UCITA to be signed into law today in VA!

[Chef Mark]

Gilmore is expected to sign the UCITA bill into law today in Virginia. The only good thing about this is that a coalition of companies based in VA has won a delay in the implementation of the law. Here's the story: http://www.computerworld.com/home/print.nsf/all/000306F3AE

Hopefully, by the time July 2001 arrives someone will figure out that this law needs to be trashed.

Chef

[UncaDanno]

Hey, Mark. Have you READ UCITA? That thing's about the most abusive piece of, well you know, that I've ever seen!

I saw a license agreement not too long ago that said something to the effect that, by merely RECEIVING the software you accept all the provisions of the licensing agreement. Then the rest of the licensing agreement said that the software is provided as is (of course) and that the software company is in no way responsible for so much as taking a look at reported bugs.

UCITA is one of the most oppressive pieces of work ever to come down the pike. I say that from the standpoint of a developer at that!

[Chef Mark]

Yea - I have read through the draft. Pretty horrible stuff in there. There are also a considerable amount of misconceptions on both sides of the issue.

The main problem that I see with it is that it provides considerably more muscle to the Software companies without give us end users comparable remedies.

Chef

[Dominus]

Already made LOTS of comments over the past year about UCITA. And no matter how dreadful I make it seem, and no matter how thourough I explain the horrors of it, no one gives a rats ***.

Just gets to me sometimes...

If this were happening in my province, me and every other Geek in the country would be at our respective Gov't buildings protesting. But as far as I know, the states that have accepted UCITA have done so without so much as a whimper of protest.

You'll wake up one day, and wonder where all your freedom went. And then you'll just grumble about the government, and how it's all their fault. But, who, in a democracy, REALLY IS the government? Why yourselves, of course. Who can you place the blame on now?

Sorry for the rant. Haven't had enough time to relax for about 3 weeks straight.

[chipbgt]

can someone send me a lnk to a site with the basic points of UCITA? thanks!

[happyhamster]

"What is UCITA?" http://archive.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?/features/990531ucita1.htm

"List of the top dozen issues opponents of UCITA are concerned about" http://archive.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?/features/990531ucita3.htm

Previous threads about ucita on sysopt: http://www.sysopt.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/004276.html http://www.sysopt.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/001217.html http://www.sysopt.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/001240.html

[CMonster]

I predict that UCITA will actually spawn a massive wave of priacy due to the anger of consumers.

This also should serve a boon to the opensource movement.

[chipbgt]

information overload.....i think my brain is fighting its way out my ear....

[Chef Mark]

Chipbgt - better get a Qtip and push your brain back in. Still need your helpful advice here. I think your right - this whole mess is coming at a very opportune time for the open source movement.

BTW, I think we have just seen the tip of the iceberg when it comes to UCITA.

Chef

[Ed_S]

Somehow, this all escaped me & this was the first I'd read of it. Have spent the last two hours following links & reading, and like Chip, I'm overloaded.

One overwhelming thing about this. it's gonna pass

Have just read letter from 25 state's attorney general's opposing it.
Federal Trade Commission opposes.

List of those in opposition:
http://www.badsoftware.com/oppose.htm

With that kind of oppostion, this thing should've died long ago - but didn't.

Whatever forces are behind it, are clearly stronger than those listed above.


A few states will pass it on the basis of increased trade revenue.
More will use the excuse of maintaining equal footing with the first few.

Those states where opposition is strongest will be last, but will be forced to bow to economic pressure.
After all, what legislator could refuse if MS simply states that they will not allow their product to be sold or registered within a given state?


just my .02¢

[socalgal]

Not true, Dominus, plenty of people give a "rat's ***" but how to overlobby the likes of MS and those other multi-billion $$ software companies ?? How??

I have yet to see a commercial on TV or hear on a radio station that which would inform the people of this country about UCITA.. (at least the stations I listen to) except for David Horowitz and haven't seen that one in awhile. You'd think a consumer's group or the ACLU would have written me back? I've sent emails to my government reps - what happened to them? I have tried to make my little squeak of a voice heard. But we need numbers to even begin to fight something like this - lots of numbers!

It's a black day when something like this gets passed. Sad thing is, not enough people even know about it, or don't care.. But they will and it's already begun to be too late. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 03-14-2000).]

[Chef Mark]

Rant away - that's fine with me. Part of our problem is that while there are a lot of users in the US there is a smaller proportion that actually understand what UCITA could mean.

when you get down to it how many people actually read the license agreement before they download or open the CD? There is more than one reason why the licenses are so hard to understand - if they aren't clear then many people will not bother to read them.

I view this whole UCITA affair with a lot of loathing even though I work for a software company. I don't want to see it go into effect because I think that the first time the law is put to the test and publicized then the general public is going to become very nervous about breaking this "law." Seems to me that this will be a big damper on software sales.

From a user standpoint, I want some remedies that protect me from bad code similar to the **** M$oft has been selling recently and then releasing all those service packs so soon afterwards.

Rant - my $0.02.
Chef.

[This message has been edited by Chef Mark (edited 03-14-2000).]

[CMonster]

You know the really sad thing is that I like Windows 2000 - and now as a matter of principle I will try to avoid buying MS products - I can only hold out hope that the next release of Linux will address some of the glaring deficiencies that sitll plauge the current releases.

[U-96]

...and people still wonder why McCain wanted to take the money out of politics...

U-96

[UncaDanno]

Dominus and socalgal, hate to tell you, but this country stopped being a true democracy decades ago.

The overwhelming majority of US citizens, the ones who daily bust their hump just trying to get ahead of the grabbers, will never have the time or (more importantly) MONEY it takes to sway ANY number of legislators.

[happyhamster]

Kinda unrelated, but since U-96 mentioned McCain, I think that he's the only worthy presidential candidate who emerged in the last 10 years. I believe he lost now cause his name wasn't in the people's brains for long enough. If he doesn't give up and stays in the "higher circles" of politics for 4 more years, he'll have much better chance. At least he'll get my vote.

[Chef Mark]

Yeah Happy, I agree with you. I wish that enough people would encourage McCain to run as an independent. The level of support he probably would receive might wake up the jerks who are in power now. Although they probably can't see over the piles of money that the special interest groups are stuffing in their respective coffers.

As far as UCITA - I think it is pretty clear why this is still moving forward eventhough it is opposed by half of the State Attorneys General and the FTC - $$$$$. I would love to see how much money M$oft has put behind this effort as well who the other major companies are that are pushing this.

Chef

[socalgal]

Call me a fighter, optimist, dreamer, whatever, but this has only passed in ONE state so far! C'mon people, there's still alot we can do. If we just do it, at least we can say we fought it and didn't just roll over and die.

Read this and decide if Anti-UCITA is not worth fighting for (short nuts & bolts detail)

http://www.4cite.org/mission.html

There's plenty of letters we can send, you don't even have to compose one, just cut and paste this one:

"We are a broad-based coalition of end-users and developers of computer and information technology. We support the development of high-quality computer and information technology and the growth of fair and competitive markets in technology licensing and electronic commerce. UCITA (proposed UCC Article 2B) is anti-quality and anti-competitive and will not promote these objectives. Our mission, therefore, is to ensure that it does not become law in any state."

Edit and modify to reflect your individual situation.

Then send it to your local Attys General, all of the Names & Addresses are listed right here!

www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian/UCITA/NCCUSL-reps-by-state.html (http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian/UCITA/NCCUSL-reps-by-state.html)


Five minutes? Maybe that much. Let's not act like victims yet. Kudos to everyone who posted relevant links in this thread. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

I should perhaps add that my statements on this topic are my personal views only and as such should not be construed as nor do they necessarily reflect the views of EarthWeb and SysOpt. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Joel Kleppinger]

U-96: ...and give the monopoly of information to the media... not me.

UncaDanno is at least partially right.. what bothers me is that democracy has always degenerated into some form socialism (which gives power of distribution to a select few) over time. Look at the U.S. tax rates... after you figure in sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes, we pay well over 50% of our income to the government. And that percentage is even higher for upper-income level people ($100k+/year).

[Chef Mark]

I second your thought that there is still a lot we can do. I think that we should start a letter writing campaign. Scott, Joel what do you think? We don't want to get left behind the likes of Slashdot do we <g>? Speaking of Slashdot they received some press for their opposition today in Wired http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,34947,00.html BTW, the article also contains numbers links including one that has a fairly extensive list of the organizations in opposition of UCITA.

Maybe SysOpt does not want to formally announce opposition, but with 7,000+ members individually emailing everyone we can think of this might help kill this stupid thing.

Chef

Note: The views expressed above are my own and in no way purport to represent the views of SysOpt or it's members in general.

[Zebra2k]

I think it has it's pros and cons. In my opinion companies are tired of losing money due to lack of encription techniques. I also, think that we as comsumers have the right to fight this and get it straightened out before it's too late and we lose out security that we've come to know and love. If something goes wrong does it not get looked over in an attempt to rectify the situation? Well, we can fight this but we must combate it with intellegence and serious thought. If you know anything about software developement then get behind this Coalition and lets all (as the comsumers we are) help set the record straight.

Nobody want's to compromise the quality of Information Technology and it's delivery proccesses because of (I think it comes down to this) Terms of Use. Do we need expiry dates on our software (every software?). Do we need to lessen the protection against faulty software (through electronic transfers, Compact disks and store bought software) to the point where it is not specified as to what limitations are being imposed on the products we buy? These are tough questions to answer and we have the time, so lets start discussing.

P.S. Somewhere inside me (being a veteran from Bill Board System days and having run one of my own before internet days) I knew it would happen. But, you know what? I'm glad I saw this post and had a chance to cash in my 2 cents worth.