Watch Out For This Guy! Got Me On This Forum.

[Opticlear]

This DBROWN17 has strung me along for a month now. He's been "snowed in", or "didn't have a computer to use because yours is boxed up and ready to ship". He will not reply to emails and has only replied a total of three times since he received my money a month ago saying it would be sent and thanks for my patience. Now no matter what you send to him he will not respond.

His name is Dave Brown. I have his address and I believe his phone number. I called and the guy was saying I had the wrong Dave Brown before I hardly had two words out of my mouth. The address; zipcode and all; match perfectly to the one he gave me, in the listing for the number. What can I do to this guy legally? Anyone know? And yes I know I should have checked him out better.

[Mntsnow]

Let him know you are contacting his local authorities and your lawyer. As you are going to proceed with legal action if he doesnt either refund your money IMMEDIATELY or doesnt ship your products IMMEDIATELY. Also send him a "snail mail" letter stating the above information WITH DELIVERY CONFERMATION (You will need PROOF in court that HE did receive notification!) Make sure you have PROOF that he received your money (your money order reciept/cancelled check) How much money is involved? As the amount will also determine what type of fraud charges can be filed against him.

Mntsnow

[socalgal]

Really sorry to hear this, Opticlear. From the other thread (DBROWN17's) it's indeed a substantial amount of money. Check with the Post Office too, it's possibly also mail fraud.

Also, please report this on HeatWare (http://heatware.elitehardware.com/) so others don't get burned.

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 03-06-2000).]

[Opticlear]

I have sent him emails stating that I am going to get the authorities involved, which he replied to saying he'd been snowed in (two weeks). In his reply my message to him was intact, so that's proof he received the message. Also I have emails from him stating he had my money ($325) and would send me my merchandise as agreed.
What I an unsure of is what authorities do I contact? My state or his state? Or maybe federal?
I hope this freaks him out and he sends me the goods as promised, but I won't believe it until I see it and 'til then I'm going to play it like it's never coming.
I hope noone else has this kind of luck, thanks for the replies!

[pxiz]

Contact his local authorities and report his *****. then contact the post office and try to nail em on mail fraud.

[socalgal]

Ok, per my post here

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/Forum13/HTML/000437.html

[bdog]

I just sent him an email telling him that mail fraud is a felony and that he is looking at some time behind bars, and I hope that the $325 was worth it. I can't stand people that do this. I hope he will like his cell mate bubba.

[JW310]

I read in a thread over on AnandTech's For Sale/Trade forum that for mail fraud over state lines, it must involve amounts/values greater than $100. So your $325 is enough to charge the guy with the felony of mail fraud. As long as you have enough to substantiate your case against him, you should have no problems with charging him with mail fraud.

JW

[2336]

Opticlear, I had a situation similar to this about a month ago. I contacted the office of the City Attorney's office with info, I also filed reports with the BBB, the FTC and was one step away from filing a mail fraud report when the gentleman made good on the deal. Depending on the laws in his state he might be looking at wire and computer fraud charges as well. Either way he's looking at a felony conviction with some time served more than likely (well hello Bubba!). If he's real stubborn, in addition to contacting his local authorities you might consider contacting that state's attorney general and possibly the FBI field office near your town as well as his! If he's being this big of a jerk he deserves the royal treatment! Do him up right!!!

RGR

[Ed_S]

Opticlear, another form of proof is the cashed payment. He CANNOT deny reciept of it if you can show proof he cashed it!
I saw that it was an M.O., was it from the post office? If so, the P.O. should be able to help with this.

Contact the prosecuting attorney's office at both your and his local city halls for advise on how to proceed. Have had to do this before on other matters & have found them helpful.

Ed

[MR COMPUTER]

Opticlear.You can post this info on my board if you wish. I also have an incomplete deal with a member of this board. I'll give him til wednesday before I post. Shame we have to deal with people like this. Hurts the honest folks trying to do biz here. Mr.C

[oblivion]

Good luck trying to prosecute him,if you wrote him a check or have the MO reciept you could hopefully prove it in court........but you would have to go to his state for many court dates...it wouldnt be mail fraud unless
you could prove it was intentional....it would be a civil matter unless you can prove that he was tying to stone cold rip you off,hell he could say that he could say anything to make it look unintentional...


Go to his house if it isnt too far away..
I would..but definitly try to call his local autherities and the local post office,as well as the head post office branch in his district...you could always say he told you he never planned on shipping it to you,it may be a falisy,but it may be the only way you could make it a criminal matter.

[succubiss]

I (unfortunately) had experience with this kinda thing twice before, one ongoing.

Snail mail with Return Receipt! Make copies of correspondence, print all your emails, document everything. Start a file, and make your case crystal clear for the postal inspector/ local authorities.

tragic, i tell ya...

[bdog]

Why don't you post the city he lives in(No full address). Then if one of us lives nearby we could email and get more info. Then we might could help you out by paying a visit to the local authorities for you. They tend to be more willing to do something when someone is standing in front of their desk.

[Ed_S]

Just thought of something else. You've probably already done this, but if not, then print out the original topic AND his profile!!
I don't know if a locked thread can be edited or not, but his profile CAN be for sure!

Another idea - contact his ISP. He has involved them by using their service to commit this fraud.



[This message has been edited by Ed_S (edited 03-05-2000).]

[plucky duck]

For some reason, this has become more common than ever, and that only makes us traders very weary.

All I can say is "Caveat Emptor" - buyer beware.

Those who get ripped off should take action so that these fraudulent people know that they can't get away with anything, no matter how far or how anonymous they may be.

Plucky

[daveleau]

That's too bad Opticlear. I agree with contacting the local authorities. Also post about this at the other forums (anandtech, agn, ars, host, MrC etc) and get the word out. Mail fraud is a definate possibility and he could become a fellon b/c of this if he doesn't fix it. Good luck
Dave

[socalgal]

Good point, Ed S. The posts in a locked thread cannot be edited.

I've already saved and printed out DBROWN17's Profile, so if you still need it, Opticlear, just email me.

[Opticlear]

Thanks for all the ideas and support. I'll post results as soon as possible. Mr.C what is your url? I will post.

[This message has been edited by Opticlear (edited 03-06-2000).]

[Gene C.]

Opticlear,
I'm very sorry to hear about your tradeing problem. Not, to bring up the past. But, if you will do a search on the bbs board's for post in my name and also at heat. you will find out how to handle a problem like this. and believe me my method works everytime. and also, if you can't get this resolved with him. and you think you are going to lose the money. and you are going to have some time off. and he is close by you. you might want to check on a low cost airfare. and don't forget to carry bail money. this is only my opinion and the kinda person that I am. if there is anything I can do to help. let me know.
Gene C.

[Gene C.]

it get's them everytime. and I also forgot to mention. I save and keep every e-mail and bbs post of every deal I do. on hard printouts. my main drive and a seperate backup drive just for the purpose. so there is never a question about the deal or what was said. also, I always use the same e-mail "between myself and them" to corospond with. also I learned from rideing with the law and working with u.s. customs f/ almost 6.5 years. there are ways to find out things. and don't be afraid to send him pictures of where he lives, houses beside him. neboghors address around his house ect. mail faurd, his local police, his newspaper , where he works, the credit bureo ect. if you know where to look. you can find out the last book he checked out. so let me know if you need something. I hate scumbags like this. and also have him post his actions of the deal here to cover himself. it's not the money " I know it is" it's the point. dose the man live in fl.? I'm home 24/7 hrs. a day. and I got nothing to do. and I would enjoy it to. he he ha ha

[daveleau]

Just as a side note, while it may be very self-satisfying, don't got o his house or he can possibly have grounds for charges himself. What you are doing/ have done will hopefully take care of it. I hope he did ship.
Dave

[Opticlear]

Well I just got off the phone with this guy, and this time I know it was the right guy because he acknowledged it. He also told me that it shipped this morning and that the shipping was $10.30. He said he received no tracking # or receipt and that he sent it regular snail mail, no special carriers.
He also offered to send me a free hard drive-I suppose to compensate for the lateness and my anxiety. I was shocked. Maybe he never meant to cheat me, but was just lazy and slow.

Now I don't know if this is true or just another delay tactic, but I believe his sudden change whether genuine or not, was brought on by all the support and replies I received on the matter at this board. So I owe you all a very big thank you. I'm closer to a resolution. I'm giving him seven days from this one, and no more. Then it's the Gene C. approach.
Thank You

[This message has been edited by Opticlear (edited 03-06-2000).]

[Opticlear]

Yeah, I hope he shipped too. Sorry Gene, but he's a New Jersean, or is that New Jerseyite.

[Richard_Cranium72]

I'll skip my usual Pseudo-Legal mumbo-jumbo. This is a link with an excerpt for the sake of brevity.. DrVette =>>United States
Postal Inspection Service

Mail Fraud and Misrepresentation
Title 18, United States Code
Section 1341. Frauds and swindles=>> Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or attempting to do so in any post office , or delivered by the Postal Service,,shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $ 1,000,000.00 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both. =>> http://www.usps.gov/websites/depart/inspect/usc18/ , now see Socal, my sixfth ghrade edumcatioun iz payin ouff, / http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[gjwilson]

Opticlear...even though he said he shipped don`t go soft on him just yet. I`m an avid eBay buyer/seller and the line " received no tracking # or receipt" clears him of all resposibility if your package should just coveniently get "lost" by the mail service. He can claim to have shipped but can`t find it and,in turn,does not have to return your money.He`s passing the buck to the mail service. Sorry...I`m forever the pesimist. Gary

[Zotzmein]

I agree with gjwilson. Is inexpensive as tracking costs, it’s unfathomable to me that any trader wouldn’t elect the security of this option. It makes good business sense to utilize a neutral/third party source to give a measure of guarantee, not to mention validity to the transaction.

It not only gives you a feeling of security but also provides you with stronger evidence when you go to authorities concerning mail fraud. Whenever I mail a payment, it’s made via US postal money order, with it clearly written in the memo the monies intent. Then mailed with tracking.

Warmest Regards,

Zotz Mein

[bdog]

I sent this guy an email to warn him of his future if he ripped you off. He replied and said he would send the money back. He needs your address.

from email he sent to me:

Hello,
I am sending you the 325.00 back.
Please email me your address.

Do you have a different name i dont recognize this one.

>From:
>To:
>Subject: you are going down
>Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 13:45:28 -0600
>
>Mail fraud is a FELONY. Expect to spend some time behind bars. I hope the
>$325 was worth it.

__________________________________________________ ____
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


[This message has been edited by bdog (edited 03-09-2000).]

[jad1097]

How did he send it out if he did not have the address?
I feel that Genes solution is the way I would handle it. But then again I would not deal with a Junior Member with no referances. Also I would just pop up and not give this person any type of warning like pics.

[Ed_S]

Opticlear, I saw bdog's post last night & something bugged me, just couldn't put my finger on it...
Think this guy's gonna be a real problem because:
bdog mailed him & he answered THAT mail with an offer of a refund to bdog!!

Does he know who he "sold" this too? Or is he just giving stock answers to any emails????

Hopefully, I'm seeing it wrong, but thought I'd better point that out!!

Ed

<edit> Reread this & thought that it could be misinterpreted. I am NOT insinuating that bdog did anything wrong, rather that the answer he recieved is wrong!
Ed

[This message has been edited by Ed_S (edited 03-10-2000).]

[AuraEdge]

Im a New Jerseyian....
Ill pay em a visit if you want me to...hehe

[barry glisson]

possibly he burned so many people he doesnt remember who he burned. they just arrested a guy over around cocoa for fraud on ebay of over $6 million.barry

[Gene C.]

this topic is getting to me. and so as you all know me and my outlook on things. I have decided to e-mail our little friend. here is a copy of the e-mail I sent to him. and I would like to "STATE" this board or any board members had nothing to do with me doing this.

mailed on Sat.3/11/00 at 8:27 eastern time.

DBROWN17,
It has come to my attention that you are a scumbag of a trader. And you are trying to or have ripped off one of my sysopt family brothers. I would suggest you try and resolve this matter. I have talked with my lawyer about this. And know my rights on how far I can go. If you would like me to start contacting people and such. Local isp,credit agency,better business,local police ,court house and postmaster. To maybe stop you from the life of crime you have chosen here or to help you from being brought up on federal charges. I’m in now way involved in this deal. And will not receive any profit from it. And if you would like to show a copy of this to your lawyer. And start something with me. I’m more than welcome and waiting. And you might want to read this. While you are depositing the federal moneyorders you have taken.
http://www.ftc.gov/ftc/knowfraudcomplaint.htm http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/press/warco.htm http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/877alrt.htm http://www.parsippany.bbb.org/

Inspector General's Fraud Hotline
202-708-4200
Toll free outside DC: 1-800-347-3735
TDD toll free: 1-800-304-9597

Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
Department of Justice
935 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20535
202-324-3000
Fax: 202-324-4705

You take care and have a nice weekend. And I pray to God and wish it was me that you ripped off. If you or your lawyer need any info from me. Home address,phone numbers ect. Just shoot me a e-mail. And if you can’t get to a computer system. You can always rip someones else off. I see your very good at that.
Gene C.

[Ed_S]

Been 5 days since he told Opticlear it was shipped, what's happened??

Opticlear, we need to hear from you!

[Richard_Cranium72]

enough already, I wiped my post clean

[This message has been edited by Richard_Cranium72 (edited 03-13-2000).]

[Gene C.]

I think that if the scumbag, will read some of my post. he will know I'm not playing with him. but, I waiting for Opticlear
to do his thing. I'm just a bystanded. that gets a bad taste in my mouth. when I see something like this. and I will also have to check with my lawyer monday and see how to handle it. But, I need some info on the person. to do a little reasearch. he has not returned my e-mail yet. maybe he is just a scared little punk. and you all know what I mean by the word punk. I have set the ball in motion with him. it is up to him if he wants to play with me. I also have to be carefull what I say and do. I don't want him crying and saying I threatened him in anyway. I'm just makeing promises I will keep. for if he messes with me. I always ready for it. I have a good lawyer, a bondsman that works out of state, and bail money. so, I'll just put it on the back burner for now. until I hear something or get some info on the scumbag.

[pickel]

Do I need to pack a lunch or we going to the truck stop on the way. Got my Camo's and night-vision's ready to got!!! Been doing enough computin' this week need some outdorr activity.
Man , this really sucks!!! Hey , Gene.. doesn't schitt like this give ya burning that only a _ss whippin' could relieve. Keep me posted, I got your back.

the pickel

[Opticlear]

Sorry for being slow here, been working a lot of hours lately and I've just been waiting on the system to arrive and so far it hasn't. That really shocked me about his offer of a refund to bdog! I give up! Now I'm going to have to take action I'm tired of false assurances from this guy.
I really believed it was coming this time.
I'm going to email him and call him again, but that's not all I'm going to do. I'm gonna get this legal ball rolling, because that's all that I think will work at this point. Thanks for the efforts on my part to everyone.


Been looking over the board and re-reading the posts on this subject since I was here last. I noticed a few things I had missed, and one was a request to post his whereabouts so here it is:
That's all I know. Now I'm going to email him for the hundredth time and provide my address for the fiftieth, just in case he really did lose it again and is scared enough to send me the money back as his post to bdog suggests.
The reason I was gone so long is that I thought the matter was actually settled, but its clearly not. Especially indicative is his post to bdog. I also am interested in a ride in that SS to the Brown residence. It may just come to that, and it's getting closer all the time.

[This message has been edited by Opticlear (edited 03-12-2000).]

[This message has been edited by SysOpt (edited 03-12-2000).]

[Ed_S]

OPTICLEAR - THAT'S A BAD IDEA TO POST THAT!!!

Especially at this point in your dealings!

This is a totally public forum, and ANY loose screw could get involved that way! I don't mean the folks that have posted, but what about anybody out there lurking???
Just email the info to Gene, he knows the ropes on this better!

Man, somebody could go there claiming to be you and cause YOU tons of grieve!!



[This message has been edited by Ed_S (edited 03-12-2000).]

[SysOpt]

Opticlear: Do not post contact information for any individual on this board. If you do it again I will ban you. I totally sympathize with you but that's not the best way to go about it. Please do yourself a favor and pursue the situation with local law enforcement and/or a competent attorney.

[This message has been edited by SysOpt (edited 03-13-2000).]

[jad1097]

After you pick up Pickel just stop by and pick me up.


I feel this guy thinks that Gene is not serious and will just ignore this.
It is a shame it has come to this point. I wonder how many people he sold this to. If anything at least KARMA will get him.

[Snuffy!]

Maybe i'm wrong, but I reckon he meant to rip someone off, cause that add he posted was his first post, and he was a junior member.

[Opticlear]

Sorry for the post of contact info, Sysopt. Won't happen again under any circumstance. After I thought it was all settled and then found it wasn't anger got my judgement.

[alpha]

Sorry to here it man!

[barry glisson]

perhaps we could post to all the other bbs with the info as to what he was selling and his home town only we could determine how many people he has ripped off. if it is enough the fbi could be called in for a violation of the ricco act. he will do hard time in the fed pen,loose every thing he owns and there is no good time or gain time in the fed slammer only bubba and his friends. barry

[Snuffy!]

Heh, whats this thing about bubba? U mean the guy from Forest Gump?

[barry glisson]

wrong bubba twice as big three times as ugly and horny as heck. barry

[jadison]

I truly do sympathize, this just adds on to the reason why I don't do any transactions online, esp this trading...which has limited gurantees and a good chance of going bad. I rarely buy stuff online w/Credit Card. I'm not sure if I should even try Ebay, I have an original Rembrandt etching worth well over $10,000...and am thinking about putting it on EBay. we;ll see

Again I'm sorry for what happenned, it just makes all the rest of us much more weary who were dealing with w/ online transactions.

Good Luck, I hope he gets what he deserves!!

jadison

[Opticlear]

Thanks for all the replies and support, I'll post progress and developments. In the meantime I'll just kickback and relax, and let the wheels of justice turn- I just hope I don't get ran over.

[pickel]

Opticlear...If the wheels need a little grease ...Let me know....

[bdog]

Opticlear, I have been out of town. I was going to email the info from this guy to you, but you have no email address listed. I think you understand what he is doing, but if you have any questions about his correspondence with me, feel free to email me at brandon@odsy.net. I hope this gets worked out for you.

[HomerJSimpson]

Why don't you just put this guys real name and address up on the bulletin board? Why is everyone so fearful about this? Hi, My name is Raven Stands Alone, I live at 1288 Hamilton St.-Jacksonville, Florida 32205. My phone number is 904-379-1992- Y'all can walk right up and knock on my door. If anyone ever asks for my number you can give it to them. I hide from no man or woman. Get a grip on your little fears and act like a man!

[This message has been edited by HomerJSimpson (edited 03-16-2000).]

[Joel Kleppinger]

Because it isn't real bright proclaiming such info for the world to see. Some people don't bother knocking on the front door.... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif If you have that much info about someone, it isn't hard to get quite a bit more - and/or make their life quite miserable.

It's just private information that doesn't need to be passed around. (Obviously, you don't care though so best of luck to ya).

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm 53, have an IQ of 175, 5'9", 210lbs., I' ve crossed the U.S. 26 times on a bicycle, been shot twice, stabbed 7 times, poisoned once, fallen from 300 feet and still walk,talk and ride. You dont need to live in a world of fear. Those who fear death are the ones that die early. You can catch me any given year at the Florida Folk Festival on the main stage on Memorial Day Weekend.
I'm not stupid, or a weenie! Oh yeah, I didn't suggest that you put your name up here, only the name of the ripoff artist. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif
For that matter, let us not forget that we are connected by these computers. I can find your name, phone number, social security and the name of the Doctor's children that delivered your kid!

[This message has been edited by HomerJSimpson (edited 03-16-2000).]

[This message has been edited by HomerJSimpson (edited 03-16-2000).]

[Gene C.]

MY GOD, I've been cloned. except I'll be 46 this monday, a little over 6' 2" and I carry some where around 217 pounds. I like your outlook on life. but, you didn't mention your arrest records."and please don't" I know I got you beat there. and yes, as stated. you can find anything you want. if you have the tools and the know how.
Gene C.

[HomerJSimpson]

DOH! And, not since I was a young adult. But, yes. Of course, and I've got more toys too. And, that still doesn't answer my question. Why not just put his name and particulars up? Why not? If he's done no wrong, he has nothing to fear but his creator. Further, I have no real interest in your personals, you haven't done nuttin'. Have ya? http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by HomerJSimpson (edited 03-16-2000).]

[Mntsnow]

Well as it is YOUR choice to post YOUR infomation on the www thats fine. But I can promise you if YOU were to place MY information WITHOUT MY permission their would be trouble and the law would be involved! (and no this is not a dare!) as I prefer to choose WHO gets my PERSONAL information and it is NOT UP TO YOU or anyone else to make it known to others!

As I see it...Scott and the owners of SysOpt do not want or need to become involved in any kind of lawsuit that could be started from the posting of PRIVATE information in a Open forum such as this.

Mntsnow

[This message has been edited by Mntsnow (edited 03-16-2000).]

[HomerJSimpson]

So, ah, what's your name weenie?

[socalgal]

Homer:

If you cannot post in this, or any other forum with a degree of maturity and respect to others and in line with the policies of SysOpt, I highly suggest you take your "IQ" elsewhere.

There is NO DISCUSSION about it, the policy has been spelled out more than a few times here in just this thread!

And, your childish antics as such will not be tolerated here!

[SysOpt]

Homer:

You've been asked to play nice. Please oblige. Thanks.

[HomerJSimpson]

Eesh! Okay, okay..............(where'd I leave them donuts?)

[Ed_S]

I can give one excellent reason not to post personal info.

Scott asked that we don't

Respect fot Scott and Sysopt.com should be enough by itself. Mine is no secret either. My email is my name, the home city is in my profile, and I'm in the book!

[plucky duck]

HomerJSimpson - don't push your luck buddy 'cause you ain't got much left.

Please do try to respect other fellow members. Don't come in here and act like a jackass.

You certainly don't deserve my respect.

As for Opticlear, good luck in your battle. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Plucky

[Gene C.]

Food for thought http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2469409,00.html?chkpt=zdnn031700

[Snuffy!]

This is probably a stupid suggestion, cause i'm not very bright *sniff*, but why don't you just phone up the police in his area and tell them your story? Say to them that you'll send them proof of the transaction through fax if they want, and get them to act on it. Give the police the address of the guy and stuff, and if they are convinced, they might head down to his house and give him hell.

And before you say this is a stupid suggestion, keep in mind that I know nothing about nothing http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Good luck with yer hunt http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Snuffy

[Opticlear]

Hey everybody! I have called the New Jersey state police and they have a special department just for this kind of thing. All the wrinkles will be ironed out of this situation soon. I just hope I end up with the computer, I think it was a pretty good deal. I talked Dbrown17's "father" supposedly and he swears that he was with his son when he mailed it out, but time is running out according to that story. The NJ state boys will probably come knocking soon.

[jad1097]

A very intresting artical Gene.

[Snuffy!]

Hey dude, thats good news, i'm glad you've found a solution to yer problem http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Personally, I hope they nail that scumbag, but if yer get yer comp, that'll also be good http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif Good luck with it all.

Snuffy!

[Smokey]

That's great news Opticlear, I hope you get your computer in all of this too!