and friends. It's just a horrible thing. - It's happened within my family several times - and I hate it.


Ken -

[surrealchereal]

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif CMed, (you're defiant opinions on so many things reminds me so much of my son. (and my earlier much edgier self) http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif)

I said;
but a junky knows right from wrong, at least if he knew it before the drugs he still knows it during the drugs. Otherwise NOBODY would ever get clean.

I see I did not express myself well now. What I meant was, drugs cannot be used as an excuse for not knowing the difference between right and wrong. As in committing a crime, or a moral offense.

You say;
People do not try to get clean because using drugs is wrong.
To which I reply;
Oh Really? Nicotine is a drug. I have heard many people say they don't want their children to smoke.
They are smokers and say it is wrong for them to set the bad example.
They quit because they feel it is wrong for them to smoke and expect their children to not smoke.
Wrong is not just a word used for legalities, it is also used for moralities isn't it?
you say;
They try to get clean because using the drug and being on it is and feels *****.

and here I go again
Seems to me it's wrong to go through life feeling that way..

Using these drugs is only 'wrong' because someone else said so (the government)

As you might guess, I think you're wrong.

[surrealchereal]

Ya know cmed, I wonder what it is in some of us that enables or causes one to just completely and utterly self destruct, and in others that causes them to just be stronger?

[OuTpaTienT]

I wonder that too.

[jad1097]

In my experiance with drugs: while I was doing the hard ones I completely and utterly self destructed and after I quit those experiances made me stronger.