voogru
11-09-2000, 06:09 PM
Did Al Gore Steal The Popular Vote?
http://www.newsmax.com/commentmax/articles/Paul_Weyrich.shtml
http://www.newsmax.com/commentmax/articles/Paul_Weyrich.shtml
Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : PROOF That Al Gore is Cheating!!!!
Ygor
11-09-2000, 06:21 PM
Yea right.
Just because Gore wins the popular vote, republicans will say he "stole" it.
Is there such a thing as a fair republican? By the looks of the threads here, that's as likely as an "honest politician"
Just because Gore wins the popular vote, republicans will say he "stole" it.
Is there such a thing as a fair republican? By the looks of the threads here, that's as likely as an "honest politician"
barry glisson
11-09-2000, 06:34 PM
Not all politics are conducted like they are in Miami Voogru or are you too young to have been around when the Mayor was removed for election fraud? If you are going to b.s. someone kid don't try it with some one that has lived in the state for 60 years. barry
Savant
11-09-2000, 06:40 PM
maybe, but even if he didn't cheat in any way (oh right...) isn't he still behind?
narayan
11-09-2000, 06:56 PM
Hey barry, take it easy on ILC(~edit I meant voogru). He seems to pay attention to what happens in our government. After all of the **** of the last 8 long, horrible years, one can understand why someone would believe that there is voter fraud. There was an investigation started tonight involving the Post Office. It's not so hard to believe. These are shameless people who just can't accept loss. Count. Count again. Count again. BULLSH*T.
[This message has been edited by narayan (edited 11-10-2000).]
[This message has been edited by narayan (edited 11-10-2000).]
jeana
11-09-2000, 08:49 PM
Well, all sorts of rumors are flying around and at the moment it's hard to tell what really happened. This is why they're asking for a hand-count in Volusia (see the section called "Vanishing Votes in Volusia?)
10,000 missing votes for Gore? (http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/ELECTION_WatchdogPart4001107.html)
16,000 missing votes? (http://www.insidecentralflorida.com/news/2000/11/08/volusia_ballots.html)
There has been all sorts of weird stuff going on, like double ballots being sent to overseas voters. When all the data's in and I have a moment, I am also going to do a couple of statistical tests on the changes caused by the recounts, to see if there is some nonrandom pattern. By eye, it looks to me like there were many more votes for Gore than for Bush added by the recount. I don't know if the number is significant. Before you run off crying "Cheat!", note that it would have been a lot easier to cheat in the original count than in the closely scrutinized recounts.
In general, I'd reject the conspiracy theory that Al or W. themselves or their campaigns are responsible, but I wouldn't put it past local Democrats or Republicans to try to get the edge by unethical means. There's also a large factor of human error and carelessness going on.
I really don't know. Despite their claims, neither party has a clear mandate from the people, and the cutoff will be arbitrary. I'll bet that a graceful loser will end up being a much more popular man than the winner. However, each candidate has an obligation to the people who voted and worked for him to not give up too easily.
10,000 missing votes for Gore? (http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/ELECTION_WatchdogPart4001107.html)
16,000 missing votes? (http://www.insidecentralflorida.com/news/2000/11/08/volusia_ballots.html)
There has been all sorts of weird stuff going on, like double ballots being sent to overseas voters. When all the data's in and I have a moment, I am also going to do a couple of statistical tests on the changes caused by the recounts, to see if there is some nonrandom pattern. By eye, it looks to me like there were many more votes for Gore than for Bush added by the recount. I don't know if the number is significant. Before you run off crying "Cheat!", note that it would have been a lot easier to cheat in the original count than in the closely scrutinized recounts.
In general, I'd reject the conspiracy theory that Al or W. themselves or their campaigns are responsible, but I wouldn't put it past local Democrats or Republicans to try to get the edge by unethical means. There's also a large factor of human error and carelessness going on.
I really don't know. Despite their claims, neither party has a clear mandate from the people, and the cutoff will be arbitrary. I'll bet that a graceful loser will end up being a much more popular man than the winner. However, each candidate has an obligation to the people who voted and worked for him to not give up too easily.
jacobnero8196
11-09-2000, 09:06 PM
I believe that the Democrats did do some possible illegal things to get people to vote for them. The cigarettes thing is just outrageous. I think Al Gore will sue his way into the White House. He just won't accept a loss.
BBA
11-09-2000, 09:11 PM
Even if he does loose...Clinton will claim executive priviledge and overrule the vote, and martial law if needed, just to stay in office.
Those two are the most crooked pair ever!
Those two are the most crooked pair ever!
Fingers
11-09-2000, 09:29 PM
I think that this re-count it too important for someone not to try to "help" their man.
Jeana, what's your take on this?
McCollum, the Republican senator actually recieved a higher percentage of the vote in Palm Beach than did the Republican Presidential candidate, even thought he was beaten solidly in the state, but Bush runs in a virtual dead heat with Gore statewide. Maybe those Buchanan votes belong in the box above Buchanans name... not below?
Florida County Returns (http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/2000vote/general/FL_county.html)
Jeana, what's your take on this?
McCollum, the Republican senator actually recieved a higher percentage of the vote in Palm Beach than did the Republican Presidential candidate, even thought he was beaten solidly in the state, but Bush runs in a virtual dead heat with Gore statewide. Maybe those Buchanan votes belong in the box above Buchanans name... not below?
Florida County Returns (http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/2000vote/general/FL_county.html)
scotter
11-09-2000, 11:21 PM
well here ya go on the news tonight they had a lady who moved here to san diego more than a year ago registerd to vote here, sent the info back to florida that she was registered here she still got a ballit sent to her from florida ? how maney more people are like that voting in 2 states ?
ILC
11-10-2000, 08:30 PM
Narayan, thanks for sticking up for me but can I get a link to wear Barry is smashing me, being that I have barely been here the last two weeks.
Lol, republicans are dirty.......and liberals are perfect little white angels. LOL. Gore is the one who wont accept defeat. Liberals are the ones sueign becuase they are to stupid to see a black arrow on the ballot, liberals are the ones who "bought" votes for gore. This is rediculous. Liberals are the ones who would love to see our consitution torn up, and a communism set up, headed by good ol Billy Bob of Arkansas.
ILC
Sorry got a rant and couldnt stop.
Lol, republicans are dirty.......and liberals are perfect little white angels. LOL. Gore is the one who wont accept defeat. Liberals are the ones sueign becuase they are to stupid to see a black arrow on the ballot, liberals are the ones who "bought" votes for gore. This is rediculous. Liberals are the ones who would love to see our consitution torn up, and a communism set up, headed by good ol Billy Bob of Arkansas.
ILC
Sorry got a rant and couldnt stop.
narayan
11-10-2000, 10:40 PM
Here you go, ILC. I don't have a link to the investigation, I just heard it on FoxNews either last night or the night before.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_dougherty/20001110_xnjdo_congressma.shtml
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_dougherty/20001110_xnjdo_congressma.shtml
Ygor
11-10-2000, 10:54 PM
Sheesh, the republican lying and whining never ends around here.
I know if Gore wins yer all gonna whine & make ridiculous accusations for the next 4 years.
Being that childish is not going to sway the results though.
The election is over. Let the system work. Whether your candidate becomes President or not is no longer in your hands.
Or keep *****ing and whining since that seems to be your way.
I know if Gore wins yer all gonna whine & make ridiculous accusations for the next 4 years.
Being that childish is not going to sway the results though.
The election is over. Let the system work. Whether your candidate becomes President or not is no longer in your hands.
Or keep *****ing and whining since that seems to be your way.
alondra
11-10-2000, 11:54 PM
send the Rev. and all the lawyers
home. and when this recount is over
(is it the third or fourth) and the absentees are counted honor it.
and that is that.
[This message has been edited by alondra (edited 11-10-2000).]
home. and when this recount is over
(is it the third or fourth) and the absentees are counted honor it.
and that is that.
[This message has been edited by alondra (edited 11-10-2000).]
narayan
11-12-2000, 07:04 AM
Republican whining? Where have you been?
ILC
11-12-2000, 09:20 PM
LOL...Ygor you are jokin right? Republicans whining?!? HAHA that is a good one. ROFL.
Gore is the one being a cry baby! He cant accept the fact that he has lost twice FLA already and now he wont quit crying until somehow he does manage to pull off a win. LIBERALS ARE THE CRYBABYS RIGHT NOW!
ILC
Gore is the one being a cry baby! He cant accept the fact that he has lost twice FLA already and now he wont quit crying until somehow he does manage to pull off a win. LIBERALS ARE THE CRYBABYS RIGHT NOW!
ILC
stylin19
11-13-2000, 08:06 AM
here is a link to a new article regarding Demos & chads & election stealing:
how dems steal elections (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/20001113_xex_how_democrat.shtml)
scares the beejeebers outta me.
I now am rethinking my opinion that the dems are doing it "by the numbers" by using the law.
It appears Fla. law will now be challenged by the demos re: filing deadlines.
how dems steal elections (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/20001113_xex_how_democrat.shtml)
scares the beejeebers outta me.
I now am rethinking my opinion that the dems are doing it "by the numbers" by using the law.
It appears Fla. law will now be challenged by the demos re: filing deadlines.
Ygor
11-13-2000, 08:36 AM
I've been reading these threads, Narayan and ILC. If you can look at these threads objectively, you'll see where the name-calling and whining come from. You may not be able to be objective yet, but that's ok.
The republicans I've known were for states rights and individual responsibility.
Florida has the same law that Bush signed in Texas regarding manual recounts by people, (not machines)yet he wants to deny Florida it's own law with an injunction.
Florida had many problems with this election, no doubt. According to Florida state law (checked on by a republican friend of mine) the "butterfly" ballot posted in another thread here is illegal.
So Florida has to decide (among other things)whether to just throw ALL those ballots out or not. Throwing those out obviously disenfranchises those voters, which is also probably illegal since it was the state's or election board's fault, not the voters.
Whatever happens in Florida, they should be able to follow their own laws in this matter. Denying them that comes a lot closer to martial law than anything else so far.
The republicans I've known were for states rights and individual responsibility.
Florida has the same law that Bush signed in Texas regarding manual recounts by people, (not machines)yet he wants to deny Florida it's own law with an injunction.
Florida had many problems with this election, no doubt. According to Florida state law (checked on by a republican friend of mine) the "butterfly" ballot posted in another thread here is illegal.
So Florida has to decide (among other things)whether to just throw ALL those ballots out or not. Throwing those out obviously disenfranchises those voters, which is also probably illegal since it was the state's or election board's fault, not the voters.
Whatever happens in Florida, they should be able to follow their own laws in this matter. Denying them that comes a lot closer to martial law than anything else so far.
jeana
11-13-2000, 08:57 AM
I just took a look at your article stylin...
Don't forget that the main source here was himself jailed for two years for corruption.
His three points:
"The first rule is, you keep counting until you're ahead. And if that doesn't put you ahead, you recount, re-recount -- you keep counting until you're ahead. If you're behind, then you've got nothing to lose."
Second, Nolan said, "the more times those ballots are handled, the more chance there is that chads will break loose" and hence disqualify the ballot.
Third, he said, "the minute you're ahead, you stop and declare yourself the victor."
First of all, Gore campaign _can't_ demand recount after recount. They have just this hand-count left and they may not get even that. The first machine recount was mandatory-- they also have valid complaints for wanting a hand-recounts. A party does have something to lose by trying to ask for more recounts-- their future popularity if they're seen to be trying to manipulate the vote.
Second, Gore campaign does not want to lose a single vote by excessive handling that jostles loose chad. They are trying to do the opposite of disqualifying ballots. The workers are also under scrutiny by Republican watchers, and must zoom through the ballots to get them done before tomorrow 5pm.
Third, the Bush campaign is following this strategy as well.
Fingers,
We'd need a strong correlation between the propensity to vote for a Republican local candidate and the propensity to vote for Buchanon... in which case other counties that voted for McCollum should have had comparable numbers of Buchanon votes. The number of votes for Buchanon in Palm Beach is just too much to explain (hundreds of times greater than expected if P.B. were merely an average to right-leaning county).
It sounds like the theory that Palm Beach is a Buchanon stronghold is pure propaganda:
The Bush campaign claimed that registration for Buchanan's Reform Party and two "affiliated" parties had jumped 110 percent since 1996, which explained his support. That was, to be charitable, disingenuous; the two smaller parties are actually anti-Buchanan, and there are only 337 Reform members in the county.
from http://www.msnbc.com/news/488902.asp
Don't forget that the main source here was himself jailed for two years for corruption.
His three points:
"The first rule is, you keep counting until you're ahead. And if that doesn't put you ahead, you recount, re-recount -- you keep counting until you're ahead. If you're behind, then you've got nothing to lose."
Second, Nolan said, "the more times those ballots are handled, the more chance there is that chads will break loose" and hence disqualify the ballot.
Third, he said, "the minute you're ahead, you stop and declare yourself the victor."
First of all, Gore campaign _can't_ demand recount after recount. They have just this hand-count left and they may not get even that. The first machine recount was mandatory-- they also have valid complaints for wanting a hand-recounts. A party does have something to lose by trying to ask for more recounts-- their future popularity if they're seen to be trying to manipulate the vote.
Second, Gore campaign does not want to lose a single vote by excessive handling that jostles loose chad. They are trying to do the opposite of disqualifying ballots. The workers are also under scrutiny by Republican watchers, and must zoom through the ballots to get them done before tomorrow 5pm.
Third, the Bush campaign is following this strategy as well.
Fingers,
We'd need a strong correlation between the propensity to vote for a Republican local candidate and the propensity to vote for Buchanon... in which case other counties that voted for McCollum should have had comparable numbers of Buchanon votes. The number of votes for Buchanon in Palm Beach is just too much to explain (hundreds of times greater than expected if P.B. were merely an average to right-leaning county).
It sounds like the theory that Palm Beach is a Buchanon stronghold is pure propaganda:
The Bush campaign claimed that registration for Buchanan's Reform Party and two "affiliated" parties had jumped 110 percent since 1996, which explained his support. That was, to be charitable, disingenuous; the two smaller parties are actually anti-Buchanan, and there are only 337 Reform members in the county.
from http://www.msnbc.com/news/488902.asp
BBA
11-13-2000, 09:29 AM
YGOR...
look at the law for yourself if you think something is illegal...of course you should be a lawyer first.
However...I can say, the LAWYERS HAVE proclaimed the balot machine was legally designed, tested and implemented... as it followed the legal requirements for a baloting machine to a tee.
My only question is WHY do all these IDIOTS still say it was illegal?
Especially when the only law they can recite is written SPECIFICALLY for a "Vote by PAPER BALOT", of which said law has NO CONTROL of voting MACHINES, only PAPER BALOTS!
What I am saying is the law governing that type balot is not the "Voting by Paper balot" law.
Ygor: You are WRONG!
look at the law for yourself if you think something is illegal...of course you should be a lawyer first.
However...I can say, the LAWYERS HAVE proclaimed the balot machine was legally designed, tested and implemented... as it followed the legal requirements for a baloting machine to a tee.
My only question is WHY do all these IDIOTS still say it was illegal?
Especially when the only law they can recite is written SPECIFICALLY for a "Vote by PAPER BALOT", of which said law has NO CONTROL of voting MACHINES, only PAPER BALOTS!
What I am saying is the law governing that type balot is not the "Voting by Paper balot" law.
Ygor: You are WRONG!
stylin19
11-13-2000, 09:31 AM
jeana
too funny ! you pick & choose what you want to use to discredit the article.
Bob Haueter, chief of staff to the California Assembly Republican Caucus, and an expert on manual recounts has no black marks against his name.
Who are you kidding..Gore just asked to recount an additional (5th) county. wouldnt have anythin to do with recount in volusia showing gains for GW, would it ? recount..recount..recount.
The dems follow state law, when it's usefull to them, adn they claim the "high road". When it's not,they sue and STILL claim the high road. (Volusia sues to extend deadline)
Both sides stink...regardless how much either spins it.
too funny ! you pick & choose what you want to use to discredit the article.
Bob Haueter, chief of staff to the California Assembly Republican Caucus, and an expert on manual recounts has no black marks against his name.
Who are you kidding..Gore just asked to recount an additional (5th) county. wouldnt have anythin to do with recount in volusia showing gains for GW, would it ? recount..recount..recount.
The dems follow state law, when it's usefull to them, adn they claim the "high road". When it's not,they sue and STILL claim the high road. (Volusia sues to extend deadline)
Both sides stink...regardless how much either spins it.
BBA
11-13-2000, 09:34 AM
BTW: I love when the LAW is followed!
It should have been followed in DC by congress when Bill Clinton perjured himself in fron of a Congressional Grand Jury!
Aparently, by the way it looks right now...the LAW can still be followed in Florida...thank GOD!
5:00 Tomorrow...be there or be ye not counted!
( BTW: another county found over 300 votes for Bush not counted...so his lead even increases more )
[This message has been edited by BBA (edited 11-13-2000).]
It should have been followed in DC by congress when Bill Clinton perjured himself in fron of a Congressional Grand Jury!
Aparently, by the way it looks right now...the LAW can still be followed in Florida...thank GOD!
5:00 Tomorrow...be there or be ye not counted!
( BTW: another county found over 300 votes for Bush not counted...so his lead even increases more )
[This message has been edited by BBA (edited 11-13-2000).]
stylin19
11-13-2000, 09:36 AM
The butterfly ballot legality is probably moot. They found a different law that is specific to non-paper ballots.
And Fla. has given a legal opinion, that the butterfly falls within the parameters.
And Fla. has given a legal opinion, that the butterfly falls within the parameters.
Ygor
11-13-2000, 09:39 AM
Obviously emotions are still running too high on all this.
BBA, I have the highest regard for your technical abilities and background info with computers and cars. I really mean that.
However, as regards this election I think you are just as WRONG as you have claimed I am.
I'm willing to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Btw...
Link: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0101/SEC5615.HTM&Title=->2000->Ch0101->Section%205615
101.5615 Recounts and election contests.--Recounts and election contests shall be conducted as provided for in this code. The automatic tabulating equipment shall be tested prior to the recount or election contest, as provided in s. 101.5612, if the official ballots or ballot cards are recounted on the automatic tabulating equipment. Each duplicate ballot shall be compared with the original ballot to ensure the correctness of the duplicate.
History.--s. 15, ch. 73-156; s. 21, ch. 77-175; s. 13, ch. 89-348.
Notice the "if" there after the statute #? It is not mandatory that machine-punched ballots be recounted by machine.
[This message has been edited by Ygor (edited 11-13-2000).]
BBA, I have the highest regard for your technical abilities and background info with computers and cars. I really mean that.
However, as regards this election I think you are just as WRONG as you have claimed I am.
I'm willing to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Btw...
Link: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0101/SEC5615.HTM&Title=->2000->Ch0101->Section%205615
101.5615 Recounts and election contests.--Recounts and election contests shall be conducted as provided for in this code. The automatic tabulating equipment shall be tested prior to the recount or election contest, as provided in s. 101.5612, if the official ballots or ballot cards are recounted on the automatic tabulating equipment. Each duplicate ballot shall be compared with the original ballot to ensure the correctness of the duplicate.
History.--s. 15, ch. 73-156; s. 21, ch. 77-175; s. 13, ch. 89-348.
Notice the "if" there after the statute #? It is not mandatory that machine-punched ballots be recounted by machine.
[This message has been edited by Ygor (edited 11-13-2000).]
jeana
11-13-2000, 11:35 AM
stylin,
I take issue with your saying that I pick and choose from your article. Most of the quotes in the article are from Nolan, not Haueter, which is why I assumed he was the main source. Also from your article, Haueter was also once chief of staff to Nolan, so I assumed he was subordinate to Nolan. Downs was or is also a Nolan employee. Admit it , isn't a man convicted for corruption(even as one of two sources) one of the less compelling authorities available? At the very least he has bones to pick.
Fair recounting should have an equal chance of affecting error to either side (as it may have swung to Bush in Volusia.) If the error in a county was excessive, recounting will shrink this, bringing the counts closer to the true count. If the error is already small, the recounts will _add_ error, which again should go to either side.
Asking for sequential recounts and trying to keep the first one that goes your way, in the manner described in your article, is a different case from asking for several simultaneous recounts and adding them together. The first case is saying "I win on heads" and flipping the coin till it is heads. The second case is saying, "flip 5 coins, I am winner if there are more heads."
Show me that they could have known Volusia counts were going bad before they asked for Osceola; and show me that the accusations of discrimination in Osceola have such a weak basis that there is no need to look again and I'll agree with you that they're not playing fair. Since the counts are not done, it's like flipping 5 coins into a bowl of syrup, watching as they slowly turn and sink to the bottom-- and as it appears that they may not go your way, saying "just flip one more!"
Before you take my coin analogy too far and point out that the coins are weighted to Gore, please read my discussion in http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/Forum17/HTML/001644.html
The Dems and the Reps are within law in their requests. It is by law within the discretion of the Canvassing Commission to allow or refuse extension of the deadline. The extension has been refused. The court order has been refused. Both campaigns hint that they will fight these rulings.
Polk county, not on the Democratic recount list, just added 100 votes to Bush by a hand-recount. http://www.theledger.com/local/elections/12pore.htm
I take issue with your saying that I pick and choose from your article. Most of the quotes in the article are from Nolan, not Haueter, which is why I assumed he was the main source. Also from your article, Haueter was also once chief of staff to Nolan, so I assumed he was subordinate to Nolan. Downs was or is also a Nolan employee. Admit it , isn't a man convicted for corruption(even as one of two sources) one of the less compelling authorities available? At the very least he has bones to pick.
Fair recounting should have an equal chance of affecting error to either side (as it may have swung to Bush in Volusia.) If the error in a county was excessive, recounting will shrink this, bringing the counts closer to the true count. If the error is already small, the recounts will _add_ error, which again should go to either side.
Asking for sequential recounts and trying to keep the first one that goes your way, in the manner described in your article, is a different case from asking for several simultaneous recounts and adding them together. The first case is saying "I win on heads" and flipping the coin till it is heads. The second case is saying, "flip 5 coins, I am winner if there are more heads."
Show me that they could have known Volusia counts were going bad before they asked for Osceola; and show me that the accusations of discrimination in Osceola have such a weak basis that there is no need to look again and I'll agree with you that they're not playing fair. Since the counts are not done, it's like flipping 5 coins into a bowl of syrup, watching as they slowly turn and sink to the bottom-- and as it appears that they may not go your way, saying "just flip one more!"
Before you take my coin analogy too far and point out that the coins are weighted to Gore, please read my discussion in http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/Forum17/HTML/001644.html
The Dems and the Reps are within law in their requests. It is by law within the discretion of the Canvassing Commission to allow or refuse extension of the deadline. The extension has been refused. The court order has been refused. Both campaigns hint that they will fight these rulings.
Polk county, not on the Democratic recount list, just added 100 votes to Bush by a hand-recount. http://www.theledger.com/local/elections/12pore.htm
stylin19
11-13-2000, 02:04 PM
never mind. ain't worth the effort.
[This message has been edited by stylin19 (edited 11-13-2000).]
[This message has been edited by stylin19 (edited 11-13-2000).]
barry glisson
11-13-2000, 02:55 PM
Law says a "complete and acurate count"The key word is AND not or AND. By the way what about the other841 counties nation wide that use the same system are you satisfied with a 5-10% error in your totals? barry
narayan
11-13-2000, 03:23 PM
I just got done talking to a former union member from Chicago today who was there when Gotti was in Chicago. He said that they had ballot boxes ready in the event the Republicans pulled ahead in an election. It happens, and if you do not believe that there are crooked people who will fix elections, than you are fooling yourself.
BBA
11-13-2000, 05:04 PM
jeana:
It is by law within the discretion of the Canvassing Commission to allow or refuse extension of the deadline
Actually...it is not within the law...the law says the deadline will be as stated...it leaves no room for moving it up. So, how can anyone assume it was even negotiable at all?
The law governing it is pretty straight forward from what I hear.
You cant really expect anyone to ignore it just becauseyou don't like it...that's not provided for in the law, and is actually opposed by the law itself.
It is by law within the discretion of the Canvassing Commission to allow or refuse extension of the deadline
Actually...it is not within the law...the law says the deadline will be as stated...it leaves no room for moving it up. So, how can anyone assume it was even negotiable at all?
The law governing it is pretty straight forward from what I hear.
You cant really expect anyone to ignore it just becauseyou don't like it...that's not provided for in the law, and is actually opposed by the law itself.
barry glisson
11-13-2000, 10:23 PM
I might be wrong but I believe John Gotti the convicted Godfather is from New York City. There would be a major war if he tried to do "business" in Chicago. barry
stylin19
11-13-2000, 10:38 PM
barry, u aint wrong
Ygor
11-14-2000, 07:30 AM
Aww, Gotti's lawyers would just argue he went there to get some good picante sauce, they ran out of ropes in NYC.
The difference in the reaction to the possibility of the democrats doing anything wrong is obviously quite different to the possibility of the republicans doing anything wrong, sanctioned or not.
I can see where both sides have probably done wrong, but I seem to be the only one here that can say that.
Seems to me that as usual, the only ones that gain from this will be the lawyers.
Despite the title to this thread, I've seen no proof, just opinions & allegations back & forth, some supported at other websites which (aside from the Florida election laws site) I find questionable to say the least and obviously biased at worst.
If there was any real proof credible to objective observers, this would be resolved by now.
Anyone else smell a dead horse?
The difference in the reaction to the possibility of the democrats doing anything wrong is obviously quite different to the possibility of the republicans doing anything wrong, sanctioned or not.
I can see where both sides have probably done wrong, but I seem to be the only one here that can say that.
Seems to me that as usual, the only ones that gain from this will be the lawyers.
Despite the title to this thread, I've seen no proof, just opinions & allegations back & forth, some supported at other websites which (aside from the Florida election laws site) I find questionable to say the least and obviously biased at worst.
If there was any real proof credible to objective observers, this would be resolved by now.
Anyone else smell a dead horse?
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