the upcoming Microsoft trial whats your thoughts ??

[skywalker[TSG]]

in 1 hour from now
microsoft will be judged by the supreme court the charges are that they have tried to kill of their competitiors ie netscape http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

whats your opinion about this ?

[wyvrn]

Microsoft used unscrupulous business tactics and got caught. Name me a company that does not do the same thing http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif I think they were made an example of and rightfully so because they got so successful they grabbed the limelight. But I think it sends a good message that the government will not put up with virtual monopolies.

[skywalker[TSG]]

ya i totaly agree

im gona be glued to CNN and watch this unfold

its about time somebody bit bills ***

ok i dont hate windows or anything
i just feel that the product is not worth the price they are charging

[wyvrn]

Me neither. With a little more competition, their prices would fall substantially.

[grandslammer]

You know, I prefer Netscape for browsing, except for one thing. I LOVE FULL-SCREEN BROWSERS! Just F11 when you're in I.E. and Baddea-boom, badda-bing! full screen! Now, if netscape would do that, I'd never use I.E. again.

But, you can run WinLite, and remove all references to I.E. But, you have to butcher your OS, then install another browser. Too much trouble for the average user, huh...

I don't know, if you use IE, the integration with windoze is nice. I mean, you can go directly from nearly any window in the os to a web site BOOM! you're there.

I mean, I AM NO ADVOCATE OF BILLY G, but think about it, they're selling a proprietary system. They include their own browser, (in the guise of) making it easier for you to use... You tell me? What do you theenk?

Like I said, I am no fan of Gates or MS, I think they're too big, and release "new" products waaay too early, before they have 1/10th of the bugs out.

Oh well, enough of my useless ranting.

Later...

M

[skywalker[TSG]]

well first off
i think its good of microsoft to include IE in winXXXX
i mean if u want (and u do) another browser u just install it

but some people are so ignorant that they dont know how to install a new browser

[Dominus]

I hope and pray to whatever gods/goddesses there may be that they are forced to open the source code to their Windows OSes. Just imagine how that woud benefit the computer industry!! Sure, it'd probably crash the stockmarket, but in a few years, once people get time to go through the code, we'll see true innovations and competiton in the operating system market, yet still have cross-platform compatability.

If they do anything else to Microsoft, just give them 2 years, and they'll be back to their old selves again. Even a breakup won't mean squat.

[SysOpt]

Latest news on the findings released 5 minutes ago, on SysOpt's home page.

[Warthog]

Yeah that's about right.....a few years to go through...how many millions of lines of code?

Anyways, I think competition would do the software economy some good but I don't want to see the demise of this company.

I hope the Supreme Court makes a honest decision.

Just my humble opinion...

Warthog

[BBA]

Hmmm.....


MS has a monopoly on Windows. They can put anything in it they want. They made it in the first place! Is that wrong?

No, and thats the way I see it.

This whole case is about nothing but political contribution...trust me! Anytime Clinton and his DOJ team do anything, follow the money!

I think the DOJ ruling is based more on personal conviction, desire and deep seated hatred for hard work and success than fact. The liberal govt wants to make sure that the money gets spread everywhere, especially in their own pockets! MS just wasn't contributing to that cause...big mistake...I mean, just how can someone think they can have the most successful company while at the same time NOT give money to politicians??? Silly MS. I don't know what got into their heads.

Gee...If I build a car, and I put my radio in it, can Pioneer sue me with the governments backing? Sure, as long as I havent given money to the liar in chief.

Funny the one point that the court did rule on is that MS did not force any OEM to use their products exclusively or at all! And they even encouraged OEM's to install Netscape if they wanted to, as long as they did not modify the OS by removing IE.

Hmmm...MS wants to ensure we get at least one browser without going broke at CompUSA and boom....Everyone cries!

[Nathan]

lol well said BBA, as usual.

There is a lot of emotion involved in this situation. Computers have become a very BIG part of our lives. And when there are problems with them or when they don't react the way we think they should, we get emotionally involved.

A couple of thoughts here to ponder for a while. Grandslammer and BBA (among others)have made some good points. And before we start throwing stones, let me say this. Did M$ do some things it shouldn't have, yes they did. Most of the bigger companies do. And yes they got caught and deserve some type of punishment.

1. The decisions by this judge and maybe other judges too, can be mind boggling to say the very least. So much technology can be advanced, slowed, or stopped by the decisions of very small group of people. And these judges are going to make a decision on something they know so little about. Referring to how the hardware, operating system, and software works together.

2. If they do break up M$ (and it looks like they will) and open the code up for all to change, can you image how many versions of windows that can be out here? You think we have problems now. I'm sure someone is thinking, "What does that have to do with this?" Just watch and see what happens.

I could write alot more, but I've done that in the past. So much is at stake here. The ripple affect can be a disaster if the wrong decision is made. Let's hope for the best.

[awwall]

Well Said BBA. I am not in love with Msoft either. If someone comes along with a better mousetrap, I'll be the first one to jump onboard. However, if the Clinton bunch does succeed in breaking up Msoft I can assure you we will be the ones that come out on the bottom. Look at most other companies that have been forced to break up. Who does it cost? Us!! This will be no different.

My 2 cents.

aw

[hd581]

Hmmmm I'm really doubting a break up. I just don't see how that has much to do w/ curbing their monopoly power. Course I'm thinking they'll break it up into these kind of chunks:

1) OS
2) Applications
3) Embedded OS's (CE, I guess that's it) and other stuff I left out

[hd581]

Awwal: don't know about that. I remember that the Phone Companies had quite a monopoly at one point before the Government intervened. It got so bad that at one point no one was allowed to own a telephone. The companies would just install it and you'd be leasing/borrowing it from them. It was illegal to open it up or hook up other phones. And they could set any price they wanted. I'd definitely say the government saved us some money.

[SysOpt]

I think innovation is priority number one, and after all, we do have a choice of OS - could go with Linux, could buy a Mac, could go with BeOS, etc. And I don't think MS was wrong to bundle IE with Windows. It's not like they bundled it and then made it impossible to install a different browser.

But what I would disagree with is MS using their clout to strongarm partner companies into not doing business with competitors. For example, by saying "Fine, you can bundle your systems with Linux, but if you do it's going to cost you x% more for our product." Stuff like that is wrong.

We do owe a lot to MS, but I just wonder if it could have been done better by someone else, if competition hadn't been stomped out. I'm sure whenever a competing MS-like GUI was being developed, MS just bought them out or figured out some other way to keep them from taking off. I could go for more frequent product updates and a less buggy OS, for sure.

Ultimately though, I think it's bad for our country as a whole to break MS apart or otherwise waste their resources, and the governments, butting heads over this.

hd581: Sure, that was the case with AT&T, but unless I'm mistaken, consumers had no choice whatsoever. If you wanted to own a phone, your service was going to be provided by AT&T, period. I think that innovation in other OS's, particularly Linux, is really giving MS some decent competition (especially in the server arena), and giving us a choice.


[This message has been edited by SysOpt (edited 04-03-2000).]

[Amarok]

ok here is my opinion on this topic.

1. Although I am no big fan of M$ I do feel that their code is their code. No one else wrote it why should they get it.

2. Yes they are guily as sin... there is no getting around it. What should the punishment be? I dont know..... but I do know that this judge is definately NOT qualified to make many sound resolutions.

3. If they get a slap on the wrist will they do it again??? Who knows, should they be broken up? No idea.. Release the code? I think not... once again that belongs to M$ and no one else.... if they want to release it fine if not too bad for the other companies.

M$ is not the 1st company to get nailed with this.... and will not be the last. The only diffrence between the way M$ works and the way AOL works for example. Is that AOL has yet to be dragged up on the same types of charges. But we all know with the new software they are doing the same basic thing as M$, trying to rid the competition from the market.

They need to take a very long hard careful look as to how they are going to penalize M$ the wrong thing could spell the ruin for hundreds of companies and millions of people.

I am not saying that M$ is a good thing or a bad thing. Everyone gets on M$ case for what they have done. But as I say they are no worse than any other company ex. steal the windows idea from Apple, well where do you think apple stole the idea from?

I too will be looking at the updates but this is far from over even when the judge (Who FELL ASLEEP during the trial) delivers the penalties.


Amarok

[socalgal]

I'll bet that MS just keeps using the appeal system til the point is moot. Their lawyers surely know the "system" and will use every delay tactic in the book. MS will prevail - eventually. (my 0.02US)

[Morpheus1964]

I agree with a lot of what's been said:

1) Their source is their source, and for some things (ie go to IE and do "About" under Help) the blatantly admit that someone else's code has been bought for use in that program.

2) Breaking them up wil either a) do nothing or b) ruin them and others due to ripple effect. I lean strongly towards a).

Most of all, tho, I agree with Socalgal. I think the lawyers will have it tied up in appeals for at least 3 years, and by that point we'll all be 2 OS versions down the road, or running something else. By the time this suit is over, everything involved will be so outdated MS won't give a d*mn and neither will we.

Just my cent &1/2...

-M

[sparki]

sorry for the ranting ive been up for a few hours now:

i think that if M$ had included an option to install IE or another Browser or have an option to uninstall IE.

The company is to big be punished what the gouv do they will find a way around it. And i bet microdoft knew that this was going to happen why do you think old billy stepped down to concetrate on the softwar.. hmmmmm.

Lots of computing proffesssionals would love to run a different OS but they still have to have Windows purely for conversion because so many people use it.

I think spillting the company up will do nothing.

If they are forced to release the code the amount of virus that are going to use it will be huge. Not mentioning the amount of ifferent versions that will be available form TomDickAndHary.com .

ANother thin i just heard that i forggot about is that this now means that we can sue Microsoft for makingg us put up with IE shame we cant do that about WIndows.

Hey what about another law about releasing unfinished work especially OS's in which you know has bugs in??

[seti]

I think it's odd how a product everybody *****es about (win95 and boxed patches) is a cash cow of a company that has the power to cause the largest one-day points drop in nasdaq history.

This proves public dependency on the windows platform. Did they break the law? Yes, that's history now. Do we care? I don't think we really do. As for the price of windows, realative to other softwear I would say it's fairly priced.


I don't want them to break up MS....everone would still use windows, and MS would just march on....with a bit of a limp. However unlikely it is, I would like to see the Windows code opened. It would keep a common platform which is important to overall cost of computeing.

As for the comment that opening the code would crash the market...People would take there money out of microsoft and put it somewhere else. If you liked the Linux IPO's...imagen Windows IPO's. In the end it would make the market more stable.

[narayan]

All I know is what is on the news. I do not trust what I hear on the news. I do not form an opinion without more than enough information. I do not have enough info to make a decision. I do know that the body charging Micro$oft with anti-trust crimes is the Clinton administration, and I know not to believe or trust a word (or action) that they say or do.

[This message has been edited by narayan (edited 04-04-2000).]

[awwall]

hd581..all I know is that before ATT was broken up, i was paying less than $15.00 dollars a month for flat rate on home phone. After the break up, I ended up at around $40.00 for the same phone service. There in is where my logic came from. May not have happened to all, but South Central Bell put it to us.

aw