Are computer games dead?

[Dputiger]

I don't know how many people in here are gamers, but if you are, what do you think?

[Warthog]

How did you arrive at this conclusion????

I'm a gamer and don't think pc games are dead whatsoever. Do you think that because of all the new console systems coming out?

You should check this thread out to see what most of the pc gaming community thinks of console game systems: http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/000841.html

Warthog

[Dputiger]

It's not just me. I've read similar ideas from Dailyradar and PC Gamer. I LOVE computer games, but with the death of Looking Glass, etc, a lot of people are jittery.

[zskillz]

hahah..... sorry bro, but it'll never end.

there are so many reasons why it won't, but one of the simplest one is the simplicity of the mouse/keyboard setup. It is far better suited for many games (the most popular ones if u ask me) than a controller will ever be.

for a true gamer, the customizability of a game that you are capable of with a computer so far outweighs that of a console that it will never happen. ever!

tell u what though. if it ever actually does happen, it'll only be because VR is so advanced that computers for gaming are practically obsolete

sorry
-Z

[FrozenLiquidity]

LOL http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Hardly!

FrozenLiquidity

[BBA]

Hmmm...PC games are alive and well. Looking Glass was in my opinion not a major player in PC games of the last few years...thats why they died.

As for gaming quality and screen size...You can run your PC into many new big screen HD tv's for monster graphics...I see up to 1900x1024 HDTV's...( $10G's though...) with svga connetors and digital connectors.

Or you can get a Epson projector ( $3G's )(1024x768) and project a huge Q3 screen! And those things are razor sharp pictures.


Well, I don't think console games will match that anytime soon.

Now...PC games have so many more control options and such...unless console games come out with mouses and keyboards...they just cant compare!

[rrick31]

i am,waiting for dtr next release in aug.should have been may.

GO FAST TURN LEFT

[wtp]

i don't think so, each time i see one released. It's WAY better, and very 3D.

wtp

eg. Half Life is old, but ALIVE, Starcraft too!

[Dputiger]

Well, let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment, here: Believe me, I'm a die-hard computer gamer--so I'm on everyone's side. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

1) Computer game sales are slipping.

This is not an idea of mine, it's a fact. Total industry sales are down something like forty percent.

2) It's been games like 'Deer Hunter' and 'Who Wants to Be a Millionaire' that've really captured the public's interest.

3) Designers are deserting the PC to work on consoles.

Now, I'm not going to argue the above--these points are all true. The impact of them, however, is the debatable factor. Personally, I think the PC Games market is headed for collapse--and I couldn't be happier. Here's why:

In my opinion, today, the PC Gaming market is over-saturated. Cruise down any major software store and you'll see shelf after shelf devoted to PC Games. Each one has a brightly colored box, tons of screenshots PROMISING a fabulous game, and is filled with ludicrous marketing copy advertising impossible 'minimum specs.'

I've been a gamer for around fifteen years. Amazing as it sounds, I remember a time when Wing Commander had no real competition and neither did Wolfenstein 3D. In fact, I remember when there were really only a few gaming companies anyone paid attention to, and the games shelf occupied about one section in a software store.

Games back then were far better crafted. The technology was primitive, but as a result the story HAD to be strong. Furthermore, companies didn't have the luxury of releasing buggy software. Sales were low to begin with, and a recall meant physically paying to ship thousands of copies back out. Who could afford that?

Today though, we have bloated budgets, bloated games, and lazy designers who leave obvious bugs in their code with the intent to patch later. Obviously there are times when a game is yanked from its designers to make a certain shipping date, but there are also PLENTY of times when its obvious a game was shoveled out the door and no one even waved good-bye.

As a result, I believe a lot of people (and programmers) are deserting PC's and moving to console gaming--where they don't have to worry about driver updates, patches, or as many bugs.

Personally, I think this is great. It will trim the PC Gaming market down to what it originally was--a group of core designers and gamers making good products that they themselves want to play. If you don't believe me, go boot up The Secret of Monkey Island (LucasArts) the original Space Quest (Sierra) and, of course, Civilization. Look past the dated graphics and sound, and you'll find a game that still delivers fun after fifteen years. A LOT of the games that came out of this era still do that. I personally think the original Doom will still be fun ten years from now--but I just can't imagine booting up Soldier of Fortune in a decade to relive the experience--and I liked the game.

[zskillz]

i understand what ur saying man, but I think that it's really not very accurate. giving a fact doesn't give the reason for why that fact is true. often times it's the reason that tells more of the story.

for example..
1) I think that gaming sales are down not because fewer people are playing the games, but instead because fewer people are actually purchasing the games. (I never bought quake, and I've had it forever)

2) Perhaps 'Deer Hunter', etc. has captured the general public's interest, but i totally disagree that the gaming public is focused on games like this. Q3A was anticipated for 8 months before id finally released it, and the interest never died. just run a copy of gamespy and u'll see the insane number of servers still supporting the game

3) I'm not even sure that this is true. if it is though, that doesn't tell you anything about the quality of the designers that are deserting the PC to work on consoles. it'll be a long time before guys like john carmack switch to console programming exclusively...


on the other hand though, i agree that the market is oversaturated, but I don't see that dying out anytime soon.

there are a lot of good ideas out there right now (look at the game soverign for ex.) even if you have to sift through 3 shelves of **** to get to them.

-Z

[bhess]

I feel too that there is too many titles out there. There is a lot of **** games in there. I burned out on games a while ago. There hasn't been too many new ideas out there.
I also wait until I read a review (not preview) on the game. I've gotten burned too many times. They ain't cheap either.
my .02 $

[Warthog]

Yes, Number 2 does represent the general public. At one point not too long ago, that Rollercoaster game (build your own theme park) was top selling. Also Age Of Empires has been in that slot several times.

Personally, I don't know a living soul who plays those type of games. BUT the people I know represent the true gaming community.

Warthog

[SysOpt]

I hadn't heard about Looking Glass.. That bites.. Flight Unlimited III was one of my favorite flight sims. Good AI, good ATC, graphics, flight model, etc. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/frown.gif

[Dputiger]

It might be better to say this: "Computer games aren't dead, but the conditions that allow great ones to be built and the designers that built them are shrinking."

I agree, there've been some great games come out in the past few years. Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, Half-Life, Age of Empires (and it's sequel), etc. No doubt about it.

But for every great game that came out and sold a hundred thousand copies there's five good games that didn't sell at all.

System Shock 2 was tremendously good. So were Freespace and Independence War. Thief and Thief II were pretty good, and so were Nox and Darkstone. But I don't think any of these games even sold 40,000 copies. Since the market is now controlled by big business in search of big money, the PC market is in trouble. Corporations aren't really interested in good games--they're interested in high-selling games. Origin is a perfect example. The company abandoned Wing Commander altogether and gutted the Ultima single-player experience.

Unfortunately...console games sell more.

Fortunately, there's still a few exceptions to the rule: Valve and ION Storm come to mind (seems that ION has been vindicated with the release of Deus Ex, which is getting great reviews). I'd like to see this trend reverse--but I'm not sure it will.

[skai]

Quote "fewer people are purchasing the games"
you are spot on zskillz!cdrw's are so cheap and so many people have them the industry must be spending mega $$$ on security .
the games are getting better so piracy must acount for some lower sales
cheers skai

[Inferior]

Dead?

It seems to me that it is just the opposite. Just look at all the games getting developed and even free gaming servers like MPLAYER and HEAT. Seems to me they are bigger than ever.

Computer games are probably the biggest reason why people upgrade their computers so often these days, to get more and more Frames Per Second!!!!! http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Inferior (edited 06-23-2000).]

[wtp]

i agree with Inferior, what's the purpose of designing vid cards for hardcore gaming if games are gonna just die out.

wtp

[Dputiger]

Actually, that's exactly my point. Computer games won't die out--but I think most of the INDUSTRY will collapse.

Most people, frankly, don't WANT to be hardcore gamers. They want simplicity. Ease of use.

There will always be a market for those of us who care about upgrades, drivers, and frames per second--but I think the average Joe Gamer just wants a pretty simple setup--and so far, the PC just hasn't been it. That's hard for us to see, because we speak the language of technology really well.

[cyclone2]

I think computer games will die off in the next 5- 10 years if Billy Gates get his way and I may even join the revolution. With the price of top end video cards going through the roof PCs are starting to get expensive to upgrade again. I could buy an X-box for not much more than the price of a new Voodoo or GF2 and not have to upgrade it for 3- 5 years and as a bonus the games would (should) not be buggy!
As a bonus I would not have to upgrade my computer for 5 years or more. With the addition of a mouse, keyboard, hard drive and NIC/modem the X-box will work with all games and you will play multiplayer also. The game manufactures all look at the consoles as higher sales, easier to make for and cheaper to make games( quicker too)
As with any platform you will have to filter the 1 good game out of 20 **** ones but thats what reviews are for http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[Warthog]

Yeah, but you know what?

While you're happy playing your X-Box for 3-5 years with the same level of graphics that you started off with, us PC Gamers will have MUCH better looking games. Why go for a cheap game fix when you can have more immersive gameplay and graphics with a computer? If you are a true gamer, you are a pc gamer.

Warthog

[Dputiger]

Oh come on Warthog--you don't really believe that do you? Historically, consoles were selling thousands of units long before PC Games were a blip on the map. Likewise, though I'll grant that its possible to do certain types of games on a PC that dont' lend themselves well to console games, I don't think the differences are set in stone. The two markets have blended significantly--they will continue too.

Finally, if you want to see a REALLY big difference between games, go pick up some early games that were released for the Playstation--preferably its launch titles. Then compare those games to the latest ones shipping today and you'll think your looking at games written for two completely different systems. The hardware didn't change--but the ability of the developers to effectively use the software did.

The truth is, there is not a PC on earth today that will be an effective gaming tool three years from now, much less the five that the current Playstation has lasted. If you went out and bought Alienware's 9,000 computer, three years from now you couldn't play top-of-the-line games on it.

Much as I hate to admit it, console games have proven that consumers don't need to spend thousands of dollars and tons of frustration to get a pleasurable gaming experience. There will always be a market for the hardcore gamer--but the hardcore gamer is not now and never will be the majority.

It's undoubtedly true that the PC will eventually surpass the Playstation 2 and upcoming X-Box in terms of graphical quality and speed. Still, given the choice between buying a system good for 3-4 years for $400 bucks or shucking out two grand every two years, I know which I'd pick. In fact, if I was anything BUT a hard core gamer I'd have abandoned computer games long ago.

[neo_otyugh]

i do not even really notice games too much...unless they are half-life mods. when i think of gaming i think of the 9,996,949 players on 144,664 servers being tracked by www.theclq.com (http://www.theclq.com) , admittedly that isn't a huge population, but those are just users that play online on servers that are tracked by the clq. and then consider taht the frag in dallas is giving away at least 100 grand in prizes for their quake tournament.
I would agree that the market is flooded, but the games that stand out are way above the rest. Half-life, quake (2 and 3), unreal tournament and a few others have been outsttandig successes. Out of the 25 or so techs at the ISP i am at, maybe 20 of em play games, and only 3 or 4 of us play online. the way i see it the market is flooded, and there will be some paring down of the industry, but no way will the industry shrink too much, i think games will just get better and better and the companies that can't compete will just die...

[Warthog]

Console: poor mans game system

This is boring me. I will never change my position on this subject and nor will you.

Warthog

[SysOpt]

As much as consoles have improved over the years, their games still lack depth. All that I have seen have a real arcade-ish feel to them. Personally, I prefer games that try to simulate reality. Know of any good flight sims for a console? Even first person shooters are better on a PC.

Bottom line is that a console cannot beat a top of the line PC for gaming, period. Add to that the fact that the PC is capable of so much more than just gaming, and the console makes even less sense.

Will that be true forever? Who knows. The PC may become less modular in the future, but the power and performance will continue to escalate, and games will scale up as well.

[This message has been edited by SysOpt (edited 06-25-2000).]

[Dputiger]

Actually, Sysopt, I agree with everything you've said. I think PC Gaming, though, is headed back for 'niche' status--similar to what it occupied when the original Nintendo was king.

The games the PC really shines at--flight sims, turn-based war games, etc--these will always be around in some form.

What'll help kill PC gaming as a MASS market (as opposed to a niche market) is if great PC games continue to get ported to consoles. Half-Life for the Dreamcast is a great example. It actually looks better, has new material, and can be played on a system that costs 1/10 what a PC does--on a big screen TV. The ONLY thing holding that game back is the issue of control.

If games like Unreal TOurnament, Quake III, and Half-Life get ported to consoles and sell ten times what they did on the PC (due to a bigger console market) sooner or later the big game designers will start releasing for the console first--and porting the game to PC only later (if at all). After all, the reason games don't get ported to the Macintosh isn't because Mac's can't run them--it's because the Macintosh install base is not generally seen as big enough to warrant the extra work it would take.

If a designer knows he can sell ten times as many games if he develops them for, say, the X-Box vs. the PC, the X-Box will get 90% of his business, time, and attention. The PC market will be left mostly where it started--with volunteers, low money, and a lot of love for gaming.

[Warthog]

Actually it's Scott, not Joel and the X-Box will not support PC peripherals, although it does have a USB port. Half-life came out two years ago, to my knowledge - of course the new Dreamcast version will be much improved.

Dputiger, you are right in that PC shines with war and flight sims, but it also has all of the top shooters. Are there any really good shooters for console? Perfect Dark just came out for N64. Too much like 007. I've played it. It doesn't bring anything new and inovative to the gaming community that hasn't already been done time and time again with the PC.

Warthog

[Dputiger]

Ahhh...Warthog, I think I may have been unclear--please allow me to clear up something.

It's obvious that the consoles released up to the present day have not broken the PC's unique hold on the gaming market. The Playstation and N64, though good systems in and of themselves, clearly don't hold a candle to today's PC's.

Future consoles, though, are set to erode some of the PC's unique capabilities, such as:

1) True Internet multiplayer gaming (vs. divided screen, which I hate).

2) Use of peripherals.

3) The ability to save anywhere in games (limited on consoles for storage reasons)

Now I believe there will ALWAYS be a market for hardcore gamers. Here's my big point though: Originally, the PC games market was made up of hardcore gamers--those of us who chose PC's over the graphically and control superior Nintendo. Over the last decade, PC Gaming expanded dramatically. Now, with consoles becoming more versatile, the niche PC Games occupied is being drawn away. So, we see a return to the hardcore gamer market.

I'm not sure this is a bad thing. As I've said, I think the overall quality of games was much higher then. There are great games now, but I think the number of great games released back then relative to the number of total games released is much higher.

[skybolt_1]

NO WAY. At least, not in my neighborhood. Some people have taken the drop in computer game sales as proof positive that the gaming industry is dying. This simply isn't true. While sales might be dropping, actual playing time has to be on the rise. One of the most popular games ever (with the exception of the Quake series), Half-Life, can be played on-line without the cd. This, naturally, has led to friends giving their cd to friends, those friends passing it on, ect. So, I don't think a drop in sales necessarily means a drop in popularity. In fact, the pseudo-piracy issue of loaning games to friends may actually have helped sales somewhat. In the case of Half-Life: Only one copy of the same CD key can play online at a time. So, the more people have the key, the greater the chances of getting a "Your CD key is currently in use" message. However, this would take some time to build up. By this time, anyone who is playing will (probably) be an addict to C-Strike :-). Hence, they will go buy their own copy. This is just my theory.

As for the death of Looking Glass, I am saddened. I feel that not to many original game concepts are coming out of the industy, and Looking Glass was one of the frontrunners. Their closing will, unhappily, serve as a warning to others with "something new."

But hey, I still play Thief!!!

[Warthog]

I wasn't going to respond back, but...

Your argument is based on pure speculation. None of us have no idea what is going to happen in the future. Dreamcast has internet support, but is anyone using it? Not to my knowledge.

Warthog

[Dputiger]

Just a quick thought back, Warthog:

All business is based on speculation. Investors speculate about the performance of companies. Companies speculate about the possible return on researching a type of product. Consumers speculate about the continued usefulness of the product on the shelf.

So, if enough designers speculate that consoles are where the future of game designing is, they'll move there. If enough designers move there, these companies will begin to produce better and better games. When those games start to sell in huge numbers, investors will see the profits and move to fund these companies.

Simplified? Sure. Guaranteed? No way. Could it go the exact opposite way? Absolutely. But, hey--that's why I love being in business. It's all about seeing which way the trends are going and staying two steps ahead. Sometimes your wrong and sometimes your right, but either way its fun.

[neo_otyugh]

one thing that a playstation shines at if you ask me is the game Gran Turismo....that game is to me by far the best car racing game EVER! every other racing games i have played pales next to it if you ask me...thats the only reason i own a playstation is for that game...

[cyclone2]

Sysopt (Joel?) if its control you are looking for then as I posted you will be able to hook up a (xbox only) usb mouse and keyboard to Xbox- control taken care of, next game quality and diversity- Halo, UT, and a slew of other quality games will be ported not just kiddie games of days past.
Warthog I dont live at home and have money to burn (did when I was 17) Now the mortgage comes first as well as food on the table, so if I can spend $500 on a system and not $2500 upgrading I will have saved $2000 that could go to my mortgage thus making me a rich man sooner! Priorities you know, now where was that flyer with the Gforce DDR in it? lol