OT: Need help with car speakers. What's the diff between..

[Gutter Ball]

regular 6" speakers and 6 X 9's? I have 4 6's all around(the stereo shop called my car a tweet machine!) I would like a little more bass(I set my 200 watt amp to cut out the back tweeters, okay...but not really enough) but I don't want to get another amp and subs(way too much!). So I found a nice pair of Kenwood 6 X 9's(my friend told me they give more bass and I still get the treble) for $30 US. However, the salesperson said that I WOULDN'T get anymore bass out of the 6 X 9's than I would out of my current 6's(Kenwood 110 watts). He said I should get a couple of 8' subs and just go "free air". Is he pulling a fast one on me? $30 is too good of a price to pass up on 6X9's. Help please http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif The sale on them 6X9's ends soon!

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

they probably called your system a tweet machine because you don't have anything bigger than 6".... not that it's ALL about size, hehe, I have 2x12" subs that I happend to grab on sale for $150 and I'll tell ya, they are worth it if you have the space to install them or have a box.

and if you have found 6x9's that would handle the 200 watts RMS ( 50 x 4 I'm guessing )that you have, for only $30... I would think theres something up too but for $30 what do you have to lose... they are Kenwood and thats a name to stand by usually in my book.

I would say go for the 6x9's if your not gonna shell out the bucks for larger subs, and I would still keep the tweeters cut off in the rear ( more power for the BASS! feel it! )

Although this is only my opinion, I could be wrong http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

I wish you luck http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[izzzy12k]

I'd go with the 6x9's too, they will provide bass as well as your highs.

you gotta have both, you it will not sound good.

That's my opinion,
izzzy12k

[RobRich]

The 6*9's will most likely produce about 150% more bass. The 6's have a very stiff cone, great for midrange/highs, but poor for bass response. Also, try to get a 3way 6*9 set. These will have the standard 6*9 cone (preferable poly), a midrange, and a tweet. That way you don't have to worry about loosing any sound.

Robert Richmond

[Gutter Ball]

Okay, thanks to you both! I'll pick them up as soon as I can! It's not that I don't want subs, I just don't want THAT much bass thumpin' outta my car http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif My setup supposedly is the "concert" setup? The treble(and some bass) comes from the front, but ONLY the bass comes from the back...is this right? I should have some treble coming from the back though, right?

Mojo: Yep, 4 X 50 http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif And do you have 4 speakers and 2 subs? Or just 2 speakers in the front and 2 subs in the back?

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

I have 2 3way 6" in the doors and the 2 12" subs behind the seats. I have a Pickup so I really can't fit anymore, heh http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

Good Luck to ya

[shadow]

The 6x9's will give you good bass if they are mounted properly. They need to have lotsa free air behind em, like mounted on the rear deck between the interior and the trunk.

If you put em in some crappy little box, you'll be disappointed.

[pickel]

Don't forget to build an echo box underneath
the speakers themselves. Get body sound proofing material and line the box with at least three fourths of an inch thick. The box should be like a trapezoid in shape( inverted) and at least three inches in depth. This setup came stock in my 1973 Malibu ,dual 6x9's on the rear deck and when I installed three way Audiovox speakers the BASS was great even with stock Delco Am/Fm/ 8 track radio.And with reverb sounded even better.

the pickel

[Gutter Ball]

3 ways? Darn, I don't think they're 3 way, but I'll know on Saturday cause my gf will be bringing them down for me(okay, I admit it, I saw the deal out of town..wasn't sure so I had to ask you folks here first http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif) and they are going on my rear deck with no box. Just right on the metal! Like Mojo said, $30 isn't much, considering I paid $65/pair for my current Kenwoods. I don't think they were 3 way 6's either, but I'm looking at tweets too(Kenwood, $60 a pair). Thanks again for your replies http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif So one last question, I should let the 6X9's give both treble, bass and midrange(if available) right? Not cut out the treble and mid at all?? If I do it that way, I will get more noticeable bass right? Okay, thanks again y'all http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[izzzy12k]

If you have the extra $$$ invest in a set of 4 way 6x9's. You will get crisper highs and better detail.

izzzy12k

[richamies]

6x9's are pretty cool in terms of sound/size/price. As Robrich said the 3 ways are definately the way to go.

My setup was(nothing flash but sounded sweet as a nut http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif) :-

2x10inch subs screwed to the rear seats http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif
2 350watt 3 way 6x9's on the rear parcel shelf
6inch 2 way units in the front
2 1.5inch tweeters

The tweeters make such a wicked improvement I'd sooner have those and no cd player! So long as you have well recorded cassettes, that is http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif.

Oh yeah I had a JVC head unit too http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif was 20watts/channel RMS, although that sounds pitiful you should have heard it! Absolutely sweet!!

[psyklone]

actually you'll get better sound out of the 3 ways than you will with the 4 ways. the main reason is you lose efficiency in the crossover circuits built into the speaker that separate the signal and send them to their respective speaker components (mids, tweets, etc). the less hand-offs, the better. in a lot of cases the four ways will give you a little bit better treble response, but very rarely is it worth giving up the better quality midrange. there's nothing worse sounding than a muddy midrange. and about the speaker placement, yeah .. it sounds about right. the placement of the bass doesn't need to be in the rear because if the crossover is set right, the bass will be non-directional. and you don't just want to place the 6x9's in a rear deck and expect them to sound good. you will want to put them in a sealed box, the shape of which isn't REAL important as long as the front plane isn't parallel to the rear, otherwise you'll have a problem with standing waves. if you give them too much airspace in the boxes then you may end up with more bass response than you want which will also result in muddy sounding midrange. if they come boxed, look for a 'VAS' recommendation for airspace.

another thing i noticed is that you are mentioning the watt rating of each speaker. remember, that doesn't indicate how powerful the speaker is it just tells you how much power the speaker can handle from an amplifier. you'll also want to know if those ratings are RMS values or peak.

[jad1097]

If you could afford them I would get 5 1/4" or 6 1/2" seperates. This way you have a seperate woofer and tweeter. The reason for not recommending 6X9's is the tweeter/mid blocks a bit of the sound comming from the woofer, I forget what it is called right now. I had a pair of Boston Acostic Pro seris 6 1/2" seperates and was very happy with them even when I took the subs out there was still plenty of mid-bass,

[Gutter Ball]

Yep, I know I have to cut http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif The funny thing? The rear deck already has outlines for the 6X9's! So I just need to follow the lines! If I need to put 6's back in, they'll still fit afterwards. There's plenty of air space back there, so I should be okay. I mean, I do LIKE what I have now...I just want the little more bass that the 6X9's will give. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[weestro]

Okay you said you have 6"'s all the way around correct?? well 6X9's won'twork for you unless you want to cut larger holes in your car!!!

Good 6" speakers can provide plenty of extra bass! If 6X9's don't have their needed airspace you're wasting your $$$...

You'll discover this soon enough!

Cheers!

[Inferior]

6x9's are in improvement over 6's, but hardly enough to make you spend money on.....

Your much better off saving for subs man, got 2 12's on our car at 400 watts each (boston rally series) and man they were worth all of the dough..

Thing is, every you got a stereo seems like it needs to be replaced since it sounds so **** good in the car....

[flashngcurser]

I agree with the above message. The question is: What quality of sound do you want? If you simply want bass and you are on a budget, i would suggest a pair of pioneer 8" subs in a obcom box with 200watt amp with built in X-over. If you want really good sound quality you will need an electronic X-over system. An X-over is a device that separates highs mids bass and sub. The out-put of each goes to its own separate amp, and from that amp to the CORRECT TYPE of driver (speaker).

6x9 speakers do everything, but they do nothing well.

The 6" speakers that you have now usually (if they are name brand, and not dual cone) have good mids, and "OK" highs. With the box above an wired correctly, you will have a system will impress most people. Have fun its almost as addicting as OC'in.

PS: If you want high quality bass, you will want a driver no larger 12". Horrible sound quality above 12", if you need more volume go for more drivers.

PSS: The air space around the driver (as noted above) is VERY important. If you want to make your own there are calculations for volume, vent size etc.. I had a handbook years ago, you can probably find info on online somewhere. (someone said there is a testing agency that does this now, is this true? Do they match encosures with speakers? If this is true i may be building another car system, the kids never listen to me anyway.....)

[This message has been edited by flashngcurser (edited 05-31-2000).]

[psyklone]

if you get worse sound from a sub over 12", then you're probably doing something wrong, like not giving it enough airspace or too much airspace. my personal opinion is that any sub over 15" is a waste, but that doesn't mean that you can't get a little bit better sound by going to something bigger ... anything's possible. my preference is for 12" subs as well but i've been in the business too long to know better than saying that you get horrible sound quality using subs over 12"

and building the most efficient and accurate sound system is very addicting.

http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[Inferior]

And by the way, if you get subs, you also have to prepare your car for rattles.... http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif I'm serious....

Our car didn't take them well. All kinds of new rattles everyday. These subs made the tail lights fall out, and made the rearview mirror on the windsheild fall off too...... http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif Sure it was quite funny, but all the rattles distorting the sound quality isn't......

BTW* To set the record straight, a 15 inch sub sounds better than a twelve. Since the bigger the woofer, the less it has to work to create bass. And as it gets easier to produce by the woofer, the clearer the bass becomes... Only way it sounds worse is if you got them set too high and they overpower the rest of the speakers...

But two twelves is absolutely perfect since they are already loud enugh to cause ear damage, and man are they bass-y..... And BTW, I think I have suffered ear damage... http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Inferior (edited 05-31-2000).]

[weestro]

Hey if it's bass you're after...I've got 2 12" Infinity Kappa's for sale right now! They're in a perfectly tuned chambered/sealed MDF box!! They don't fit in my TA so...This is only if you you want some serious bass though!!

email me if interested!!

[RobRich]

Thinkg about rattling your car apart, I have to reset my hatch alignments on my Firebird about every month because of this.

Here's my Firebird's current system:

-Pioneer 140watt max head unit
-2 = 2*6 tweets
-2 = 6*9 3 ways
-MTX 425watt RMS 2 channel amp (actively crossed over)
-2 = 10" MTX Sub's in ported enclosures

I used to run the above system with the following items in a small Audi 4000S Quattro(until I ticked off the local police):

-Audio Gods 400watt max 2 ch class A digital amp
-Phantom 200watt max 2ch class A amp
-Alpine 100watt max 2ch class A amp
-Craig 40watt max 2ch amp
-40watt max active graphic equalizer
-active low pass crossover
-2 passive 2 way crossovers
-1 = 8" sub with 200watt max in ported bandpass tube
-2 = 8" dual cone subs in sealed enclosure
-2 = 8" woofers in ported enclosures
-2 = 8" woofers
-2 = 6*9 3 ways in sealed enclosure
-2 = 3" dome tweets
-2 = 4" full ranges
-2 = 3.5" mid ranges

I was going for serious SPL with decent quality. My midrange turned out to be seriously impressive, and actually quite clear. Ever since the police told me to turn it down (or loose it!), most of my stuff is lying in storage collecting dust.

Catch ya' later,
Robert Richmond

[Inferior]

Did you know that it's nice a legal to turn the stereo as loud as you want as long as the car is "MOVING"?

Found this out when some old granny phoned the police when these babies (two boston 12"s with a 600 watt kenwood amp) were rocking the neighbourhood everynight.... http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

Got away with a warning the first time though... http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[Underclocked]

You guys should treasure the highs while you can still hear them!!
There is more to music than THUMP, THUMP, THUMP! http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/biggrin.gif

doh!

[This message has been edited by Underclocked (edited 06-01-2000).]

[RobRich]

My city actually has a noise ordinance law, and any stereo considered publically distracting is grounds for a fine or confiscation. The fines are like this:

1st offense: $90 US
2nd: $180
3rd: Confiscation
4th: Confiscation and impound car!

I also didn't help that I was listening to my system in downtown in 6:00AM rush hour traffic. I talked my out of it, so I got lucky. And you can forget about fighting it, as the judges will just slap you with a larger fine plus court costs. I thought the best thing to do was to scale it down, and keep my life simple.

Catch ya' later,
Robert Richmond

[Gutter Ball]

Wow, lots of you think I should get some subs! I was offered some boxed 12" JL subs by the shop I go to, but I don't really want THAT much bass again...people hear you pumpin' your stuff and they'll want to break in. I already lost a small subwoofer(some cheapo 10") and a deck before cause someone broke in and messed up my car...so I DON'T want to go through that experience again :/ Just something that will give me a little more "OOOMF" and maybe make a bit of noise outside the car too http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif Either way, them 6X9's are on the way here tomorrow! http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif If I REALLY want subs again...I'll refer back to this thread again for sure! My current setup is:

Kenwood KDC 4011 Deck
4 Kenwood KFC S166 6" speakers
Kenwood KAC 748 Amp

Going to:
Swap 2 speakers for Kenwood KFC-6905S 6X9's
Add Kenwood KFC-ST3 Tweets.

Maybe later:
Another Kenwood Amp
Subs!

Thanks for all the input y'all!

[RobRich]

Hope they sound great, so keep us posted!

I feel the 6*9's will give you that extra bass you 6's were missing.

Robert Richmond

[Warthog]

I have two 15" speakers (not subs) hooked up to my computer. That's some heavy duty sound right there. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

Warthog

[Inferior]

BTW* JL subs are really good... http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

Thank god im a canadian where the crime rate is really low... http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

And our car looks so crappy no one will think there's "ANYTHING" good in it.... hehehehehe http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif