Chicken vs. The Egg, no holds barred grudge match

[800XL]

Here is my answer. Care to refute or support?

The egg is a potential chicken. Without a model of what a chicken is, the potential of a chicken cannot exist. The chicken, being a fully real chicken needs no model to exist. The reality of a chicken must exist before a potential chicken can exist. Reality precedes potentiality. The chicken must come before the egg.

[steves]

Ah but to become a potential Chicken the egg needed a sperm...

No problem - God knew that when he got round to creating us we would develop a taste for eggy bread, fried eggs etc. Therefore he created the chicken (first) to supply us eggs, then he realised that eggs could be used for reproduction (it worked with reptiles so why not use it for birds).

Of course the Chicken and Egg debate anly really intrests atheists, so I'd better keep out of it from now on.

Should we really be debating this here - I'm off to see if anyone needs help.

[Bonehead]

I'm god and I don't now what you talking about.

[800XL]

Well, because I like a debate even if it with myself, I will offer a counter arguement.

As the chicken evolved from whatever manner of beast it was before it was a chicken, each passing generation produced an egg which in turn produced the next step in the chain of the evolution. So when the first genetic material that could be conclusively called a chicken came into being, it was contained in an egg that was produced by something that was not "technically" a chicken. Which would mean the egg would have had to come first.

Now I can be right, and wrong. I think I'll nip off now and drink a little no-tea with my tea, and look out the open/closed windowshades...

[MadMax]

If the Egg is = to Breakfast
and the Chicken is = to Dinner

Then the egg came first (In the A.M)

This is a basic tenet of non-cholestorol geometry and droolean mathematics.

[Bazango]

An egg is also a chicken. The distinction is artificial. The chicken spends a part of its life as an egg. In the history of chickens, no one moment could be described as the instantaneous transformation from something that is not a chicken into something that is.

Molecular biology informs the issue, reproduction is a genetic attribute. Part of the genetic code is materially occupied with differentiating the fertilized egg into a mature organism. Even at the genetic level there could not be a sudden transformation from a non egg laying creature into one that is. Chickens and eggs have always come together, one could not come before the other.

[Bleeding Edge]

Therefor, the better explanation is the universe as well as Egg and Chicken is a apparition. It came to be, as it is, with fossils, eggs, chickens and us.

[pray59]

Simple...CHICKEN FIRST!

Bird "A" squeezes out an egg...
Bird "B" spooges all over it...
Bird "C" first chicken pops out of an "A" egg sporting A+B=C genes http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[Bazango]

The egg AND the sperm (spooge) are that part of the chicken differentiated for reproduction. It is parent tissue even though we call the female differentiation an egg. It is still chicken. When sperm and egg unite and fuse genetic material, they become a new chicken in the form of an egg.

Experience suggests that the universe did not come into being all at once. Change in time is the best fundamental characterization of cosmology.

[socalgal]

until/unless science can produce conclusive evidence/information, I will go with this:

Genesis 2:20 "...And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life life, and fowl..."

or you can always go with the genetic-chemical lava pool theory... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif




[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 05-13-99).]

[Bleeding Edge]

this place be an apparition, i tell you.

[Bazango]

GENETIC MATERIAL! GENETIC MATERIAL! I win.

[jeana]

Well, I just couldn't resist replying to this thread!

Whatever the origin of life or the universe, eggs have been around a long time before chickens (insect eggs, fish eggs, mollusk eggs, reptile eggs, amphibian eggs...)

And, I imagine that the first "chicken", as the mutant offspring of two nonchicken parents, would have first appeared as a wee embryo stored in an egg.

So I agree with 800XL's later post. Egg first, egg first!

This explanation works only if you believe that evolution has occurred since the beginning of life, of course. There are entire newsgroups and sites-- heck, entire religious groups! -- dedicated to debating THAT, though, so if we decide to fight our way through that issue, this thread is going to be way longer than "Wotcha got?"

By the way, the "spooging" goes on before the hen lays the egg... didn't your parents tell you about the birds and bees, eh? Hum, don't reply to that question, it was just a joke!

[This message has been edited by jeana (edited 05-14-99).]

[Bazango]

I stand by my claim that an egg is also a chicken, that the distinction is artificial. The question is not completely serious, but we learn when we play.

[CMonster]

Neither the egg nor the chicken are real. They are energy that has taken the illusion of matter by the mind of the one some call God.

They are as I am, figments of your active imagination.

Stop dreaming us and we will go away.

You are IT, the it-all, the know-it-all - and when you made me you swore me to secercy - but even though you NOW know..just as you have always known... yet you will not believe me - you refuse to acknoledge the fact that you are the only one until the game has played out and you are once again confronted with yourself. and I knew that fact so I wasn't breaking the agreement we had...not really.

got your hip boots out yet? the metaphysical malarky AKA- $4!7 is getting a little deep..

Just goofing around

[dawgtuff]

The "egg" had to be layed by a chicken,however,was the chicken really a chicken?It could of been another animal that cross bred with another that created the chicken species!....Maybe an ancestor of the dinosaurs.......Hummmm.

[Bleeding Edge]

"The Chicken or the Egg."
It can't be.

"The 'sperm and egg' or human,"
this can't be either.

I tell you confidently, we are an apparition.
How else can this be.

[MAGIC 8-BALL and THE ELF]

As I have said, I watched God evolve the "chicken". On my world, we have something like it called (approximately) a grellak. Let me add, that God evolved my planet and its occupants too, just much earlier than yours and you.

The real question is not which came first, but whether you can accept the reality of other occupied worlds, more ancient beings, and ultimately the existence of God. - 8-Ball

I am a simple, young earthling. I must defer to the Old One. I never have found him to err. - Elf

[ANTONIO E GUERRA]

Have you considered the philosophical implications of the dilemma of the chicken and the egg for a theory of causality? This dilemma will make us think about time travel at a warp speed. In addition, think about this egg and chicken traveling in a machine at the speed of light. Imagine this, if this chicken travels at the speed of light we might be able to eat the same chicken at breakfast and lunch; then, at night, we might have it as an egg for dinner. Vulcanian logic, no?

[socalgal]

Antonio ~ how would you catch chicken/egg flying thru time warp space so you could eat it? ahahahhah but this is crazy fun.

[ANTONIO E GUERRA]

Good question! That is the last episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. I guess the best answer is: You can catch it if you are traveling in a machine faster than the speed of light(like the new Pentium 3-600 with an Abit motherboard)and a frying pan to cook that egg.

[This message has been edited by ANTONIO E GUERRA (edited 05-15-99).]

[Roy]

Lets overclock the P3-600 to 690 and cook the egg on the heatsink. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif