My VW is dead :-(

[samwichse]

Some times it won't start when it is hot. So I waited 3 hours and tried again and still nothing.

Yes, I checked the gas, plenty. Spark plugs and wires are fine.

Specs:
66 VW, 6 volt converted to 12 volt.
1300cc engine with new pistons/jugs to increase displacement to 1500cc.
Weber dual single port carbs.
Header exhaust with a glass packed muffler.

The problems with no hot starting started with the new carborators, sometimes it would just barely kick and chug before it would die when you tried to start warm, but once it did that once (like it was running out the gas?) it would be dead till it was cold again.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGG GGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's no mechanic who knows the first thing about VW's in about a 150 mile radius.

[MiKe85]

Wrong forum?

[charmler]

Sounds like vapor lock. Are you using alcohol or some other fuel additive? Try routing the fuel line a long way around the hotspots. I would also set the points closer than specs when new as they start wearing out right off the bat. If it is running lean it will get too hot and could damage the engine. Look for any kind of an air leak as that is the most common cause of lean burn. Use WD-40 and spray around the base of the carbs and manifolds. Any change in rpm is an air leak. Clean the engine as VW's like to be clean. They look nicer too.

[Zakalwe]

I wonder if the carbs are supplying too much gas and flooding it. Perhaps naffing about with the mixture settings on the carbs would make a difference.

Alex

[Mntsnow]

^^

[This message has been edited by Mntsnow (edited 06-14-2001).]

[samwichse]

It wouldn't be the first car problem in general tech http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif.

I'm not using any fuel additive (had the valves redone with hardened valve guides) would vapor lock still be concerned? The fuel lines are now running along the surface of the shrouds around the pistons/jugs.

Also, I've already checked it for air leaks, and it's sealed up tight (I even took it to a professional to corroborate). The points and condenser have been replaced, along with the plug wires and pretty much anything else that would give a weak spark.

Man... for the first time since I've had it, I'm considering the advantages of a watercooler over an aircooler...

[deltaf508]

Buy the book "How to Keep your Volkswagen Alive: A Manual of Step by Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot". It will be worth it to you in the long run if you plan to keep your V-Dub. I have this book and a 1973 Beetle. It has a lot of Information and is very easy to read and understand. I can't say that you will be able to fix your car as it is up to you to understand and comprehend what the book says, but honestly every person with an old volkswagen should have this book regardless. I used it to help rebuild my carb. and it was very helpful for the process. You can get it at any major bookstore (ie. Barnes & Noble, Amazon, etc.)

Good Luck, Hope this helps,

Gary
Proud owner of a 1973 Stock VW Beetle www.hughespc.com (http://www.hughespc.com)

[samwichse]

Way ahead of you, I've had that book for 2 and a half years now http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif.

[deltaf508]

Glad to hear You have the book, it's good isn't it. I've had mine for about 5 years now, but thank goodness I haven't had to use it that much...

BTW: I still don't know whats wrong with your car, Mine does the same thing when it gets hot but it always starts back up again (knock on wood) http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Good Luck,

Gary

[charmler]

Don't give up yet. See if there is any carbon tracing in the new cap. In the dark look for spark jumping to ground. Check the wires for resistance or try solid wires. Check the timing again and set it 8 degrees late from specs. It will start easier but run worse. Check the coil for proper resistance and continuity. Is the coil a 6 volt hooked through a resister or a 12 volt and no resister. If 12 volt make sure the resister doesn't kill the coil voltage. Sometimes the car starts and when you release the key it stops or does it keep running? The key switch could be bad, try a hot wire to the coil from the battery. Check fuel pump volume by running hose to a container with no pressure. Now try same thing through a pressure regulator. Does it flow with adequate pressure and volume?

[samwichse]

Unfortunately I am living in a college dorm room, so all I really have for tools are some screwdrivers and sockets.

"See if there is any carbon tracing in the new cap."

What exactly does this mean?

The coil is a bosche 12V unit, and the problem doesn't seem to be in the switch (although it is like Back to the Future, you have to be me to turn the key http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif).

I can't check the fuel pump volume without running the engine 'cause it's mechanical (a diaphram pump driven by a rod off the crank).

delta: yeah, that is how mine has been, but it's obnoxious to have to plan your day to either not stop at all or stop for at least an hour and a half.

caddmannq: it's weird because only one of the carbs has a choke??? When you do eventually get it started, it's usually a white puff of smoke before things settle out properly.

[This message has been edited by samwichse (edited 06-14-2001).]

[samwichse]

Thanks for all the replies. If I can get it home this weekend, I'll try those suggestions caddmannq.

I was pretty ticked at it last night and some bad things went through my mind, but you know, I honestly don't think I would sell this car if someone offered me double its value http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif.

[Goldwingnut]

What changed just before this started?

Did you improve something? Did the arrival of hot weather bring this on?

Do the accelerator pumps squirt fuel down the carb throats when it won't start?

What an engine needs to run is a proper fuel/air mix, a properly timed spark and compression. One of these is going away when the car warms up. It isn't likely to be compression or spark.

What are you using for a fuel feed? Gravity, electric pump?

If it's an electric pump, is it at the tank end, where it belongs, or at the engine end, where electric pumps don't work so well? They're great pushers and lousy pullers.

Can you arrange a temporary gravity feed to test it when it won't start? Like a motorcycle gas tank on a sawhorse. This will let you verify if fuel feeding is the problem.

When you get this problem solved, my advice would be to scrap the points and find a Crane XR-700 electronic ignition. The one I had on my MGB solved all of my ignition problems.

[samwichse]

Ok, I got it started and home. Started on the first turn this morning. I had someone reccomend a new fuel pump saying the old one wasn't supplying enough gas and that it was all being vaporized before it got there.

[nunyadam]

struggles ,
you beat me to it on the clothes pin advice. Alot of people will think that's just plain crazy but it does work for vapor lock. The trick is to find the right placement.
If you can find small metal clip's they work even better as long as they don't crimp the line they work as mini heat sink's.

nunya

[struggles]

Any internal combustion engine needs 3 things to happen for combustion to take place.

Fuel

Spark

Timing

I know this sounds obvious but its what I always refer myself to when working on cars.The old KISS rule.

1. make sure you have good spark
2. Fuel (enough?,too much?)
3. Proper timing

Its easy to go way offcourse with a no-start. Sounds to me like your not getting enough fuel. Vapor lock is common. Try a clothespin on the rubber fuel line. Or simply dump some fuel down the carb or carbs and crank er over.If no joy, check out spark and timing.Do a compression test when its hot.Yank a plug wire and check for good spark!If you got all three, it will start!

[samwichse]

Ok, well...

First I drove around and got it good and hot.

Then I tried dumping a (small) amount of gas down each carb and cranking it, but no dice. All that happened was each time a puff of white haze came out of the tops of the carbs when the throttle body opened.

So then I had someone else crank it while I held down the choke (held if completely closed) and it started up on the second turn!

So I don't know why dumping the gas wouldn't work but holding the choke closed will, but I'm having a heck of a time finding a 15' long choke cable...

Nice thing about old cars: no diagnostic equipment required http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif.

[charmler]

With two cable mounts placed along the frame 6-8 inches apart, you can use two choke cables joined together at the mounts. Just cut the pull handle off one and bolt the two together with a small bolt, washer, nut and locktite.

[Kuasimodem]

We had this same problem with my dad's trike, which is powered by a '69 Beetle 1600cc engine. We finally traced the problem to not enough fuel supply on hot starts, so we went to a regulated electric fuel pump. It seems the stock fuel pump can't flow enough volume to feed both carbs.

Just get a universal inline pump kit that is regulated to 4-7psi. We got his at a local parts shop for about $30, and it came with all the fittings and clamps.

Also, if you can afford it, put in an electronic ignition conversion kit, world's of improvement in starting and power!