21 inch monitors / BNC

[acobra]

Hi all.. I have 2 questions. I'm in the market for a 21/22 inch monitor, and I wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions. I'm curious about what the BEST with no money constraints would be and also what the BEST "bang for the buck" would be.
Right now I'm leaning towards the Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2060u - but it doesn't have BNC connectors which leads me to my second question:

Is there a big visible difference in DSUB vs BNC connections? I used to hear yes, huge difference, but lately I keep hearing that the difference is very small or non-existent?

Any Suggestions / Ideas / Comments?? Thanks!!!

[barbados]

I have two Mitsubushi 2020U's currently running side-by-side, one off of BNC and the other off of SDUB. Same video cards in both machines.

I would have to say the BNC is about 10% sharper. Maybe 15%.

I haven't seen the 2060U's and didn't realize they came sans a BNC input.

2020U refirbs, and yes even new, are still available, but you'll have to search.

I think you will be as pleased as I am with this monitor. I don't think you'll find anything that beats it for $US1200.

[AuraEdge]

How can I utilize the BNCs?
My monitor has BNC's but I thought they were for special video cards, so I just used the normal 15pin connector.
Do I just have to buy an adapter cord or wha?

If its that easy, I'll go for better image quality.

[Andy_L]

You can buy a BNC cable, basically its a cable with 15pin d-sub on one end and the other end has five bnc connectors, for red, green, blue, horizontal and vertical sync. Here is a site that sells them (for an example, the first site I found, not a recommendation) http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=915&sku=02561
btw, the reason I realy like the monitors with 15 pin and BNC connectors, if they have a front panel swith between the two, you can use two PC's and not worry about your KVM switch handling high resolution/refresh rates.


[This message has been edited by Andy_L (edited 05-04-2001).]

[Andy_L]

I think the site I linked to is pretty overpriced, it would pay to look around.

[acobra]

Well so far I am still looking at the 2020/ 2040 / 2060 .. Not sure what the differences are except the 2020 and 2040 are MUCH harder to find, cost more, and have BNC connectors. (what ever happened to HIGHER product numbers having more features and being the more expensive ones??)

One person on another site suggested that a cable that is attached to the monitor might even be better than one w/ BNC connectors because they are wired directly to the board.

Thanks for the comments so far.. any more info??

[Peter M]

Yes, an important aspect in the PC world - BNC cables don't have the two extra lines that make the data channel for monitor PnP. So make sure that your graphics card's drivers have manual refresh rate and timing adjustment features.

Regards, Peter

[acobra]

Sorry Peter you lost me a bit on that one...

What are the 2 extra lines? What are the limitations w/ PnP when using BNC exactly?

Right now I have a ATI Radeon 64 DDR. I don't think I should have any problems w/ adjustments do you?

Thanks!

[barbados]

Boy, acobra, I think I spoke too soon when I said the 2020U & 2060U monitors were still available!

I just spent 45 minutes looking for them, and found ZIP!

It looks like since NEC bought Mitsubishi they are slowly phasing out the Mitsibishi line and going to NEC/Mitsubishi with their own model numbers.

It also looks like the 2060U weighs a number of pounds less than the previous models. Don't think that is just because it doesn't have BNC's....?

I know for a fact that last month Mitsubushi had 54 refurbs and 12 new 2020U's in their warehouse in Fremont, CA and at least an equal amount in their Duluth, GA warehouse as they sent me one new one and one refurb because the anti glare coating was coming off the front glass from using windex for 13 months. The tech I worked with told me the stock.

Free FED-EX 2-DAY both ways, I might add.

So, I don't know if there is a dealer somewhere that can access these for you...

...I think it's going to take a little more digging than I thought....

Good Luck!

[acobra]

I assume you meant 2020u and 2040u - I found the 2040 not any 2020s though...
http://www.a2zcomp.com/buy.asp?REF=12&SKU=480207

[socalgal]

I have a 2040u and while it's a pretty great monitor, for me it still doesn't compare to my 4 year old Sony 15" CPD-100VS for text clarity. The Sony has much blacker text. No matter how much I tweak the 2040u, I can't seem to achieve the same level of black/white text contrast. Colors seem a bit more vivid on the Sony, too.

Other than that, it's a great monitor. I noticed better visual quality right away when I first tried BNC cables as well, perhaps 10-15% vs regular VGA cable.

If I had had the money at the time, I would've gone with another Sony, though. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[AuraEdge]

acobra - I prefer the ones that are NOT attached to the monitor. Im not sure about quality reason, but say if you bent or broke a pin on the 15 Pin connector on a monitor with no other connectors...The monitor would be trash unless you can get it professionally repaired.
If that happens to one with a seperate connector, just chuck the connector and buy a new one for a few dollars. I can why this person would think that this is better, but I don't think it affects it. I could be wrong.

Peter - Even though the monitor will lose its ability to Plug&Play, cant you still manually install monitor drivers in safe mode or something so that it will recognize it as the screen it is?

Andy_L - I Found this off www.pricewatch.com (http://www.pricewatch.com) when looking up 'BNC' and 'Video' http://harbourtownsales.site.yahoo.net/monkeymousca.html

15 bucks for a 6 ft VGA to BNC connector. Excellent resellerrating. 15 is still a good deal of money for just a connector that I dont actually need. Maybe If I order something else from that place.
Another thing caught my eye there...to the right of the BNC connectors is this $5 Y splitter for VGA. Does that split one video card's output to two monitors?
I wasn't aware that you could do that; I thought you needed a dualhead card for that.

If that really does let me display to two screens, then I think I may have found the 'other thing' I'd buy it with. Any Info is welcome.

I guess if people would pay 300+ bucks for new video cards, I guess I can spend $15 for 10-15% better image quality. I would hate to buy the BNC's and not notice any different though. You think I'll be able to tell right away, Barbados and Socalgal??

And the Mitsubishis are considered the best 21-22" screens, but I'm not sure if that's still he case, since the 20x0u's are several years running. Since I'm kinda crashing your thread wiht a million and one questions, I felt that I should help your dicision some.

I also could not find any 2020u's, and only one for the 2040u, the same A2Z link you gave. 2060's are all over the place though. Right now I am not aware of how effective BNC connectors are against normal D-SUB connectors, but if they are indeed 10-15%, I would look for another brand that may be a step under the 20x0u's, and just make up for whatevers slightly worse in that screen with the 10-15% better image quality due to the BNC's.

Perhaps an Iiyama VisionMaster 510 - http://www.iiyama.com/product2/a201ht.htm

IIyama's 19" screen is considered one of the best, if not the best 19" screen available, and I doubt they would slip that much between models. This 22" screen has BNC connectors, max res of 2048x1536, Aperture Grill .25mm. Ive never seen this screen or read any reviews, so I cant straight out recommend it to you. Just something to think about, and a possible alternative option to the Mitsubishi 20x0u's.

[Andy_L]

Like I said, I thought the price was kind of high. You can use the Y-splitter, but you will lose some signal quality, we had a splitter box at work, finally ended up replacing it with a proper, powered splitter box, but then again we were driving 2 or 3 monitors at once for testing.

[socalgal]

AuraEdge, yes on mine. Noticeable color improvement (not a whopping difference, but some). I guess because of channel separation? (I haven't a clue. That's a Peter question <g> ) If you dont' see a visible difference with a BNC cable, just return it http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

And mine wasn't cheap; at Fry's they're $39.99 for a 6' cable, so if it hadn't been worth it, I would've brought it back.

I would question if a $15 BNC cable is the same quality as a $40 cable? Just something to think about http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 05-05-2001).]

[AuraEdge]

A splitter box only allows only screen at any givin time doesnt it? We had a 4 way VGA splitter at work and thats how it seemed to work. 40 bucks for cables seems a little high. I mean they're just cables!

I think I'll try out the 15 dollar cables with a couple of other small goodies from harbourtown, just for experimenting. (maybe that Y splitter). They have a couple cheap things that look interesting. Its free shipping this weekend over $35, and normal shipping is $7 anyways, so i guess its time to pick up a few miscellaneous gadgets.

Are there any cons to switching over to BNC's?

[Andy_L]

The box we are using at work is a professional item used for video conferencing, I believe it was previously used to output to a monitor and a projector at the same time, but it has one input and 4 output, and will output to four monitors without distortion that we can see (we use it to QC repaired monitors.) I know the unit was pretty expensive when purchased, but it was extra so we latched onto it, lol. On the BNC cable, logically, you would have to be using a high quality, high resolution disply to see the difference, IMHO.

[Peter M]

acobra, AuraEdge,

BNC cables just pass Red, Green, Blue and horizontal/vertical sync signals, there is no data channel as required for monitor PnP.

_IF_ your operating system gives you some means of defining the monitor properties manually, you're in business anyway. Like in Windows, where you manually load a monitor profile, or in X, where you can define your own suitable display modes.

I just warned that it MAY be a pain in the *ss if you don't have those means, like with dual-monitor configurations in Windows 2000. It took Matrox five months and three driver updates to finally allow me to get that 21" fixed-frequency workstation monitor my friend has to work in W2K.

Regards, Peter

[acobra]

Well, I just typed a really long post and accidentally deleted it.. so I'm gonna make a shorter version of it cause I'm in a rush now.

Basically I'm more confused than before I started because everyone seems to have a different opinion... I'm now looking into Iilyma, Eizo, Sony, Mitsubishi, Viewsonic and Samsung monitors based on opinions and reviews (a surprisingly large number of reviewers really like the Samsung and Viewsonic monitors - I wasn't even thinking about them). It's a lot to sift through though. and there are many conflicting opinions. I wish I could just sit in a room with all these monitors side by side.

Anyhoo, I've settled in the $1,000 range, but there's a lot there. One interesting thing to note (going back to the Mitsubishi’s) is that the 2060 is $200-300 cheaper than the 2040 and apparently the only difference is the BNC connectors. And the 2060 has a SLIGHTLY bigger viewing area and a smaller case - see this comparison:
http://204.31.180.105/shopping_tools/selector?sel=266884&sel=266875&cmd=cmp&x=32&y=12

So if I stick with my original questions - is the BNC difference worth $200-300?? Anyone have any divine guidance for me??

I guess I lied, that wasn't that short!!! LOL

Thanks for all your help so far!!!

[AuraEdge]

If you are still considering between the two Mitsubishi monitors, I would say just get the 2060u and don't look back.

Samsung is known to have extremely good screens for low prices...or "bang for the buck" as most would say. Thier screens consistently rank among the top, and thier prices rank among the normal mediocre screens. The thing is , they are hardly ever the top, so if thats whats imporant to you, I dont know if the 1200NF is for you.

After looking at a few reviews of the IIyama 510 and the Mitsubishi 2060u and 2040u, it looks like the specification differences are

1) The Iiyama has BNC's and 2048x1536 @ 80Hz, and .25mm dot pitch.

2) The Mitsubishi 2060u has no BNC's and 2048x1536 @ 80Hz, and .24mm dot pitch.

3) The Mitsubishi 2040u has BNC's 2048x1536 @ 60Hz, and .24mm dot pitch.

All three screens have excellent reputations
I just read through about 5 reviews of each, and they all had a positive outlook. I still havent found one actually comparing a IIyama and a Mitsubishi though. I found one comparing a IIyama and a host of others, including a Sony, and the IIyama came out on top http://www.zdnet.co.uk/pcdir/content/1999/10/peripherals/eb_monitors/
Some of thier specs are wrong, but thier testing method is very good (panel of viewers).

[acobra]

Hey Aura thanks for that great summary. I liked that review too. It was educational as well, just reading the stuff leading up to the review.

For a slight change of pace.. I noticed a refurbished SONY GDM-F500R on e-bay, which is their best 21" (there is a 520 now, but I think they are basically the same)

The current bid is still in the 300's but reserve hasn't been met. Any concerns about refurbs? There is a 90 day sony warranty on it. It might be worth it since they go for 1500-1700 normally and the buy now price listed is $1,029. I tried to bid like 300 to see what happened but i've been outbid already. I'll wait til closer to the end if I decide to try to get it.

[acobra]

Here's an interesting fact to add to this. I don't know how many of you already knew this... But I realized that the iiyama, samsung, viewsonic, and mitsubishi monitors all use the same Mitsubishi tubes...

I noticed this because my monitor at work which is a gateway) says "DIAMONDTRON NF" in the upper right.. I don't know if that's always the case, but I know the iiyama in that review says that the tube is a "DIAMONDTRON NF" also.

I'm sure the circutry, etc. makes a difference as well though.. I just thought it was interesting.

[AuraEdge]

Most flat screens out there use the Mitsubishi Diamondtron NaturalFlat Tube
That includes the Samsung, Viewsonic, IIyama, any just about everything else.
The only notable flat screens that dont use Diamondtron are the LG Electronics Flatron screens (thier own technology) and Sonys screens (Sony's Trinitron). Diamondtron sports quality as good as the trinitron, and its cheaper. Thats why many companies use it.
Just because they are all diamondrons doesnt mean that monitor a's dot pitch or image quality is as good as monitor b's - Internal cuircutry like you said.

I also hear the F500R is the best of the best. Ebay's a good place to get bargains some times, but its also a place where some poeple just get in bidding frenzys last minute, so when you go to sleep thinking you got a new screen, some guy buys it for an insane amount of money.

Also beware that refurbs can come without things such as monitor stands, or the little door hiding controls (if it has one, which I dont think many high end screens have).

If you are willing to put the time into it to watch the bids, and dont mind being dissapointed, go for it.

[acobra]

Well I know how to play the bidding game.. and I realize you have to be watching up til the second the auction closes... Hey, I've been guilty of last second bidding myself... (I collect animation art when I can afford to)

I've been looking around a bit and found that UBID offers an optional 1 year Advanced Replacement warranty on refurbished monitors for an additional $62. I think that's probably $62 well spent. They had a F520 yesterday but I missed it... It was around $600 in the afternoon, but there is no way AFAIK to see what it closed at.

I'll just keep my eyes open and if I don't succeed in about a week or so I'll just bite the bullet and buy the 2060u or iiyama 510 or bite a bigger bullet and buy a F520. Pricegrabber tells me about $900 for the 2060, $940 (w/out shipping) for the 510 and $1500 for the F520 - Including shipping. So we will see...

Thanks AuraEdge, and everyone else.. I'm still open for comments of course. I'll report back with a review when I get whatever it is I get...

[AuraEdge]

BNC's came today
I dont really notice any additional sharpness, but I generally find it hard to see a difference unless I know what to look for.
Maybe if I had them side by side, I could tell.
The VGA splitter is a piece of junk (but you already knew that http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif). When another screen is pluged in, the brightness pretty much splits between the channels, but I dont notice any dropped image quality.
I used this to hook up the D-Sub and BNC's at the same time to the video card, with the reduced brightness to see If I could tell any difference between the two.
I pumped the res all the way up to 1920x1440 on my 19" screen, and there is definitly less blurrage at that res w/ the BNCs.
I use 1280x1024 for just about everything though, and not ever higher for conventional use. I'm not noticing anything greatly different, but I Dont do any Photoshop work or anything either.
I should start staring at more CG art to see if they look any more vivid.
Total use time with BNC's is about 5 minutes now.
It did feel alot more professional to plug in the BNC's though than the small teeny thumbscrews on the D-Sub.

Just some feedback so far.

[Mistr2]

AuraEdge

What kind of monitor do you have and what brand are your BNC cables? I have a Samsung 950P and I am really considering BNC cables.

[AuraEdge]

I have a Philips 109P20 19" Flatscreen.
I got these BNC's from Harbourtownsales.com
Its in a black shielded casing.
Theres no label onit, and I didnt really check it's bag out for text.

The more I'm using my screen, the more clarity I notice. (Resolution, 1280x1024x32@100Hz)
Theres nothing in particular that is better looking, but the general feel from the monitor is better.
The icons and things look more vibrant.
The CG Art I have looks alot better and lively too.

Or maybe they just look better because I'm expecting it to look better, and its all psychological thing. I'm not sure.

[AuraEdge]

Acobra - http://www.tigerdirect.com/sectors/nec/22crt.asp
Your choice of 5 22" Flat screens for $399, including the 2020u, and one NEC FP1370 that retails at $1299. These are factory resealed and recertified.

This screen is VERY impressive.
It uses second generation Diamondtron, and has up to 2048x1536 @ 80Hz, and 1940x1440 @ 85Hz - Flicker free. 85Hz at that high a res is extremely impressive.


[This message has been edited by AuraEdge (edited 05-11-2001).]

[DVNT1]

MicroWarehouse.com has a good price on the IBM P260. Normally sells for about $1100 but current price is like $650.
I just ordered a second one for our Engineering group. They've already used one for about a year and they really like it.
http://www2.warehouse.com/product.asp?pf%5Fid=MT3333&cat=pc