Big Brother is already here :(

[socalgal]

I just heard in passing on the 11 o'clock news that it's been approved (by whom, the people?) that the city of Palm Springs, CA, will be installing 14 (or, 14 more, not sure) surveillance cameras in the city covering approximately 10 city blocks.

It's encroaching, folks. A traffic light camera here... and freeway camera there...

Doesn't this scare people? Or are they lulled into some sort of false sense of security, thinking that the real reason these are being installed is to solely help the police?

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 06-13-2001).]

[muno]

Has there been any studies on the affect of surveillance cameras on crime rate?
I would tend to think that cameras here and there wouldn't interfere the life of ordinary citizen.. But there's a short way from this to adding cameras somewhere bit more intimate place.
-M

[krusty the klown]

We've had them for some time in our cities...

Hmmm... I really can't make my mind up about the things...<IMG SRC="http://www.duhspot.com/users/smiley/s/otn/confused/xolconfused.gif" border=0>

[RobRich]

North Carolina will be installing a whole camera grid along I-40 from Asheville, NC towards Knoxville, TN over the upcoming weeks. This is a dangerous stretch of curvy high-speed highway, so the cameras will likely prove quite helpful. However, to what degree do we let these potential invasions of privacy go?

Robert Richmond

[charmler]

An improperly placed rifle shot from more than one accidental tourist has been known to cause municipalities to rethink the placement of expensive electronic gear. Or not. I think everybody in America should be worried when people from other, more restricted countries say "we have that here" and let the locals in charge know of your concerns. I do NOT condone vandalism or the destruction of public property. But some people do. How many cameras will it take to make a dangerous stretch of road safe?

[club_med]

I don't think the instalation of 14 cameras can be viewed as the birth of Big Brother.

Big Brother has been around from the very beginning.

<u>There are two sides to a story:</u>
1. To monitor the people for securities sake. To be able to prevent a little crime (even 1% drop in crime rate is good). To be able to identify criminals if they are caught on cam.

2. To monitor the people for the security of the government. To pick out those unwanted citizens. The so called enemies of the state. To keep an eye on everyone.

Both are nothing new, so why are you surprised/sad Socalgal ?.

The government can and has been keeping an eye on you even without cameras. They have done so in the past and will continue to do so well into the future.

Thats how i see it,
cm.

[BBA]

I have to say...although a little alarming, if the camera's are mounted in public areas, it must be allowed, or free speach will go next.

[Hellmund]

Hmm, I figured this post would be about that annoying T.V show "Big Brother" they show over here in Australia. You can check it out here www.bigbrother.com.au (http://www.bigbrother.com.au) , it's basically where they take people, stick them in a house and watch them with camera's 24/7. My sister constantly calls me up to see who get kicked off..etc. She doesn't have a comp or Net connection so I have to look it up for her( There's no way I'm actually going to watch this show ).

Those camera's could be a good thing but only if they were to put them in high-crime area's. The only concern I'd feel is that if they start where will they stop?

[jad1097]

BBA, I do not agree, it is spying.


Socalgal, it's more like they are telling the general public about 14 of them. Several years back our city decided to finally let the general public know about 15-21 of the many cameras installed, they even brodcast them on the city TV channel.

The only question I have is why have they been there if not used for crime prevention and I am sure I will never find out why.




[This message has been edited by jad1097 (edited 06-14-2001).]

[Richard_Cranium72]

We've had cameras in Atlanta and Marietta Ga for decades..
At least on the interstate highway system.

They "use" them to monitor highway accidents and traffic jams.

We also have X-Band Radar & Camera's north of Atlanta on I-75 but what the "real" purpose is unknown.

I assume it is to study flow of traffic.

DrVette

[BBA]

I don't think it's anymore spying than you taking your camera downtown and taking pictures.

[Steve R Jones]

I think the cameras are here to stay. They can come in handy for checking traffic: http://www.daltrans.org/dal-cam-nf.htm

What I’d be paranoid about if I owned a cell phone, is that in the near future just about anybody can get a print out showing where your cell phone has been at any given point in the day.

[BBA]

I can say...I am not scared about big brother...I expect it.

I am a realistic person, I know it will happen.

Do I like it? NO
Can I stop it? NO
Can I deal with it? YES

You have to be smarter than the machine, or get chewed up by the gears.

Reality

[jad1097]

It is spying by definition.

They are used in some areas by the police to monitor known drug areas. Usally in pulic housing projects where they have a sub-station set up.

[Raist]

Personally I feel this is just one step in the walk towards the elimination of personal privacy. Not that our government is trying to do this but it begs the question, How much is to much? All sorts of reasons can be made up for putting a camera in this place or that place. And if a camera in an intersection is ok to try and cut down people running red lights then you could say that cameras in our homes would be ok based on the fact that people do illegal things in their homes and this would help cut down on crime there. I know this is extreme and I'm not saying that surveilance cameras used properly are bad, but if we allow it personal freedom and privacy can be erroded piece by piece. Give up a piece here, a piece there and eventually Big Brother will be watching T.V with you in your own living room. My $.02 worth -Raist

[Jonty]

I think that if you're not doing anything illegal then what does it matter if a camera is watching? I'm not offended by them at all.

Out of interest Great Britain has the highest number of CCTV cameras per capita in the whole world.

[Raist]

Well, thats you and your fellow countrymens choice to allow that. I personally value my privacy.

[Warthog]

Well, your gov in GB is an entire different story (no firearms, **** load of cameras, etc.). When I watch those cop shows on TLC, they always show footage through the cameras on the roads in GB.

Warthog

[BBA]

caddmannq....

So...From what you posted...I get, that you feel freedom is the 'Bad Guy' ?

No...who values privacy? I didn't know such a thing existed on public property. Just seems contradictory...private in public...lol.

[justy]

They are used, fairly extensively in Dublin, for traffic control and monitoring. I have yet to hear of a case, where judical action has been taken against someone as a result of this monitoring. Real time weather sites use them also.
You can view one at the link below, O'Connell Bridge Dublin.
http://www.ireland.com/weather/cam.htm

I think I can agree with Jonty, but I see the fears of others. If you have nothing to hide, why worry.

All the best, Justy.

[charmler]

"He who trades a little liberty for a little security deserves neither" or something similar was said by a prominent ex-British national. Wonder who? Who can blame him for assisting the other colonials in the British civil war of 1775. It would have been called that if the Brits won.
I think the quickest way to control the citizenry of any nation is a little bit at a time. Slowly, incessantly, deliberately, completely.
Make the citizens dependant on the government for everything and they no longer dare complain.
I choose not to break the law and therefore I deserve some privacy. Would you have a problem with some TV show broadcasting some minor mishap we all have at one time or another? Like picking your ___
or scratching your___. Let's say I set up a video and thermal imaging camera outside your house. I can see what you are doing 24/7 with IR. The Supreme Court says police can't do it because it constitutes a search. Where will it end? Look at GB and see how the violent crime rate has plummeted. Oh yeah, that was here.

[Sanman]

Makes me even more happy that I live in the country http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

As far as the cameras , I think they would be useful mounted on a traffic light,or along the highway. We just had a string of someone in a residential neighborhood shooting cars on the highway with a B.B. gun.So they would be a good thing.
But to have them mounted randomly , watching sidewalks and and general activity. Then I would have to disagree with having them.

[jad1097]

Cadd, it is not quite like "1984".

Car Audio is a hobby like any other. Is Drag racing not a hobby? Is fishing not one either? They all provide a feeling of accomplishment when done. Do you know anything about organized Car Audio competitions? With the exception of Db drag racing (SPL contest) it is about sound quality and tricked out installs.

Free TV does not have the educational channels that cable and/or satellite offers. Or does it and I am just not aware of it.


I personally do not buy clothes at Wal-Mart because most of the products in that store are not made in the U.S.A. but are made in China. In fact I usually do my clothes shopping in second hand stores.


Everything you do on the Internet is tracked so there is BB again.


Some of your points are irrelevant.




[This message has been edited by jad1097 (edited 06-14-2001).]

[BBA]

Cadd...what I am getting at is that "Modern Mass Marketing" and all other things you listed are simply different ways people want to run their lives...not at all wrong...they are free to choose how to act and live.

I see if we told people they should not do those things...we are removing their freedom.

As for camera's in public...just because you don't like who is taking pictures doesn't mean you should stop it. What if you wanted to make a movie on public landscape...same thing applies...your free to do so.

Is BB hurting the masses with high technology?...I don't see technology as a threat, but as a challenge...and it's there whether I like it or not.

You have always been spied on...from youth in a small town where everyone knows everyone else to the big city in school...someone knows your business, and you learn who to talk to and where to talk...nothing is any different now, just higher tech!

[JCB]

I SEE YOU...

[cedar2]

Caddmannq, you`re right. It`s not the watching that is the problem, its the brainwashing. Mass marketing is turning people into sheep, and even worse, making them think they are better off for it. Consumption has become a way of life, and it is the pieces of silver with which we are paid for sacrificing our independence.

[samwichse]

"Cable TV, because free TV is not entertaining enough.
Big trucks & SUV's for everyday vehicles, even though they are expensive to own, and we're running them around empty.
Pentium 4's with TV cards, just to surf the internet, because we have to wear out a $2000 PC instead of just a $400 TV watching streaming video.
500 watt car stereos, because we'd feel like losers with a wimpy stereo, and someone in the next car might not be as anoyed with our noise as we are with their's.
Expensive clothing and accessories with fancy designer labels, because someone influential might look at us funny if we shop at Target or Walmart, or even Sears."

Funny, I don't own a single one of these things. No cable TV, a little bug, an AMD with cheapo ATI graphics card http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif, car audio assembled from... bits and pieces, and Target makes some mighty fine blue jeans http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif. I must be a sociopath.

[This message has been edited by samwichse (edited 06-14-2001).]

[scotter]

we have 14 red light cameras here in san diego they just got turned off come to find out the company that controls them where manipulating the yellow lights and had moved the censers with out telling anyone into a position that was to close

now they have found document's that the company placed the cameras in place's that would make the most $

not at light with the highest traffic acident rates.

Cameras are not about law inforcment there about making $ look at whos idea it is to put them up and who is paying for them and who is going to monitor them.

[socalgal]

Exactly.. Who controls the controllers? I'm for reducing crime, but where are the limits?

On tonight's news report, the cops are cracking down on drivers without front license plates! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif Ugh. A front plate ruins the look of the nose of my car (among other things.. ;-) )

Maybe I should've titled this my nightly whine report. lol

[Mortis]

Either that or Wine Report... "The latest Bordeaux Revue? The latest Merlot Tasting..." hehe

Seriously...

If cameras were used for the sole purpose of safety, I would not object... But at what point do they surpass that? Your house or mine... I am against CAMERAS... !!!!!!!! NO ON BIG BROTHER!

Mortis


[This message has been edited by Mortis (edited 06-15-2001).]

[jad1097]

Well Cadd I have done many extreme things in my life. With the exception of the last several years I have “lived life on the edge”.

I do agree with you and see the validity of your points and have no argument other than denial.


I am in the beginnings of building a competition system, dropping the car etc… I am also thinking of a drag car, 64 Chevy II (prefered) if I can find a cheap rolling chassis, less than a G. For me it is the building process, audio, cars, computers, etc… I simply enjoy working with my hands, hence my profession. I take pride in work, which should read I am meticulous.

As you say none of this is human need but is competition not human need/nature, I think it is. There is little I can do about it. I don’t enjoy many of the things the common male does such as football, I would rather be in the garden growing produce for my family that is untainted by numerous unknown chemicals.


Socal, don’t waste your time worrying about it. There is no sense in it.

[CMonster]

I think my next project will be a mobile cutting laser.

[charmler]

Hey cmonster, I don't suggest you attempt to build anything to cause destruction to others property but I found something at the bottom of this page that will destroy your own property. Microwave gun (http://www.powerlabs.org/uwavexp.htm)

[pickel]

From the way I've observed Californians driving here in Mississippi, they need more than cameras!!!!!!!!!

Just kidding....... really!!! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Roy]

The U.S. Supreme Court has established some very rigid guidlines for "expected reasonable right of privacy". What you may be <u>seen doing in public</u> is not protected. What you <u>say</u> where you have reason to expect <u>no one is listening</u> <u>is</u> protected ... e.g. a private <u>conversation</u> in a public place.

Just last week, the use of heat sensors to discover marijuana "grow lights" was shot down. That's unreasonable search. Spotting your weed patch from the air is acceptable.