The Cuban Gov attacked US citizens!

[narayan]

Just saw on Foxnews that the Cuban's embassy or something wasbeing protested by people when Cuban Police came out of the bldg and attacked the crowd. Secret Service and the Police witnessed the event. This is outrageous and I am extremely upset that representatives of a foreign government attacked the people of the US on US soil.

[jad1097]

I have not seen that yet.
But federal agents rushed the house and took Elian because the family would not give him up.

[Apostle 83]

Well, the U.S. and Cuban government attacked U.S. Citizens.

Anyone see that pic of a fed agent w/an mp5 rippin Elian from that fishermans arms in a closet? Or how about them taking elian away from the house in the middle of the night, all the kid had on was a t and boxers... how about the threats against people sleeping on couches?

Reno, go to the pound.

Waco, Ruby, hmmmm, at least they didn't kill n e one this time.

[chipbgt]

Boy this is really sad. The best interests of this kid flew out the window long ago.

Here is a slide show from the new york times. Look at the terror in this kids face! Why are we bowing to castro? Reno, you suck.
http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/late/22cuba-boy-pix.1.html


[This message has been edited by chipbgt (edited 04-22-2000).]

[hd581]

I'm not really taking sides on this issue. On one hand he's here against US law. On the other, we have a duty to grant asylum to those seeking it, and he certainly look REAL happy here. Regardless, whichever they're leaning towards, they should do it quickly, and not drag it out. So we won't have 3 active posts on the same subject...

[jad1097]

There was no other option. THey had to go in with force to resolve this.

[Snuffy!]

I live in Australia, and all over the news all the time is this fuss over one kid, the amount of fus being made over this one kid is absolutely phenomonal, i can't get over it. Americans are sooo wierd. In my country, John Howard would have just shipped him out pronto http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[raider rick]

Only one good thing will come out of this-George W's a lock to be living in the White House in Jan. 2001!! hehe

[jad1097]

Let's hope not!

[Dominus]

The fact that the emotional pain and suffering of a small boy and his father is being used for entertainment and political gains sickens me.

There is no good side to this. If this where handled properly, then the general public wouldn't even know this custody battle existed. But since this is a slow news year, and elections are coming up soon, this is being exploited to it's fullest. The newscasters get to add another line to their resume, and the politicians get to show how just and moral they are by condemning the actions of the INS. But where were their morals when a small child was taken from his home at gunpoint?

I can't stand this sort of ****. I'm sick of the whole affair. CNN never shuts up about it. Why wasn't this handled just like any other refugee case?

[This message has been edited by Dominus (edited 04-22-2000).]

[SysOpt]

It is very rediculous. The wellbeing of the kid is most important - whether that be with his father or in the U.S. is not really a matter for the entire U.S. media and government to decide. A handful of relatives could have met with some child psychologists and a couple govt officials or something and figured it out in a few days without turning it into a major fiasco. And all of these cuban americans rising up in protest? please... It's not a victory for americans to seize the kid - his mom BROUGHT HIM HERE.

[akaBruno]

Because there were too many posts on the same subject, I requested mine be removed. I've copied and pasted it once already today, so here it is again. posted 04-22-2000 08:48 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted 04-22-2000 08:04 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While I don't support the Castro regime,I do believe that Elien belongs w/ his Father. After all the man's ex-wife did kidnap the child and put his life in great danger, coming to this country.
I just don't understand the obstinacy of the family in Miami. This could have been avoided, had they been reasonable.
Now, let's hope the courts get this thing moving, and off the front pages.

I would just like to add,
To Snuffy:

Isn't that the attitude that populated Austrailia, during it's early days as a colony?

No offense intended. Just an observation.

Bruno


[This message has been edited by akaBruno (edited 04-22-2000).]

[akaBruno]

Forgive me, but this question has to be asked.
Had those people so vehemently protesting on the streets of Miami, been so holier than thou on the streets of Havana, would we even be asking these questions?
The fight is not here. It's in Cuba.
That's Life , and that's been life in Cuba for the last 50 f'n years.
Live w/ it or go Home and change it.
Bruno

[jad1097]

Why are they waving Cuban flags? I thought they were American. I they want to wave a Cuban falg they can take there ***** back there since they love Cuba enough to still wave their flag!

[Apostle 83]

The only cubans I saw waving flags were 'waving' them through fires getting fuled by burning tires...

[OuTpaTienT]

I must say, the Cubans aren't gonna gain any support by burning American flags. I understand they're protesting America's actions, but I don't think Janet Reno and her jack-booted thugs are any more American than Fidel.

But as Apostle said, at least they didn't kill anyone this time.

There has been a pic of Elian and father hugging that people are claiming is a doctored picture. It seems Elian has a different haircut and some baby teeth missing that shouldn't be. Can anyone verify this?

[alondra]

In my opinion, todays action was the result of months of non cooperation by the relatives. should have happened months ago.
the following should happen
1 the boy and his father should be allowed to return home.
2 we should stop the embargo, it does no harm to Castro, only to the people of Cuba.
3 the INS should go thru the footage of all these protests and law breakers should be deported.

[narayan]

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

[tonym]

I now break my self-imposed moratorium on discussing Elian.

I have some simple questions:

#1 What in the world is Donato Darymple (the fisherman rescuer) doing at the Gonzales home at 5:15 in the morning?

#2 What photographer was there, waiting for the Feds to stop by and snatch the kid? BTW, those photos were very nicely done, no motion artifacts or blurriness. A little media grease for the wheels??

#3 How come Marylesis (whatever) and Donato the fisherman can get a news conference in Washington DC and flippin' Earth Day (you know, a day for the entire EARTH!) has to take a back seat?

#4 How come I've seen news footage of "pro-father" protesters getting "roughed-up" by these peace loving SOBs in little (itsy-bitsy) Havana??

I'm sorry but we as a nation have much bigger fish to fry than worrying about this one kid who, by the way, has been re-united with his father. Something that should have happened weeks ago. I don't think there is a politician or a newsperson in the country that has the "cohones", metaphorically-speaking, to tell the "family" to go pound sand. The family obviously doesn't care for the kid as much as they loathe Castro -- this isn't a bad thing to hate this idiot, but let's not misplace our emotions here, folks. And the media in an attempt to "outscoop" each other is sinking to a level far lower than I ever imagined that it could.

OKAY, if no one else is going to say it, I'm going to:

Enough is enough. Let the boy have his life with his father. I you want to effect change in Cuba, don't use the child as a tool of your hatred. And don't show me pictures of the Feds "ripping" the child from the "relatives" (I believe that I only saw the Kato Kaelin look-alike fisherman holding the kid). You forced this show by your "negotiations". Just who the hell do you think you are, anyways?? Someone REAL special?? I'm here to tell you that you're no more special than anyone else, all savvy media appearances and lawyers aside.

Well, when all this is said and done, you (the Gonzales clan) should get a giant bill (invoice) for all the time and BS that you've put us all through.

And to you lawmakers (more rightly put politicians) who propose legislation geared specifically towards Elian: There are 264 million of us out here, with problems and concerns that affect/effect a large percentage of us (like poverty, defense, taxes, etc.). This "Elian thing" affects 1 in 264,000,000 or 0.4 micro-percent (Yup, 4 preceeded by 6 zeros) of us, and to have you even consider this is a slap in the face to all the rest of the American citizens (BTW, Elian is an alien!) that work so hard and lead honest, productive lives. Pass legislation that will help them, perhaps inspired legislation that will help 10 or more percent of the populous, like the poor or the medically uninsured! My advice is forget the politicaly expedient and put this whole issue behind you and get on with serving us (US)!!!

And to Elian and his dad -- may you have a long and happy life together, and may your "relatives" find peace and contentment hating Castro without a 6 yr. old hostage!

Tony

[narayan]

I will try to answer your questions.
#1. Who knows, It's a free country (supposedly)
#2. The family did have cameras in the house, including video, but the cameramen were forced to the ground when the house was entered, from what I understand.
#3. Earth Day is nothing. Especially when the federal government storms a house in a Gestapo-type raid. Only after the raid did a warrant surface (sneaky, eh?) A warrnant is not applicable. A warrnat is used for search and seisure, and for making arrests. So the talk of a warrnat talk is a distraction

As far as bigger fish to fry, freedom is the biggest fish to fry.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



[This message has been edited by narayan (edited 04-24-2000).]

[tonym]

narayan,

Incorrect. The Gestapo were a tool of an inhumane dictatorship. They did not negotiate, they did not let things escalate to a point of ridiculousness. They acted and there were no consequences. History shows that the Gestapo would have acted upon the guilty as well as the innocent...with no survivors remaining...no press to call them "Gestapo" and certainly no witnesses left alive. Only whispers of the oppressed and fear of repression. State-sponsored terrorism.

Now, I'm not the biggest supporter of our government, but I have to say that the response to the whole affair was more measured than what you'd find in other countries. Not one shot fired, not one person injured...no roughing up from the INS side.

What did you think the agents would be carrying to this scene. Daisies?? If you were one of the agents that had to jump out of the van I'll be you'd have requisitioned a flak-jacket and an UZi too! There were retrenched relatives and a mob outside that roughs up those who have a differing view. And a mayor of the city that gave the grren light to mob violence! Yup, there were automatic weapons in the agent's hands, but if you look closely at the pictures, nary a finger on a trigger. The Gestapo would have shot first and questioned any survivors later. And BTW, they did have a warrant, signed by a judge...Amendment IV is satisifed in this case!

And "It's a free country..." still doesn't answer the fisherman's presence. Somethings "fishy". No pun intended! This whole situation is one of those things that make you go "hmmmmmmmmm".

And you are right. It IS a free country. And just as much as Elian (even though he is an alien) and the "relatives" have rights, so does Juan-Miguel, if you follow the logic. He has the right of custody of HIS son. No matter how many Blessed Virgins the relatives see in their corn flakes or how many signs they dream up to support their view. The father is the custodial parent and no one else.

And we are all still free, no impact has been made on our collective rights, freedoms and liberites. And Elian is *free* to be with his father, and he is *free* from undue negative influence from the "relatives" -- and we're almost *free* from the monopolization of this topic in all the various forms of media!

Please don't take this personally...I am a libertarian, but I also realize that we must be first and foremost a nation of laws. And the laws must be reasonable and just. And we should be accorded as many freedoms as we desire. But with our freedom comes certain responsibilities. It's time for these folks to pony up to their responsibilities and if they REALLY want custody of the child, fight for it from a different position -- in the passenger's seat.


TM

[SysOpt]

Lets keep this discussion to one thread at most:

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/005771.html