Win98 shutdown problem solved!

[Strip]

Edit» The title should read "Win98se"

All of a sudden, my system works perfect. Shutting down every time. Only problem is that I'm not really sure what happended.
But hey, if I describe the last day here, maybe one of you experts can get something out of it?

Ok, this is what I did.
I uninstalled the graphics driver for my Stealth II s220.
Turend off the computer.
Took out the Stealth and the Voodoo2.
Put in a GeForce AGP.
Reboot.
Set up for VGA (Computer wouldn't let me do anything else)
Reboot.
Installed the latest Nvidia drivers, rebooted. Something was not really right here, so I "updated" the GeForce drivers from the device manager with the same driver. Windows found the "Updated" driver.
Rebooted. Something still wrong.
Went into the device manager and disabled IRQ steering.
Reboot. Still not working good.
Uninstalled the Voodoo drivers (I'd forgotten them before, even though the card was gone).
Reboot. Still not right.
Eabled IRQ steering.
Reboot.

NOW, when I boot into windows this time, there is a screen telling me "IRQ holder something something found"!
Only one message, normally there are like three or four of them when windows find those IRQ thingys.

The GeForce is still not working very good (really low framerates).
Uninstalled the GeForce drivers.
Picked out the GeForce.
Installed Voodoo2 & Stealth II.
Boot.
Setup for VGA. (Yes, I did the same mistake twice http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif)
Reboot.
Installing latest Rendition drivers + Latest 3Dfx driver.
Reboot.


Somewhere in this procedure, the computer started to work perfect. Every time I press the power button, the computer shut down. Same with the normal "Start-exit-shutdown", it always works.

Before my GeForce trip, the system would only shut down properly 1 out of twenty times!
I hope you guys can see what I did here and help some one else, that is having the same shutdown problem.
Since my problem was solved, there must be a (easier) way to solve it?


[This message has been edited by Strip (edited 02-29-2000).]

[nilknarf]

I'm assuming that it's still working right, right?

Every time I thought it was fixed, a few shutdowns later it would shutdown. Then it would work right for several more shutdowns, w/o me doing anything!

We currently have about 20 of our computers running 98 or 98SE. I have applied every patch/fix that has been suggested and we still have intermittent shudown problems on all of them. Our users aren't complaining as much about the problem since they only have to push the power button to turn off the computer, and when they restart windows goes through the scandisk deal and that's it. No other problems have shown up as a result of this procedure.

In your case, my guess is the drivers for the new video card work better with 98 than the other drivers.

The first suggestion I get from anyone when I tell them I have a problem is update drivers for video, sound, and network cards.

[Strip]

It's still working yes. Actually, the shutdown AND soft restart/boot works EVERY time since this "adventure.

However, I don't think it's driver related. I use the same drivers as I always did. Both for my Stealth as for my Voodoo2.

I believe that this "IRQ-holder-thingy" is the key.

Same as you, I have downloaded and installed every patch avaliable. Hours of digging in newsgroups and formums. No result. Reinstalling, uninstalling, all kinds of stalling... No result. But now... everything works perfect. First time that I'm actually satisfied with Win98se.

The shutdown problem was a really big problem for me. Since I have an ATX case, I had to hold the powerbutton for five secs. Changing the option in BIOS didn't make any difference. And also, my cabinet is built-in in my desk, difficult to reach.

Edit» I wasn't very clear above:
The Geforce is now history. Since I didn't manage to make it work properly, I took it out and reinstalled my old video card(s).
("Diamond Stealth II s220" + "Orchid Righteous 3d II")

AGP-cards and AOpen AX59 Pro doesn't seem to be a good combination...


[This message has been edited by Strip (edited 03-06-2000).]

[nilknarf]

The IRQ steering could be the key. Someone emailed me and said they disabled the IRQ steering and it seemed to work.

In my case, disabling IRQ steering is easier said than done. If I disable it, our network cards stop working. I haven't had a chance to work any more on getting around that one, but I think I'll haev some time today to try.

I'll let you know, but I think we're on to something here!

[Dave_H]

Many people have claimed sucess with assigning an IRQ to VGA, I wonder if that is the "IRQ-holder-thingy"
Dave

[Strip]

Assigning IRQ to VGA is found in my BIOS. That has always been enabled. Also, enabling/disabling IRQ steering had no effect before. I've tried almost everything http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

I'm not sure here, but I believe that "ACPI IRQ-Holder for PCI IRQ-steering" (free translation from Swedish) is the "thingy" my system found. I've seen those messages before, but they always came in groups of three or four, when Windows found them at startup. This time it came only once..

I don't know if I had it before or not, but you might check on one of your (non-working) computers: On the same IRQ as the VGA card, there is now one of the above "ACPI IRQ-Holder for PCI IRQ-steering". I know that it has been there for the NIC as well as for the soundcard before though.


As with your NIC, I used to have problems too, but when I "forced" windows to give the NIC and the soundcard an IRQ (5 for NIC and 10 for sound) it all worked.
Even though Windows claimed that the NIC was on IRQ 5, without the "forcing", the network refused to work at all. Dead.

I will get a machine here soon. Almost the exact same setup. In a few days. Can't wait http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[nastee]

I don't have any problems with my shut downs anymore.
I just go start/shut down/ restart
when the computer starts to boot back up I just shut it off.
No problems
~nastee~

[Ygor]

Hmmm. We had the same type of problem on ours here. One with an amd k6-2, the other with a pentium.

For different reasons, both got a fresh format (C drive only) & reinstallation of win98. Both now start up and shut down correctly & faster.

Now if only I could get the 98 serv-pack to install correctly on the pentium machine... all else installed & worked...

[nilknarf]

Anyone have any bright ideas for my situation?

I'm going to try and force the nic config through the 3com s/w, then disable the PCI IRQ steering. My problem is going to be on the laptops, their nic's are PC cards which are much trickier than desktop PCI/ISA cards. Any thoughts on what to try for the laptops?

Q: There's nothing in my BIOS settings that indicates it controls ACPI or IRQ steering outside of the 'Resources controlled by' setting. What else should I look for in the BIOS, or should I just try changing W98 settings?

[Erny Baghak II]

This may be useful to somebody...?
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q238/0/96.asp

[nilknarf]

Been there, done that.

That was one of the first things I did. It didn't gain me anything.

I have the most up to date drivers, have applied the MS patch, have disabled several things in msconfig, and have disabled several startup services. All based on recommendations from manufacturers.

The only thing that everyone says seems to work is disabling IRQ steering. In my case that disables the NIC, and I haven't been able to force configure the NIC yet. The NIC is a 3com 3c905c-TX.

If anyone has any thought about how to force configure the NIC settings, let me know.

Thanks

[Strip]

Disable ACPI in BIOS. Then you will (probably) be able to access the settings for the NIC. After setting the options you can activate ACPI again.
Worked for me once upon a time anyway.

---
Btw, my computer stopped working again. Same sh*t when power foo. I took my NIC (ISA ElCheapo 10Mbit) and threw it in the garbage can. Now, everything's fine again. No problem at all. I'm still curious though, why it worked for a few weeks... after the video driver experience (See above). I never managed to reproduce that.

[nilknarf]

I have the smae problem, I think it's fixed until a few days or weeks later it starts happening again.

I've got most of the machines to a point where it happens only once every few days. But, there are still a couple, identical machines to the others and that I've done the same stuff to, that still have the shutdown problem consistently.

I did manage to find ACPI in the BIOS, my problem still is, that I need the stuff to force config the NICs.

[nilknarf]

I just figured out how to force configure these darn NICs, AND disable the IRQ steering at the same time. AND IT WORKS!!!

I also changed the settings in the BIOS to set resources manually, and no PNP OS. I also assigned an IRQ to the PCI slot where my NIC is.

I'm going to go with this for a week and see if I have any more problems. I'll give you all a full report, if it works. If it doesn't work....

[This message has been edited by nilknarf (edited 03-23-2000).]

[nilknarf]

Guess what...

I force configured the NIC and disabled IRQ steering and...

It still doesn't work right!

Screw it, manual shutdown takes 5 seconds and we only do it once a day.

[Strip]

*S* You finally gave up eh?
Well I guess there's no solution to the problem. It's just a thing that Microsoft put in there to make us buy next version. Just as they always did... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif

I'm looking for a new NIC now. But I don't know what to choose. Maybe those Netgear ones...

[nilknarf]

Question is, what MS OS do we choose next. Because, no matter what we choose, it will be untested and full of bugs that will take them until the next OS to solve.

I guess it's just a never-ending cycle.

NT might not be a bad option while it's still available.

Oh well, I guess as long as the 10% of it that we use works, it doesn't much matter.

[jgargac]

We've had the same problem here with Win98SE machines not shutting down. The computers would lock up on "Waiting for Windows to ShutDown."We went to the Microsoft web site and downloaded the Win98SE ShutDown Supplement package and it has fixed all of the problems so far. Hope this helps.

[nilknarf]

We did the same thing, but it only worked for a few days.

I think that fix is only for a handful of HW configs. I hope yours is one of them, otherwise there is very little you can do.

From what I've seen of this problem some fixes work on some machines, some work on other machines, and then there are machines like ours where the fixes only partially work.

I hope W2K has fewer problems than W9x.

[Mntsnow]

Update your Video and NIC card drivers and you should be happy with the results http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Mntsnow

[Strip]

I hope W2K has fewer problems than W9x.

Do you really believe in that? Isn't that excactly what we're all sayin every time M/S comes with something new?

I remember the ol'
Windows 286, the first "real" windows. I said "Those a**holes better come up w/ something better in the next version" when they was to release Win3.0. And then 3.1... 3.11... *sigh*

Win95 was supposed to be the ULTIMATE relief for us users... Finally we were suposed to get rid of DOS. We all know how close they came with that *S* http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Win98... WOW!!! First OS from M/S that actually worked... almost... after a few upgrades...

***Win98SE***
That one deserves a few stars! O-N-E new feature since Win98! And it didn't even work very good *S* (Internet sharing thingy) How the H**LL is it possible that people actually PAYED for this one??? Beats me!

[nilknarf]

Mntsnow - I've updated every driver on the system, no effect.

Strip - Win2K is a WinNT based system. I have found NT to be far more stable and have fewer problems than any version of Win9x. Since Win2K is supposed to be NT based, unlike Win9x which is DOS based, it should be much more stable. That's not to say it won't have problems, as it does have its share of problems, but being more stable, any problems would hopefully not be of a fatal nature like so many of them are in Win9x.

In case you're wondering, I've used just about every OS MS has come out with since DOS 3.3, including Windows and OS2. I've also used Apple/Mac OS's, Unix/Linux, Netware 2-5, and a number of other proprietery OS's.

And, every vendor makes great promises about their s/w, Microsoft's problem is they actually try to make good on those promises and if it doesn't work, they release it anyway and then release a bunch of patches to try and fix it.

[codybear]

http://www.geocities.com/~budallen/

[Strip]

Codybear »
Thanx! I found some really interesting stuff in there.