My home state

[jeana]

Hey, isn't it funny that three major players (Nader, Bush, and
Lieberman) were all born in CT?

And the Bush family was originally from CT which is why they
got mocked for being fake Texans.

Lots of wealthy people here, I guess.

[barry glisson]

And fake floridians.barry

[embalmerd]

Would that be a mock Texan? Is there any such thing as a real Texan?

O oh... http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/frown.gif

[skai]

What the h*ll does CT stand for? skai

[Fingers]

Jeana, are you a "fake" American because you aren't of native American decent? What does your birth State have to do with anything? Is someone less qualified because the were born 2 miles on the "wrong" side of a State line?

I think this so called "mocking" you speek of is only in the minds of those who are non-Bush supporters anyway... "real" Texans certainly support the Bush family.

Your disdain for financial success is obvious, you take shots at and make assumptions about anyone who is well-off. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/frown.gif
WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH BEING WEALTHY?

Skai, Connecticut, USA

[barry glisson]

ask bill gates

[Warthog]

I live in Vermont. The closest Vermont hospital is 40min away. The closest hospital is in New Hampshire, 25min away. Many people I know who have lived in VT their whole lives, were actually born in NH. Big deal.

Warthog

[jeana]

Whoa Fingers! I didn't say there was anything wrong with being rich. I don't have a disdain for, nor am I unfamiliar with, wealthy people. Just because I am for retaining a minimum standard of living in the U.S., which necessarily involves a tax burden on those that can afford it, doesn't mean I'm some jealous sniper. I'm pretty sure that I will end up in the upper middle class and may pay in more in dollars to the system than I have received, and it doesn't bother me. I know how to be happy on little and everything else is frosting on the cake. Some people don't have cake, or even bread, though...

Anyway, I was just commenting that one state out of fifty, and a small one at at that, seemed to be producing a disproportionate number of Presidential candidates. It was more state pride than anything else... I had just read that Nader was born (and raised?) in Winsted, CT, which I did not know before.

As for mocking the Bushes for being fake Texans, well it was a bigger issue for Bush Sr. than W. I didn't say they _ought_ to be mocked for being fake Texans. After all, a certain First Lady is running for office in a state with which she had little previous connection.

[jadinolf]

I was also born in Connecticut (Norwalk).

Wish I was famous.

[Fingers]

Well, I guess I'm just imagining it then.

[Fingers wonders,...but why then did she mention "wealthy people" again in her original post that deals with birthplaces] Ummm [Scratches head in confusion]

[Fingers]

Jeana wrote: Just because I am for retaining a minimum standard of living in the U.S., which necessarily involves a tax burden on those that can afford it, doesn't mean I'm some jealous sniper

Thomas Jefferson wrote: To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association--the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it. -- Thomas Jefferson: Note in Tracy's "Political Economy," 1816

Socialism -vs- Capitalism

Actions speak louder than words, Jeana

[Fingers]

Ok BFlurie, back on topic then.

In the 1988 election, George Bush Sr. and Michael Dukakis were both born in Massachusetts.

US Presidents by State of Birth:

8 - Virginia
7 - Ohio
4 - Massachusetts
4 - New York
2 - Vermont
2 - New Jersey
2 - Texas
2 - North Carolina
1 - New Hampshire
1 - South Carolina
1 - Pennsylvania
1 - Kentucky
1 - Arkansas
1 - Iowa
1 - Missouri
1 - California
1 - Nebraska
1 - Georgia
1 - Illinois

PS. Jeana, not just the opinion of one man; keeping the government out of the personal and financial lives of the citizens was the underling theme of the day.


[This message has been edited by Fingers (edited 11-07-2000).]

[Maxwell T]

jeana - for what it's worth, I commend you on your beliefs, and your standing up for them... I won't go into a long diatribe, but I do agree with you about helping out those whose circumstance prevents them helping themselves.... And on the issue of "wealthy people" living in CT, I live in N. Attleboro, MA (MA all my life) and have always felt the "Standard of Living" so to speak was a little better in CT.

[gyoung]

Fingers- I love that reply. It was exactly what I was thinking. Taking from the rich and giving to other people basically levels everyone. You essentially allow those you don't want to earn a "free ride."

jeana- I understand your wanting to help people out. The problem is that type of philosophy is subjugating other people who don't agree. It is fine to have disagreements over policy. But when the disagreements concern taking something from someone else it is basically stealing. You are taking either money, goods, services, or property without properly compensating the owner.

I believe the real quote was: "Life, Liberty, and Property."

Everyone has a right to keep what they earn. No one should be able to take that away from you. If you feel you can live on less then give that money away freely. I'm sure many would, but the government should have no part in it.

[This message has been edited by gyoung (edited 11-07-2000).]

[jeana]

You can read what you like into my post, Fingers.

Though the words of the writer of the Declaration of Independence merit special attention, his personal opinions remain just the opinions of one man. Except where incorporated and ratified in our Constitution and laws, his thoughts can be counted as only one of many voices in the guidance of our country. And even then, the framers of our government were only human, and their work has required amendments with the passage of time.

Poverty is not solely a fruit of laziness. It is also the yield of misfortune and mistakes. Should the children of a lazy man suffer? Should the children of an unlucky woman suffer? Should the grandchildren of a slave suffer? There are some misfortunes that are difficult to recover from on one's own, like being born into a broken family, or one that does not teach you the wise exercise of your free will.

There are many freedoms, and at no point in U.S. history have we possessed pure freedom, because some freedoms contradict one another (the freedom of privacy; the freedom of speech). It so happens that in reality, the more money/power you have, the more liberty you have to do whatever you want. The finding that inequalities, once begun, tend to propagate themselves, has been played out countless times in civilization. How did the first tyrannies begin? With an inequality that grew.

In the extreme, you may take freedom to include freedom of all U.S. citizens to do whatever they want with their money; I counter that where there is great inequality (as there will be in an unregulated system) liberty and equal rights are endangered.


We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


At any rate, if you do not find a mandate to care for the poor in the U.S. Constitution, you will find it in the Bible, which you (Fingers) as a Christian will take as an authority.

Taxation and welfare are not stealing, if agreed upon by voters. The deal with belonging to this country is that you agree to be bound by the decisions and laws made by the people (even if you personally disagreed.) If you're unhappy with the laws or taxes, you must try to persuade others to help you change them. Our country's peace and justice depend upon this agreement.

You are not giving something for nothing in most cases. You are paying for a peaceful and prosperous environment in which to pursue your own interests and ambitions.

[This message has been edited by jeana (edited 11-07-2000).]

[BFlurie]

Come on, you guys. I may in principle even agree with you, but those responses are hardly in keeping with her casual, innocuous post.

[jeana]

Thanks BFlurie,

it seems like almost every discussion I get involved in goes heavy. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/frown.gif

Maybe after this I will try to talk only about WOW (Women of Wrestling) and see if things lighten up. I've only watched them once so far, so I wouldn't have much to say about them either. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif

[barry glisson]

The only town in the country that doesn't have a down side is Celebration. And believe me you don't want to live there.