Urgent. Help Needed.

[Bleeding Edge]

This is the scene.

Department store cosmetic counter environment. New installation. Need to do the cabling first.

Client wants DVD player by register at counter. Wants small flat-panel (LCD type) desk-top monitor/TV 50ft away. Ideal hookup is with monitor and home DVD player. If necessary, will use computer.

What issues am I looking at here. Are small flat-panel TVs available or do I need to go with a computer monitor? If monitor is required, what is the cable connection issue from a home DVD player to a monitor? Can this even be done? Also concerned about cable type and length.

Specific player, monitor and cable suggestions needed. As well as insights to possible hitches that I may encounter.

Holding up construction.

Help me.

[Roy]

I think what you need is in the pro-sumer world, not computers. The signal is composite video, the same stuff that comes out of the yellow connector of a home VCR.

The cable is called "RG59" 75ohm video co-ax.

There are several manufacturers of flat screen video monitors. If I get time, I'll get you some brands. What you need right now is to cable the infrastructure so the components can hook up when you get them.

The one thing you don't mention is sound. While you're at it run some shielded audio pairs eg Belden 8451. I may be necessary to use some balancing transformers if the source and destination are far enough apart for their unbalanced audio circuits to pick up hum. Keep it away from AC power runs.

Panasonic A-105 is a bottom line DVD player that would work. Flat screen monitors are made by NEC, Mitsubishi, Fujitsu and probably Toshiba. Check their sites.

[This message has been edited by Roy (edited 06-02-99).]

[Bleeding Edge]

I'm still cuising the sites. Just finished NEC and Mitsubishi.

These flat-panel displays all have the 15Dsub connections for computers. I haven't come across the flat-screen video monitors you mentioned. These would have the proper connectors?

If you find the time Roy...

So I can go ahead and have them lay down RG59 75ohm co-axial along with the Belden 8451.

Is one run of the co-ax good enough? Is that to be used for the composite video connection? Or is the regular (F?) connector we see on cable ends to be used? Is this not an issue as long as the RG59 is down, we can attach either connector?

[Roy]

The DVD player probably will have an RCA phono type connector, while the video monitor is likely to use the pro standard BNC type. BNC is easy to adapt to RCA.

I'l do some digging about the flat/composite monitors.

[Bleeding Edge]

Thanks. I'm still at it.

[Roy]

I found two so far, a friend has looked into this but I won't get his input until tomorrow. There are more choices with VGA/DB-15 devices, you still would want to ship composite video and convert at the display end with a cheap 'puter.

Sony LMD 1041 - 10.4" LCD
NEC PlasmaSync 3300 - 33" Gas Plasma, 5" thick.

[This message has been edited by Roy (edited 06-02-99).]

[Bleeding Edge]

NEC's to big. Will look into Sony now.

I think I may have the weekend, will hang in till tomorrow, see what your friend says.

Geez. I want to get this off my shoulder soon.

Edit-

The Sony looks good. It certainly has the inputs. Seems a bit small. 10" dia is the size of the BX6 user's manual! Could be that's all they want tho'.

Stick with me Roy. I need your help. It'll be over soon.



[This message has been edited by Bleeding Edge (edited 06-02-99).]

[Nathan]

I guess I'm not understanding the application here. Are they playing a video or prerecorded advertising to the public that continuiously loops? I would think with it being 50ft away you would get some signal degrading without a doubt.

What kind of picture quality are they looking for? Are they selling cosmetics with this? Does a very clear picture(s) of the products help enhance the sales of the products? How many of these are going in? If multiple monitors are needed, that can be a different issue.

Sorry if this doesn't help. Just asking some questions because I don't understand the whole picture.

[Roy]

There's no signal degradation with composite video for the first 1000 feet or so, and it can be looped-through to additional monitors.

[Bleeding Edge]

C'mon Nathan. I thought I was pretty straight forward here. You make me sound like one of your teeth-pullers. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

I can only guess as how they want to use it. I don't know. They want it, they get it. More than likely, it something to do with showcasing their specialty products or some sort of instructional video (DVD?)... I can't even guess!

Your right about this being only part of the picture. But right now it's the hangup. It's the type of cabling and it's installation, and the matching/finding of a usable flat-panel video display that has the proper connector.

I know you asking for more of an overview. Without getting into to much, it goes something like this...

The cosmetics industry is, as you would imagine, a multi-billion dollar industry, like many other industries. A design firm that I have some relation to, has a client that is part of this cosmetic empire. The firm started the design trend of customized cosmetic displays we see in department stores, such as Macy's and Saks. They don't just design counters but provide a Corporate Identity -The Look. This started years ago and has escalated to the "silent design war" among the companies. All in the effort to become the most uniquely identifiable. From the products and their packaging, to the way they are displayed, to the displays themselves. Everything.

So that's the short end. What they want to stick in the player or if they even use the darn thing is not a concern. Like I say, "They want it.."

Edit-

It's main purpose is probably an eye catcher to the shopper who would normally just walk by without looking. I guess it's to get that edge.


[This message has been edited by Bleeding Edge (edited 06-02-99).]

[This message has been edited by Bleeding Edge (edited 06-03-99).]

[Bleeding Edge]

I for got to say hello to you Nathan. Hey Nathan!

I don't think I can do much more with this tonight Roy. I'm suddenly very tired.

I wanted to tell you I ordered the Hercules Ultra. It may not even be shipping yet. I'll let you guys know how it compares with the TNT.

Also wanted to ask which is the better choice, purchasing one 128MB Cosair PC133 module or one 128MB PC100 and one 64MB PC100 (the Corsair BX-2) at basically the same price. I'm aware that PC133 is not yet standardized. I want to retire or replace the BX6-2 this fall with a Camino based board.

[Nathan]

Thanks Roy!

B.E.

I was just trying to respect you and your info and as to whether you wanted to say publicly what you are doing. I didn't mean to imply or state that I had to pull teeth to get info from you. I didn't think that was the case at ALL.

I can understand the situation. They really don't know what they want. The fear I had was after it got installed, it's not what they wanted or pictured it was suppose to be in their minds. Now that can be a headache.

Sorry to have miscommunicated about that.

[Bleeding Edge]

Stop already! I need to "call it the day".

Of course I don't want to publicly say what I'm doing. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif I think I slipped by this one this time too! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I don't want to even admit to myself who I really am. LOL http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif I've got ship loads of memories I don't want to face. LOL

G'nite.

Hear from you here tomorrow, Roy?

Edit-
Nathan. I should have put a smile after "teeth-puller"

[This message has been edited by Bleeding Edge (edited 06-03-99).]

[Roy]

Yup.

[Nathan]

Hey B.E.

Don't worry about it. Everything is cool!!

[Roy]

I talked to my friend about the project. He suggests using a VGA flat screen because there are so many more choices. He saw a VGA/NTSC converter at a swap-meet last weekend. This would eliminate the need for a computer, and still use the RG-59 video cable and cheap DVD player. So next let's look for the converrer, He thought Kensington might be a source.

Does anyone know of others?

[Nathan]

Hi B.E. & Roy!!

Here's some info.

http://wearables.blu.org/wear-hard-98/19985153.html

http://sundae.triumf.ca/picturetel/

http://eio.com/colorlcd.htm

I don't know if this is helpful, but I tried.

[Bleeding Edge]

There's alot of VGA-to-NTSC video converters but the NTSC Video-to-VGA is scarce. These are different beings, correct? One way but not the other.

Will you clarify/confirm?

[Roy]

Yes, I think my friend had it backwards.

However, what you need does exist. It's the Marshall V-VGA300, $199 MSRP. www.mars-cam.com/optical/cp/v-vga300.html (http://www.mars-cam.com/optical/cp/v-vga300.html) http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif

[MadMax]

Converters? They're cheaper than I thought...

www.hallresearch.com/hall/mirrorsAccess.htm (http://www.hallresearch.com/hall/mirrorsAccess.htm) TVB-100 NTSC to VGA Converter

marshall.wincam.com/optical/opn/v-vga300.html (http://marshall.wincam.com/optical/opn/v-vga300.html) V-VGA300 NTSC/PAL to VGA Converter

[This message has been edited by MadMax (edited 06-03-99).]

[Bleeding Edge]

Grrreat!

Okay the last hurdle guys.

There are digital flat-panels and analog ones. I'm thinking with a converter box the analog one is the safer bet.

What do you think?

Edit-

Checked all the links above. Is there anything here that foots the bill? http://www.analogway.com/

[This message has been edited by Bleeding Edge (edited 06-03-99).]

[MadMax]

Yes... The Smart Cut 120 Seamless Switcher. Looks way more expensive than the others though.

Stay with analog. Digital displays require digital sig outputs. They work in a stupid way right now. Instead of just maintaining a digital sig all the way to the target device (display), the digital graphics adapter goes D to A and BACK to D again. I'm not a DVD guru but I would imagine that cheap DVD boxes have an analog out sig? Too much hassle for what you're doing. Good luck!

[This message has been edited by MadMax (edited 06-03-99).]

[Roy]

If "digital" and "analog" mean the same thing in flat panel displays as in conventional ones, they refer to the setup controls - push buttons for digital, knobs for analog.

The conversion is from analog NTSC video to VGA which also is analog of a different flavor - RGB/Sync.

[This message has been edited by Roy (edited 06-03-99).]

[Bleeding Edge]

Thank you for all of your responses, your valued input, your concern. Its been a great help and its been a great feeling! This was my first post asking for help. The matter was important to me...

To be able to help others (the times I do get it right) is a satisfying experience. But to call for help and receive such a response is a great feeling indeed.

We're doing something right here guys.

PS

If any flash of light concerning this matter lightens a path in your minds, I'll be back here. Otherwise..


Everything is set in motion. The case here is closed.

[MadMax]

Roy~ Yes, you have a good point there, but...
There are digital flat screens out there that are truly digital. Meaning that the vid sig they process is digital only referred to as "DFP or Digital Flat Panel". These require an adapter that sends dfp out rather than analog.

http://www.prgr.com/images/dpp550.jpg
www.prgr.com (http://www.prgr.com) DPP550 Direct Digital TFT-LCD Flat Panel Display

and http://www.matrox.com/mga/products/flat_panel/home.htm


[This message has been edited by MadMax (edited 06-03-99).]

[StarWatcher]

Bleeding Edge I wish you success and a big fee http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[socalgal]

I knew you would do it, and I knew those that could help would. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif All you guys have the right stuff.

Ditto StarWatchers sentiment!

[Bleeding Edge]

That was a sudden flash of light.

Indeed there is a difference. http://www.dfp-group.org/

Sorry to disappoint you guys but no fee for me. At least not money or anything tangible. Payment due after death. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[Roy]

No fee? No digits!

Indeed there is an emerging technology called DFP, with another standard for signals. I think it is far beyond the scope, purpose and budget of the current project. Maybe next time. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif