Public or Private Schools?

[akaBruno]

What school system were you guys brought up in?

I was raised in the Iowa public school system, back in the days when it was #1. Anybody have to take Iowa Basic Skills tests every year???

Bruno

[clinny]

I was a comprehensive kid (which I think is the equivelant of US Public schools?). Still ended doing the same job as some who'd been to private schools - what a load of money their parents wasted!

BTW its a bit weird in UK - Private and Public are both private (though Public is posher - obviously!) http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif

[Warthog]

Public all the way.

Warthog

[Joel Kleppinger]

As anyone has read my post in the Al Gore thread knows, I spent some time in both private and public. I'll be a little more detailed here:

Preschool - Some Methodist school... I remember it, but all I did was learn the alphabet and run around with a girl I liked at that age (cut me some slack here.. I never hated girls http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif).

Kindergarten through 3rd - It was a K-12 school in an Assemblies of God church using ACE curriculum. All the students except those in kindergarten worked in the same room... reminscent of those pics of the 1800s schools (except we were organized around the the wall and did seperate work). As for the curriculum, it was at least adaquate and when I entered 4th grade in public school, I was the only student that could do any >2 digit arithmetic (add/subtract/divide/multiply) in my head. The math in those books was TOUGH, but I made it interesting.

4th grade - went to the local Kansas public elementary school. Don't remember a lot other than getting a bunch of guys together and creating a 12-foot long mural depicting islandic land/naval/air war.

5th and 6th grades - local Kansas public middle school. Still don't remember much of the curriculum then. Had a Science/Social Studies teacher that was VERY strict and whom I grew to respect... he died that Feb (5th grade) of a heart attack. I was identified as a "bright student" and had a special class where we did a lot of extra more interesting stuff. I had my first taste of the stock market and business world in that class.

7th grade - Moved to MO and picked up at the middle school there just outside of KC. The band program rocks there in Liberty (I was way behind and I had been playing for a year longer). It was pretty easy and I was allowed by some good teachers to go off on all kinds of tangents exploring my capabilities. Pretty much all classmates that weren't my friends drove me nuts though.

8th grade - Went to the Junior High there in Liberty. There were several awesome teachers... I was also put in a class called "Critical thinking" that really pushed my limits on how I approached thinking (it had been memorization and looking for shorter ways to the same result until this class). I have fond memories of what I started developing in that grade (ended up teaching myself Algebra the last month so I could take the final a week early and go on vacation with my parents). I loved most of the subject material I had to go through (except Health), but most of the time it was the class/teacher slowing me down.

9th through 11th - Just before classes started, I transferred to a private non-denomination school using the ACE curriculum. Most of it was as easy as public school (which is why I did 2 1/2 years of straight A work in one year). It felt so good to finally get out and see how fast I could learn and develop. The ACE curriculum has problems in the highest HS maths... with the biggest problem being no calculus class. I was also ahead of my teachers in math... I was only the second student to actually get further than 1/5 through the Geometry course (and the first one didn't know what she was doing... I was helping her out by my second month), so I taught myself Geometry, Algebra II, and College Math (like a Discrete Math/Logic class).

SENIOR year - Self-homeschooled myself through the private school. Just in case you're wondering parents, DON'T let your kid try to talk you into this, no matter how bright and motivated they are. If your kid is going to be homeschooled then you had better be home with them because they'll pretty much do nothing for most of the day (I developed a keen attraction for the finer things of life... such as non-legal software downloading http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif). I did discover my ability to pull all-nighters to get work done and successfully completed two parental mandates to get a great deal of work done in order not to have to go back to the private school.

-----I know you're bored; skip here http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif-----

I really didn't want to leave private school, but once I finally got some friends in the 5th grade (and immediately picked a few up after I moved), I was fine with public school. However, after knowing how fast I could go, how many roadblocks were being held in front of me to slow me down, and how the students were targeting me because I didn't give a rip whether I was "cool" or not... I just cared about doing well, I decided that I was sick of public school. When my parents approached me about going to another private school, I took a look and loved the thought. I convinced them it's what they should do even though it was a mere 2 weeks before classes started. The rest is history.

Looking back, I won't stand here and say private school is what's best for everyone... because it probably isn't (even if it were the same price as public school (and public school ISN'T free)). The school I graduated from DEPENDED on student self-motivation and MANY students weren't motivated like that (although most of them were also kicked out of public schools and/or other private schools -- I didn't realize when I started I was coming to a reform school of sorts).

Education and the desire for knowledge has to be developed and fostered early on. If students don't have that by Junior High, then odds are, it's too late. And few parents and elementary schools understand that and make the dream a reality.

This all made it easier for me in college... I was already way ahead of the most advanced public school students in every subject except Math (got a 35 in Science, 33 in English, but only a 26 in Math on the ACT... my junior year of HS), and I also had the knowledge and understanding of how to learn any subject on my own.

Would you believe I never had a single computer class of any sort before enrolling at Evangel (ok, there was this one that took me a month to do as a Sophomore and I almost rewrote it to update it. It was a course in computer history, basically http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif)? Yet, by the time I graduated from HS, I had built several machines, upgraded many others, and I knew DOS, Windows 3.1, and Windows 95 inside and out. And it's not like I had a dad (as say an Anand) that knew anything about computers. By the time I was 12, I knew more of anything (except Lotus 1-2-3.. his program) about computers than anyone I knew around me.

So that's my primary education in a nutshell. I know you don't want to read it (and you probably didn't http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif). However, I think an important thing in truly understanding anyone is knowing their educational background. So now you know. And I think you can see why I have a fairly unique perspective on this entire discussion. If it's out there, I've probably tried it. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif

[Joel Kleppinger]

ok, so that was a LOT more detailed. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[chipbgt]

Joel is so silly http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif

I was in public school growing up and luckily went to one fo the better high schools in my state. But looking back I realized how much I would have benefited more if I had been placed in a private school like my parents wanted to. Private schools will destroy almost any public school IMHO. The only thing I would have missed from a public school are all the friends I made and still have.

[This message has been edited by chipbgt (edited 08-19-2000).]

[Warthog]

Yikes. Joel, looks like you had quite an experience.

Warthog

[akaBruno]

http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif heheheh

Thanks Joel. I did read the other post, and that's the reason I posted this one. I knew that you had a lot to add. I hope more people do.

I'm still trying to find out where Iowa ranks these days in public ed. We believe in public education here and take pride in it. Both the GOP and Demos are pushing hard here to make our state #1 again.

Bruno



[This message has been edited by akaBruno (edited 08-19-2000).]

[tonym]

I went to Catholic parochial school from pre-K to 12th grade. Nuns until grade 8 then brothers until grade 12.

My best memory of the experience was the discipline. It wasn't a goose-stepping, mindless type of discipling. Just the kind that had the undertone that if you get out of line, you'll get a slap upside the head (and another when you get home!). I personally learned a lot...I was #3 in my class in high school and I don't think I would have been #100 if I had gone to the local public schools due to distractions and the quality of the education. It would have been a de-motivator for me!

My brother went to public HS, and he turned out, well, wasted. So did several of my friends that went parochial until G8, but then went to public HS. They said it was a joke...idiots disrupting classes, drugs, dangerous cliques, etc. Most didn't get the urge or attain the grades (due to the numerous "distractions") to go on to college, and that's a **** shame.

And I don't think that the state of affairs in public school can be blamed on teachers. We, collectively as a society, are to blame. We send a *generally* inferior product to school, allow them to run wild and free with NO consequences, and then expect "education" to stick to them like velcro. It does stick to those kids that are bright and/or motivated, but they do the work and study and question and flourish. The kids that post here at SysOpt are an excellent example of this (although I'm not sure of their school attendance -- public or private). But in public school their peers make it trememdously hard to concentrate and learn by promoting an amusement park atmosphere in class.

I mentor and tutor a lot of kids (my wife was a teacher and now a librarian -- she meets a lot of kids that just need a small amount of help/encouragement to help them get concepts straight or to work out rough spots and she "volunteers me!!), and their #1 complaint is the deportment of their peers. Unruly, dispruptive kids get 75% of the attention leaving the rest to swim on their own or sink through no fault of their own.

In short, I believe that:

Private schools = discipline = more varied curriculum = better graduates.

Public schools = disruptions = political football = inconsistent graduates.

I'm not saying for one minute that many, many fine kids with brilliant minds don't come up throughand graduate from public schools. They do: I know and have hired many! It's just that I fear we lose a lot of kids along the way and possibly cheat them out of a better future.

Tony

And without competition (vouchers), improved discipline, and greater parental responsibility we will get more of the same in the future...

Tony

[Szech]

K-12 was all public for me. Here's where I went, and what I got out of it.

K-6: President Ave. Elementary. This is where I learned my ABC's, started writing poems, had my first crush http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif, perfected the sport of handball (kneel before my slicee cross country!), was declared gifted (99th percentile), scrapped with a friend and his brother each morning, and my teachers told me that I can do and be anything.

7-9: Fleming Jr. High (now middle school). Life was a kick in the crotch. My family was always fighting, I hadn't had my first growth spurt yet and was a head shorter than everyone else. I had my first (but not last) scuffle with chollos, and I learned how unfair the world can be thanks to a select few teachers who taught me my place in being a minority. Two of my close friends disappeared (one overnight). I was depressed, and became weird. As a result, no girls were interesed in me http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/frown.gif... adding to my grief.

10-12: Narbonne High School. Decided that since I was going to a new school, I should try to shake off the **** that accumulated on me in Jr. High. My voice dropped a week before class started, which was a relief, because I couldn't stand the sound of my own voice before. I had some inspirational teachers who helped bring out my talents, I learned what drugs do to people, I learned that justice fails, I started breaking, I started going out with girls (yes!), and I learned how superficial they can be.

And I'm currently attending U.C.I. (Whew)

[GroundZero3]

Went to a catholic school in 6th grade and got taken out before i got kicked out. (which im not proud of) i went to public schools mostly. hawaii have some of the worst public schools. don't get me wrong some of the teachers were great but there was alot who didn't give a ****. i got A's just for showing up and not speaking out of turn. now im here in virginia just finished my 11th and that was a b!tch! since i was so far behind in math i was trying to take Algebra 2 when i haven't really learned Algebra 1. So i had to go to Slyan learning school which brought be from a F to a B. I had a really good tutor. I passed thank god

SYLVAN LEARNING CENTER WORKED FOR ME!!!

oops wrong commerical

JaYsin

[Imperion1]

Went to public schools from K-12.
K-1 went to school in Italy. (Airforce Brat)
Grade 2 first half in Maryland second half in Alabama.
Grades 3-12 spent all this in Oklahoma. (Where I'm back after four years in the USAF)
Still miss Arizona. Had a lot of great places to go.
Heck it had a Frys Electronics. Here in Ok, the closest one is in Dallas. We just have the Best Buy, CompUSA, Circuit **ity, Office Depot, still haven't been to Staples.
Oops, changed subject, sorry guys.

[BBA]

Well, I really liked the girls in the Catholic school in St. Augustine Fl much better than the normal publioc schoolgirl ( The private catholic school girls had flirtatious reputations that were well verified by many a youthful stud...) http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

ANyway, public schools are too 'unionized' to be effective. I blame this on the attitudes of the 'Flower Children' of the 60-70's.

[ Extreme example ]
I mean, if a teacher even tries to instill any discipline, they get sued by an ignorant parent who knows best how to raise their pregnant 14 year old with no discipline
[/Extreme example ]

I'm sorry, but the public school teachers have their hands tied too much to be effective teachers in any subject ( except they seem to be overly proficient in identifying those students who need mind altering substances to be controlled without discipline ).

If you see a pattern developing here in my opinion...your right.

Because of the many political and legal restrictions imposed on our education system by the federal government, I just do not believe that public schools are capable of providing the discipline and motivation children need. I say send them to private schools if you can afford it!

[bdunn]

I attended public school through the 8th grade, a private jewish high school, and then a state university.

I send my kids to a private jewish grade school because they won't get what I want them to in public school and I am not able to home school as i have to work for a living.

[ablang]

Thankfully, I went to a public school all my life. I don't think I could stand wearing a white shirt, black tie, and black pants all the time. That, and I have the conception (mis?) that private schools are so uptight and formal.

[BBA]

ablang...believe it or not, the outfit's actually reduce class envy and 'cool' envy. This tends to promote cooperation between more students of different backgrounds/ interest.

So, if the biggest complaint you have is "white shirt black tie..." Then you just reinforced the need to get kids out of public schools!

BTW: Does anyone here ever wonder why Gore wants public schools? Neither he nor his children ever attended a public school...so again, he is not qualified to rule public schools as better!

What a hypocrit!

[Joel Kleppinger]

Well, I had to wear a uniform kindergarten through 3rd, but not after that in any situation. I certainly was annoyed by the uniform (including clip-on tie), and one reservation I felt about going back to a private school was that I didn't want to quit wearing my shorts and T-shirts. During my life, I've developed a real affinity for wearing shorts and a Tee at all times, even the winter.

Thankfully, at the private school I graduated from, there was no dress code other than to be modest (defined by length of shorts / no tanktops) and avoid vulgarity. I enjoyed and appreciated that freedom.

While at the private high school, I played competitive basketball against other private high schools in the 3 state area. Most of them did not require uniforms either, although one school required that we wear sweat pants when playing them at their gym. That's a pretty heavy conservative stance... too much so for me.