My view on software piracy

[FrozenLiquidity]

I think software piracy is a big no-no. I hate the people that pirate games and other software. Espically really good software. The company does not get as much money as it should and then come to making a sequel of the game so many people pirated, the find that they don't have enough money to do what they wanted to do so the sequel ends up being really lame. This is an example of what software piracy can do.

I have friends the pirate sofware. In my opinion, it's their problem, I will in no way get involved.

The only CD I ever got copied and used for an "illegal" purpose was the expansion set to Starcraft. I had bought the game and wanted to play it on my LAN, but nooo you had to have a CD for each computer, instead of wasing another 20-30 bucks I just had my fiend burn me a copy. Legally you can have a copy of a game CD as long as you don't distribute it. I have bough 2 copies of Half-Life so far, once for the game, which a friend lost, then i got a new copy, which is now cracked (The CD that is http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif ) now I have to go get another copy. Dang, at least the upside is I get one more CD key for internet use, which means as soon as I get a DSL I will have some major fun.
I am glad that companies have taken measures to prevent software piracy.

I think that all of us are pirates in one way or another. I mean, who actually deletes their MP3's within 24 hours of downloading them? This is a crime that most of us, Including me, are guilty of.

What's your view on software piracy?


FrozenLiquidity

One more thing, do you think that old games such as Wolfenstien 3D should be distributed illegally? Does anyone really care at this point?

Hehe, this post sorta sounds like a school essay. Anyway, thanks for your time!!!

[chipbgt]

My views (and a lot of others here) can been seen at :
http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/005938.html

[krusty the klown]

Hmmmmm.... This is one that can go on forever. Sure, piracy is crime, sure, most people have done it (ever recorded a film of TV and lent ti to a M8? copied a tape of someone??).

I do personally feel that certain companies are very greedy and charge exorbitant amounts for their goods. This makes piracy even more attractive.

To say that the companies are losing the amount of money through piracy that they actually tell us they're losing is wrong, IMO. They seize, say 1000 copies of Office 2000, then say that they have lost 1000*£300 ish. That is skcollob! They would not have sold that 1000 extra copies! Take the £5 pir8 playstation games sold at some market.... most of the people buying them are kids. Would those kids have walked round the corner to the games shop and shelled out £35 / game, if the market store had not been there? Errrr.... no.

I am not condoning piracy, it just really p!sses me off when these greedy multi-national giants try to sound so bloody hard-done-to! It's usually them that cry the most, but in fact it probably does them the most good 'cos it hits the little guy (record comp, software comp, etc.) hardest. And we all know what the big companies like...... no competition!

[FrozenLiquidity]

Good point Krusty!
But still, laws are laws...

Come'on, lets see some more views on software piracy! So start postin'!

FrozenLiquidity

[mgordon99]

I agree that it is illegal, but how can anyone stop it? I think stopping illegal software on the net, as well as MP3's, is impossible. For every one that is caught and shut down, another three probably pop up.

It brings to mind the point that you can't legislate morality, and you certainly can't legislate the Internet, at least not effectively. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[FrozenLiquidity]

I will have to agree with you on that one mgordon99.

For every one site shut down, at least three more pop up in its place.

And it would be virtually impossible to legislate the internet.

FrozenLiquidity

[orkboss]

I am not a fan of piracy. But I can see why there is a market for pirated software when microsoft charge soo much for there software.
But then they have the market to themselves. I hope linux does well.

I'm sure it would given more support from software developers.

[davey]

OK....piracy here goes..
it occurrs to me that the makers of all these high priced application programs y'know..Adobe....Macromedia..etc know exactly what they are doing when they put out full version save disabled....crackable by a one year old chimp demo's of their latest software..dont tell me they couldn't come up with better security than that.Software is no different from fashion...everyone looking to the next guy for style tips or the latest trendy software effect or catchword title..Flash...OOH...Flash...aah, or yeah Im using Fireworks dont y'now...that's human nature and these people know that if their software demo is easy to crack it's going to spread like wildfire...viva la net revolution...you couldn't pay for better advertising, so to hear them whimper and moan about being ripped off....come on guys....BUSTED!!! I think more people are starting to cotton on to their duplicitous hypochrasy at last.I know the guy's who write the software work hard and I respect that..but a lot of people work a LOT harder for a lot LESS money for their ENTIRE lives so let's not pretend these guy's are suffering. it also seems to me the most artistic people are the ones with the least money. It's no different with the music Software....trendy....!!no way can the people who devote so much of their life to creating great art afford to shell out hundreds of pounds for one bit of software,it took me an eternity to scrape up the cash for my PC and I'll be damned if Im going to slave another few years so I can afford the software to actually use the **** thing, as for the great, MP3 killing music,dillema ,come off it ,as mentioned earlier in the thread, Everybody but Everybody is guilty of pirating radio shows tv shows video cassettes cd's vinyl etc and if not why not!!?? your only making your own life less rounded by not collecting and appreciating art and media...live for now, dont suffer deprivation for people who are in a more priviledged position

[oblivion]

I will have to agree with davey in the respect that software companys could make thier product much more secure........and I agree with him on the fact that the product being more easily obtained can and will create more of an actual demand for the product,leading to higher sales then would have been realized before. For example how many of you have actually paid for winzip? I would bet that no more then 5% out of you have(meaning the average winzip user)........but I would also bet that winzip has made alot of money selling it...............why you may ask......I would further wager that winzip would not have made nearly as much money as they have made if it was protected with any kind of security.
Look at windows whatever for example,it has virtually no copy protection at all......it could have the ability to have massive amounts of it incredibly difficult to even make a backup of.......but it does not. Gee I wonder why.....................if windows was not so easy to copy I am sure alot of users(the tweeker kind)would be more apt to try linux or beos and give that a go.....and if that started happening alot,it would make better support for beos and linux a reality,further causeing more and more users to make a switch.........I have noticed that almost every OCer with some like minded friends and almost everyone with a burner uses "copied" windows and other so called pirated software..................butI have also noticed that almost every beos or linux user ends up actually buying the software and using it........even among c00l w4r37 d00d7 it is normal to buy beos and other like OSes..........I do not feel that M$ has been a fairly playing company,niether does the DOJ.....now I am not saying that this gives me a legal right to use thier pirated software......................but I do not care about legality in my personal life(I do not mean with everything,I am saying that my own morals guide me more US law does)but I care more for morality........now I am not saying that I do not buy my own OSes or that I never buy games either,I have already stated that I spend plenty on software........I am just giving a few thoughts and perspective here..........just thinking out loud.............that is what this forum is for,right?

[Warthog]

A friend of mine wanted to copy Rogue Spear. I said no because I paid 40 dollars out of my own pocket and I'm not gonna let him get it for free.

What about not actually burning the game to another CD? I mean, copying the contents of the cd to the hd and installing it from there. OR letting the friend borrow the cd, install the game and get a "no cd" patch for it? Just throwing some ideas out there. Personally, I don't agree with any sort of copying.

And that's my opinion on the matter. http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

Warthog

[FrozenLiquidity]

I have to agree with you Warthog, when I buy all the games with my hard-earned money, and then I see some of my friends downloading or burning the games and getting them free, it make me furious!!

I don't see why they have to do that, where are there morals?

I turn down anyone who asks if they can borrow a CD and burn it or use a No-CD crack on it. I paid for so only I should have the fun of playing it! heh heh.

Big companies like Microsoft and Adobe are different in a way. They already have tons of money from selling their software. All the illegal distribution of Adobes' (for example) software won't even make a dent in the company's profits. (although I am still agaist illegal distribution of their products!)

But its the small software companies that get the shaft. They need all the money they can get to further the development of their software. Not only is is illegal, but is down right foolish to illegally obtain software produced by this company.

If you keep on doing this, the company will not be able to make a sequel for their "Game of the Year" program, and that would upset many people.

Of course, massive amounts of pirating must happen to lead to this consequence. But don't be a fool, go buy the software yourself and help the company out!

FrozenLiquidity

[hai]

What's the point of this topic?

Everyone knows speeding illegal. Everyone is speeding.

[FrozenLiquidity]

hai, if you don't have anything good to contribute to this discussion, then don't bother contributing at all.

FrozenLiquidity

[mgordon99]

Robbing banks is illegal, everyone is not robbing banks.

[Ed_S]

I'm against piracy, but it's definately understandable. The prices are the cause, IMO.
These software companies' market games that appeal to the young - then price them out of reach of their audience! They should price low & go for high sales volume instead. After all, their investment is in R & D, the actual product production is cheap!

Most of this piracy talk has been about games & music, but what about apps & utils? I hate piracy as a rule, but there's high-priced stuff that I might use once a year or so. Can't justify buying it!! Like games, I think they'd be better off to lower the price & go for volume.

[FrozenLiquidity]

LOL mgordon99!
Good one! http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/biggrin.gif

FrozenLiquidity

[hai]

The difference between robbing a bank and pirating a software is:

Most people think robbing a bank causing major loss to others while a large amount of people think pirating causing tiny loss to software companies.

There're plenty of debates on every forums regarding to why pirating doesn't make that much damage as some software companies claimed and why people insist to pirate.

FrozenLiquidity:

If you are an elitist who thinks own moralities are higher than others, there's no point to be furious for your friends' activities. You are paying for being a elitist. Wasn't Jesus Christ nailed on the cross?

People who participate in pirating are mainly those have "more time than money". They wouldn't purchase those pricy software afterall because they can't afford. When they get a good job and earn big money, they will come back to purchase the new versions of those software they pirated before, just because they get used to them.

Nonetheless, pirating will last near forever till the extinction of software copyright in a remote future.

I can't see this thread having any hope to convince the minds of both sides. It's the way of the life.

[narayan]

http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/006483.html ask yourself...........

[FrozenLiquidity]

Was Jesus Christ nailed to the cross, I don't know, I'm an atheiest, I don't believe in god.

Hehe, my friend who pirates software all the time makes more money than I do. He just doesn't spend it wisely.

FrozenLiquidity

[narayan]

Maybe so, but what he is doing is illegal.

[FrozenLiquidity]

Yes, what he is doing is illegal, and I stated that in the beginning.

FrozenLiquidity

[narayan]

http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[oblivion]

Take my little cousin for example,he is 12 years old and his father is a single parent of two......he is an electrician and owns his house.................he does not have alot of money at all............enough to feed and clothe the family......and enough to occasionally fix up the house(the house was not that nice when he bought it,trust me)...............jason(my cousin) gets only these chances to get new video games....christmas......birthday..............and the very rare times he can afford one through his rare chances at earning money around the house doing chores........I have absolutely no problem "burning" him whatever he wants at any time...........I would feel sorry for the kid if his father was not such a great and kind man............I feel like he should have every right to play any game that I have and I do not give a ratts *** about "the law" when it comes to things like this........if people did not break laws we as a people would be in a bad situation.

narayan,I am just curious........if you sold a 36inch TV you owned to a neighbor for 500$.....would you pay taxes on it at the end of the year? Not doing so is illegal and breaking "the law". Just a thought.

[hai]

Is that tax-able threshold amount $600 per year?

Well, I just wonder if someone here never commit speeding, especially on those freeways in where everyone is practicing the rule "It's okay to drive 5 miles over the limit"..

[This message has been edited by hai (edited 05-23-2000).]

[narayan]

It is the desire inherent to man to want new and better things. It is this desire that builds our economy and strengthens our society. To want something and to save up for it to buy is commendable. To take something w/o paying is...well....
http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

[GlobalNameSpace]

It was in another forum but i couldn't find it. The next level of the Napster idea . . . http://freenet.sourceforge.net/
If we can hold this civilization together till most "WORK" is done by machines and humans can enjoy just persuing leasure then it would be fun. (TO BE A PIRATE) ..

Also, most of the copying of software that I've seen happens when the program would normally be too expensive for the person to buy. It's always much nicer to have a registered version (well, maybe not when you still have to pay for support) but sometimes it not finacially possible .... and some of these programs once you know how to use them can help you get a better paying job so you can buy your own copy. Hmmm, sounds almost like the voice of experience.

[bobcat]

Personal experience too, but, what of the person who cannot afford any cool product, like HDTV. He was never going to buy it because it is too expensive. Does that mean he can take it?

[GlobalNameSpace]

to-shey

[oblivion]

I look at it like this......I buy games when I have the money to,I do make copys for all of my friends when and if they ask,and alot of my friends when we trade will just "throw in" a copy of whatever.....usually without even telling me they are going to...........to me it is no big deal and that is it........I do buy alot of games...and the games I do buy I usually end up playing all the time............the games I have "backups" of usually never get played by me. Windows is a whole different story.......................

I would be willing to bet massive amounts of money that everyone from poor people to judges to lawyers to even members of the BSA and RIAA have and do make copys "of friends tapes" or even record movies that they rent.......because it is not like physically stealing an object(I am sure a certain few will jump in here and tell me how I am wrong,but this is my opinion so it is not wrong)most people do not feel bad about it.

And another thing is that I would much rather pirate any type of software then "MP3's"....that is because when you pirate software(there are exceptions of course)you are hurting a large corperation,and not an individual(see exceptions)............I do not listen to really large music bands that make millions,so I try to buy my music when and if I can find it to support the local scene(I listen to DJ's that I have seen perform alot,and they in alot of cases do not sign on to a huge record label,in fact none that I respect do).....okok I used to be a huge grateful dead fan....and I have tons of thier bootlegs.....but guess what? greatful dead has always "unofficially" supported bootlegs.

Blah Blah Blah I guess I could go on forever but I will not,but I can tell you one thing.............if I ever made some "backups" of windows whatever,for my friends to use on thier computer....................I would not feel bad about it,or like I just had "screwed microsoft"...........but I would feel bad for recording some tapes of a good local DJ when I really need to buy his album for 7-8$(yes local DJs have good prices) and support him directly.


I was wondering if you are allower to have two boxes playing with the same cd key in halflife online.........that is because my little cousin has installed the game on his box(my copy and my key) and we have played online many many times together.



[This message has been edited by oblivion (edited 05-23-2000).]

[mgordon99]

Most people think robbing a bank causing major loss to others while a large amount of people think pirating causing tiny loss to software companies.

Major loss to others?! Are we talking about the same banks here? The banks that pay you a measley 4% (if your lucky) on your money, and go and invest the same money and make 25% to 75%!

Robbing a bank is certainly more similar to software piracy than speeding is.

No, I am not approving of robbing banks, just trying to make a point.

[hai]

Robbing a bank is certainly more similar to software piracy than speeding is.

I see no point why they are similar.

Do you need me telling you how many people are killed worldwide for speeding every year? Lemme kill you in a car accident and then "compensate" you with all money in the world, is that a deal?

You certainly care less of your own life and others lives than money.

LOL

[mgordon99]

So what is your point? People die from speeding? So it is akin to software piracy?

Let's get back to the issue here which is software piracy. My point is this, don't try to read more into it:

Software piracy = stealing
Robbing banks = stealing
Speeding = exceeding posted speed limit

[oblivion]

speeding=putting other peoples lives in danger........not just "exceeding the posted speed limit"

It is funny hop some people tend to see things differently huh?


So when you speed you put yourself in danger..........and other poeples lives in danger........when you pairate software.............you uh put others peoples lives in danger too,right? which is worse? I ask you guys that.


[This message has been edited by oblivion (edited 05-24-2000).]

[FrozenLiquidity]

Okay, okay, lets get back on topic shall we?

Software Piracy is Software Piracy
Robbing a Bank is Robbing a Bank
Speeding is Speeding

The only thing that these have in common is that if you do it, you're breaking the law. In other words, all of those activites are Illegal. Duh!

Now lets stay on the topic of software piracy...

http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif

FrozenLiquidity

[oblivion]

I just think that some people see it differently that is all,speeding can and does kill people every year,and piracy can and does cost companys large amounts every year(or they lose money rather).A very good friend of mine was killed by a speeding motorist,he was not even speeding that much over the speed limit,it just so happened that
the roads was very curvy...........I guess what I am trying to say here is that speeding is no different then any other crime in a sense and it is ridiculous to compoare the two(piracy and speeding).But they are both crimes that very many people which many of them I am sure are good people commit...............usually good people do not rob banks.

Hey I was trying to put software piracy into perspective..........I do not think I was being OT.

[This message has been edited by oblivion (edited 05-24-2000).]

[bobcat]

It is done because it can be done and it appears that the consequences are not that bad. I wonder if attitudes would change if the ability to catch people was some where in the 95% and the punishment would be...off with your hand. How many people would do it then?

You can justify anything you want...doesn't make it right.

And just to answer the "everyone speeds"... We only do that because the police are under manned. Imagine if all it would take is unmarked cars having to drive in traffic taking pictures of your car and License Plate. Didn't have to pull you over and write a ticket. It just comes in the mail. How many of these would it take before one would stop. No court. No points.

Sorry, off the subject.

[mgordon99]

speeding=putting other peoples lives in danger........not just "exceeding the posted speed limit"

driving too slow also = putting other peoples lives in danger
driving drunk = putting other peoples lives in danger
old people driving = putting other peoples lives in danger

jesus, my whole point was that comparing speeding to software piracy is not a good comparison, end of discussion.

[davey]

I cant really understand the comparison between robbing a bank or stealing someone's property and software piracy..if you rob a bank or steal from someone you are physically depriving someone somewhere, if you copy software you can't afford or have no intention of buying surely you are just spawning another copy of something not taking anything away from anyone..
anyway..it's good to see some full on discussion and i always respect others opinions even if i dont agree with them

[FrozenLiquidity]

Hey Oblivion, sorry to hear about that, but...
Your friend could have been killed even if the other guy wasn't speeding. Speeding just greatly increases the possibility that things like that will happen.

Hehe, Now I'm off topic, oops http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/wink.gif

I wasn't saying that you were off topic Oblivion, I was just saying that in general, this discussion had shifted from Views on Software Piracy, to how software piracy relates to robbing banks and speeding.

heh heh.

How many of you even know the consequences of pirating software? I don't think many of us know the exact punishment(it varies) for this crime. I mean there are very few people out there that are acually enforcing it. Instead, software companies have to come up with their own ways of ensuring that their software cannot be replicated illegally.

bobcat, you are right, two wrongs don't make a right, but is the first wrong really necessary?
My friends pirate software so they can spend their money on something else. They shouldn't pirate software for any reason, and especially not just so hey can save a few bucks.

mgordon99, Your point is valid and I agree with you, it may be the end of that discussion, but NOT the end of MY discussion.
http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/biggrin.gif
You can't compare software piracy to anything, it's in a category of it's own.

FrozenLiquidity

[FrozenLiquidity]

So true Warthog!

FrozenLiquidity

[Warthog]

Getting a bit extreme, many software burners together CAN ruin someones life. Say it is a very small company who is now suffering from profit loss because of "stolen" software. Some employees may be laid off to compensate for the lost revenue.

Just putting it in the big picture.... http://sysopt.earthweb.com/forum/smile.gif

Warthog

[krusty the klown]

Personally, I'd rather see kids buying £5 pir8 disks from the 'dodgy geezer on the corner' than stealing originals from shops, cos they sure as hell aren't going to pay £35 for the latest playstation game....

.... although both are wrong.... and if you buy a pir8 disk, you don't know what sort of person you're giving the money to, ot what they intend to use the money for (so it may be just feeding their kids and family, but..?).

I don't have a problem with individuals having a copy of, say MS Orifice that they borrowed from a m8. Before I get flamed, I'm not saying it's right, or that I condone it. I'm saying that I really don't give a toss what people do in the privacy of their own home. I'm neither a nosey parker, nor a curtain-twitcher and I h8 both types of people.

Businesses, however, don't have an excuse for this. Whilst it is easy to order one disk and distribute it round the department and save a few thousand, proper costings should take into account the cost of software, not just the PC. If they get screwed, it's their tough luck and I don't have much sympathy.

[hai]

many software burners together CAN ruin someones life.

I feel this reference not very good. There are way too many methods to "Ruin someones life".

Say, if you invent a better product and defeat your competitors. Aren't there many peoples' lives ruined by your product? If someone commits suicide for unemployment, isn't that also your fault? Are you going to hell after death for that? Or you try to forgive yourself by excuses like "That's the business?"

I doubt how many programmers REALLY got hurt by piracy.

On the other hand, there were 3,600 people killed by car accident in just Texas State, 1998. 1/3 of them were associated with alcohol, 1/4 were associsted with speeding. You add up the death number by 50 states and other countries.

SEVERAL TENS OF THOUSAND PEOPLE ARE KILLED EVERY YEAR WORLDWIDE BY RECKLESS DRIVING BEHAVIORS.

Now, many people think speeding a "tiny" thing, "nothing serious".

Yes, this is off-topic. My point is that our attitudes decide our behaviors.

Many people don't feel piracy too bad because they don't think it causing horrible result. Just like how people treat speeding, drinking and driving, not wearing safety belts, etc.


[This message has been edited by hai (edited 05-26-2000).]

[hd581]

Software piracy: yes it's illegal, yes it's wrong, but it's not the biggest problem facing the world today.