Is Overclocking wrong and immoral?

[hai]

Based on some peoples' viewpoints on piracy, can we say overclocking is a stealing of extra MHz from Intel and AMD? http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

Say, you buy a cheap 500Mhz cpu and overclock to 1GHz. Then you won't buy 1GHz expensive silicon chips for a while. Intel and AMD are hurt for your stealing of 500Mhz cpu power.

Someone's life will be ruined by you because they don't have extra money to buy a fourth car or 3nd house for their family.

And so on.

I'm already laughing now.

[hd581]

(Well, just to see where we can go w/ this...)

Yes it's immoral. It's exploting a weakness in the system. Chip manufacturers sell you a product of a certain value and consumers have no right to take advantage of them by o/c'ing. It's akin to standing at an ATM machine that allows you to take out more money than is in your account (untraceably). Would you do it?

[This message has been edited by hd581 (edited 05-27-2000).]

[Ultima]

I think everybody has the right to o/c their chips!!!

Why??? I'll tell ya why!!!

Both Amd and Intel, have done the following more then once:

They produced let's say 450 chips!!! They were already capable of building chips of 550 and 600, but they waited with em, so they could fully exploid the 450 chip, for it was the fastest at the moment!!!

You understand what I mean!!! They have taken more then enough advantage of the customers, so I say everybody has the right to o/c their chips!!!

And besides, as soon as you have bought it, it is yours, and you can do anything you want to your own stuff!!!
I don't hear anybody complaining when I would throw a vase on the ground cause I don't like the color, now do I???

Just my thoughts on the matter

Pim

[mgordon99]

Immoral? Give me a break! You have got to be kidding hd581.

That is about the most rediculous thing I have heard. Exploiting a weakness in the system??? Hey, it's MY system, I can exploit anything I want in it!

Sorry but my computer does not in the least bit resemble what an ATM does. If it did, I would be rich of course.

[welsh wizard]

users rights. you buy it you can do what you want with it, o/clock it it, use it to try out your new rifle, etc http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif

it's only wrong when a dealer does it and don't tell you when you buy a system.

that 500 being over clocked isn't hurting AMD or Intel, after all some one is buying the 1GHz and O/Cing that one also. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif
WW

[Warthog]

What hd meant was that you're essentially getting the extra 500mhz for free (instead of buying 1ghz chip) just like you would get extra money for free out of an ATM in his illustration. You're getting money for free because that extra 500mhz is really money that you didn't need to spend. Might be kinda confusing...

Warthog

[hd581]

The same could be said of software piracy. Once I buy 1 CDROM of Win2k, I'm free to do as I please w/ it. I can break it, play frisbee, or burn 10 copies of it and install it on 10 of my computers.

I'm in not taking anything away from Microsoft by making multiple copies of something I own.

O/c'ing is just hardware piracy.

[desmocat]

The way it was explained to me, a family of processors is made on the same die and tested at the maximum speed it is supposed to be stable at.
In other words,a run of chips is tested at say, 800 Mhz, they pass,bang.These are 800's
another tests at 800, but 30% fail in some way or another.
They are then tested at 733 Mhz,all pass, these are marked as 733. It would be impractable to design all the photomasks and stuff for a whole new processor for every diffrent speed. So in essence, when you overclock,you are just seeing if your chip can do it's maximum(or more) much the same way as when to put performance parts on your ride.
By the way, both my ducks are"overclocked" http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif Mp

[SysOpt]

Nah, that's like saying it's wrong to tweak a car's ECM computer chip for extra horsepower (or to add other performance equipment to YOUR car - free flow exhaust, intake, etc). The auto manufacturer backed off the settings a bit in order to allow every crappy gasoline in the world to be used - the tweaked version requires premium gas.

Same with overclocking - the manufacturer rates the CPU at a speed that will run well with mediocre cooling and that every chip, regardless of its yield/quality, can handle. Add good cooling and get lucky with a quality chip (or, don't get UNlucky with a poor chip), and you can tweak more power out of your specific chip.

Does it hurt sales of faster chips? To some degree, sure. If even one person decides to overclock their processor rather than purchase a new one, that's one lost (or more aptly put, delayed) sale. And there are lots of enthusiasts out there doing it.

Personally, I think chip manufacturers should sell two types of chips - a 100% reliable with just about any cooling/environment plain old chip, and a tweaked powerhouse requiring good cooling, etc., that they already tested as being able to handle the speed. They could sell these optimized chips for more than the regular ones, but not for the full price of the next fastest "regular" chip. For instance, there might be an Athlon 1GHz "regular" for (I'm making up these numbers here) $800, and an Athlon 1GHz "optimized" for $650 (but the optimized version is actually an optimized 800, for instance). Then they could figure out how to totally disable overclocking, thereby solving the remarked processor issue, and still please enthusiasts.

In any case, we have a moral OBLIGATION to optimize the performance of any machine we purchase http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif. Be it a CPU or a toaster oven.

Scott

[This message has been edited by SysOpt (edited 05-27-2000).]

[buddmann]

hd581,Overclocking your chip is NOT the same as making copies and installing them on ALL of your pc's.
When you install the software,IF you read the agreement,it is for use on 1 PC and a copy can be made for back-up purposes ONLY,unless you BUY a license for multiple machines.
As far as O/Cing MY chips,I can do whatever I please with it,so long as I don't expect the manufacturers warranty to cover it for the 3 years when I purchased it for it's ORIGINAL purpose.
Also,say you have a vehicle with a 200hp engine with single exhaust,and 2 bbl carb,you get a dual exhaust and a 4bbl carb to replace it,well you basically OCed the vehicle because now it has more Horsepower from the engine.Is this wrong also?

Just my thoughts on this subject http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif
buddmann

[This message has been edited by buddmann (edited 05-27-2000).]

[chipbgt]

I think you guys forgot to notice that Hd was probably just saying that to get the conversation started. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif Im sure hes running a liquid nitrogen cooled cpu himself http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[hd581]

(LOL chip, just humor me)

budd, look at the reason the software license is there in the 1st place. By making copies of the software, you're stealing the extra 9 copies from Microsoft that you didn't purchase.

In the same way, by o/c'ing, you're stealing the extra 200 MHz from Intel that you didn't purchase.

O/c'ing means you're refusing to pay the price that Intel has set for that speed. As Scott said, it hurts sales for Intel if people overclock instead of buying the fast chips. You don't want to hurt Intel do you? http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/frown.gif

[chipbgt]

I am starting to agree with Hd. If I wanted a p3 600 I should have BOUGHT a p3 600 instead of overclocking my 450. you people who overclock make me sick http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/frown.gif

[SysOpt]

heh

[Ultima]

Hey Sysopt,

About the fact of selling these optimized chips, for us enthousiasts, I don't think that would work so good!!!!
Why not, you ask??!!

Well, personally, and I don't know if anybody else sees it like this, I think that the fun in o/c'ing is, among other things, the fact that you accomplish it all by yourself!!!

I mean, if I could by this optimized chip, it would still be a normal chip to me, and therefor I would still try to o/c it, beyond the speed they had then o/c'ed it!!!

You see my point??? I think the fun is in doing it yourself!!!

Just my opinion!!

Pim

[oxOGradiusOxo]

Oh no! So with my Celeron 366@578, I'm stealing 212Mhz from Intel! Shame on me. If Intel would like for me to somehow send those extra clock cycles back to them, I will. I'll just run the processor backwards for about 3 months: uninstalling windows, uncracking Rc5 blocks, unrendering Q3 polygons, etc http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif Then I think the debt will have been repaid.

212Mhz. It's a big gain when I say it like that. Overclocking has come a long way in a short time. Especially considering getting 33Mhz extra was considered MAX.


[This message has been edited by oxOGradiusOxo (edited 05-27-2000).]

[mgordon99]

Let me use a car analogy here to illustrate a point. People buy cars and modify the engines and various other parts of the car for their own enjoyment, because they OWN the car.

So are you saying they should go to a dealer and have all of the modifications made, or buy a more expensive model? That they are stealing if they make performance modifications?

That’s all overclocking is my friends, it’s a performance modification. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[SysOpt]

Yeah Ultima I agree - was just tossing out a perspective. I too enjoy the process of overclocking just about anything (from cars to CPU's, etc.).

[Ultima]

I see your point, Sysopt!!!

But somehow you could be right ya know!!!

It could be that such chips would be selled and say mark a 500 and include a paper which states the speed it can make!!!

That WOULD make it the ideal chip for beginning o/c'ers!!!
It is then noted that it CAN run stabile on a certain speed, and then it is up to them to get it there!!!!

That indeed would be a great thing to practice on, if one is still wet behind the ears regarding o/c'ing, that is!!!!

So I have to agree with you on that one, Sysopt, I mean, if that is the way you meant it!!!!

LOL LOL LOL LOL

Pim

[narayan]

If we bought the 1Ghz chip, we would just overclock that one too!

[Missing the point]

I totally aggree with narayan on this, I buy as fast of a processor I can affors, then I overclock it. If we could all afford to buy P III 800, and overclock them to 1.1 GHz, we would, but since we cant, we go with the P III 600, and overclock it to 800 http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/biggrin.gif

[oblivion]

How many of you would stop OCing if intel and AMD forced a EULA that specifically prohibited OCing with thier chips?

[Ultima]

Hey Oblivion,

If ya mean that there would be a penalty on o/c'ing, I'd still do it I think!!!

I mean, how could they ever find out who clocks up their chips???
Some kind of software that can search the internet via windows and see if a chip is o/c'ed by some kind of chip on the cpu???

First of all, they already tried to pull off something a little similar, but it was a privacy issue, so that'll never work!!!

And even if it would, people would just o/c on the machine that is not linked to the net, provided they have a second system!!!

To quote a wise man:

Man will find a way!!!

I don't remember who said that, but it sounds cool I think!!!

Pim

[hd581]

Bah! This is a lost cause. I'm laughing too hard at the way my argument sounds. Not really much point arguing against o/c'ing on a site called System Optimization. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/biggrin.gif

But thanks for playing along, chip! Even if it did come off as highly sarcastic! LOL http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

One thing to note though, daveleau: Don't confuse immoral with illegal. Just b/c something can be done within the law doesn't mean it's right. Like a loophole that allows you to never have to pay taxes again. You might be able to clear yourself of charges in court if prosecuted, but certainly you owe the government for its services. Legal, but immoral.

[Szech]

I say no, and here's my analogy. When you buy something, it is intended for a certain purpose. When you buy a 366 Mhz processor, it's inteded to run at 366 Mhz. When you buy a hammer, they don't expect you to use it to say, tenderize meat, but if you do, then it's your choice, because you paid for it, and it's capable of doing it. If your 366 Celeron can run at 550, again, it's your choice and you paid for it. If you ruin it, then it's your fault because you knew you were risking it.

As for immoral, I think it would be funny to have someone go into confessional, "Father, I have sinned, I overclocked my processor to 850 Mhz." HA! http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/biggrin.gif

[tonym]

In most cases, the processor that you've purchased was NEVER intended to operate at the frequency that's stamped on it. Intel or AMD designs a core that hopefully will optimize tested part yields to let's say 750MHz. However, they sort the beejeesus out of these processors -- the one's that fail at 750 are tested at 700, if they don't pass here then 650, etc. Finally, except for functional failures, all uP's end up working at some frequency. Waste is eliminated, although profits aren't maximized.

And in some cases, because demand for a particular speed uP is high, the manufacturers will restamp a higher frequency CPU as a lower frequency device. Sounds odd, but it happens!

And sometimes, a part that is marked as a lower speed device was tested improperly, and operates at the full rated core frequency (in our example 750MHz). But it's sold as a frequency "sport" (special sort!!).

When you OC, you take advantage of the capability of the processor to do what it was really intended to do. You have to understand that when you do this that you void the manufacturer's warranty, BUT THAT'S IT!!

Immoral? Nope. Criminal? Nah. Opportunistic. Very much so! Fun? You betcha!!!!!

I did the same thing with my '67 Camaro. Overclocked the hell out of it with overbored pistons, performance cams, big-*** carbs, etc. GM never wanted to jail me for this offense!

And neither does Intel and AMD! In fact, OCing tends to sell more CPUs in the long run.

So enjoy, and do not feel guilty...


Tony

[oblivion]

I would not stop OCing just because it was a law.......I do or do not things based on my opinions and feelings,not based upon laws http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[daveleau]

With software, you agree to an End Users License Agreement which stipulates that you do not use the software on more than one machine. You do no such thing when you buy a CPU. Thus it is perfectly fine to overclock.