Do Kids have NO respect for property

[Richard_Cranium72]

After I got back from skiing Copper Mt Colorado I made a nasty discovery. My old trusty Chevrolet Monza 2+2 V-8 4speed car had the drivers side windows shot out. Closer inspection revealed BB's. A call to the neighbor netted the culprit.. His 12 yr old son shot them out, for what reason I dunno, we've never had any problems.. I've had this car since Jan 1976, it was a special edition with leather seats and at the time was the lightest car with a V-8 engine that you could buy. The Ga State Patrol made several comments as to how fast this car would accelerate FROM 100 mph !! So much for drivel,, why did this punk do $500 in damage to my car ?? I'm at a loss.. DrVette

[welsh wizard]

The kid will proably say it seemed like a good idea at the time, personally I think a lot is the way they are brought up,they are not taught respect, honour, etc. and the in many way the schools are hamstrung, they can't use the cane, they can't use religion as examples, so the way of the world is the way we bring them up. sad but true. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif

I do hope you can at least get the spares for the V8, as some older models bits and pieces can be hard to come by.

Oh make sure his old man pays the damages.
WW

[Eli]

Wow, I'm sorry to hear that (Beautiful car too...). If it makes you feel any better, most little kids in this neighborhood aren't the brightest bunch either. You see someone doing something stupid, ask them why they're doing it, and only get a blank look in return. I'm sure the worst ones will be tossed in jail soon enough...

That kid's parents will pay for the window, right?

[Missing the point]

I am a 15 year old Teenager, and I think its totally the way they are brought up. They don't have a proper authority figure to see, and there parents are afraid to punish them. I think schools should have the right to punish kids, all they can do right now is send them home, and I think that the kids like that! Think of it, no school for a couple of days, oh wow, your parents yell at you for about 20 minutes, thats if they do that even, and then you get a couple of days off school.

Parents should learn to punish their Children properly, because those are normally the only troublmakers. That, and if their parents are divorced, that will make it harder on them.


-Tyler

[jad1097]

What a shame, I hope it did not rain after the windows got shot out.
A friend of mine put a small block 400 in a 74 Monza, it took a bit of cutting to get it in there. Man that thing was fast.

[Missing the point]

If you want to talk about fast cars, my dads got the ULTIMATE!!!!!

If only he didn't part it out and sell it though.

It was a 1999 VW Beetle, with a VR6 Engine, Turbocharged, producing 375 HP and over 400 LBs of torque. It was faster than a Dodge Viper!!! It did the low 11's on the 1/4 mile with street tires.

Also, my dad has a 1996 VW Jetta right now, which he'll keep for years to come, it is loowered 4 inches, with TSW 15" mags, and Coil over shocks, and the grand finale, a Audi A4 1.8T motor, producing well over 260 HP. This is the only car in the world with an Aui 1.8T motor in it, and it took about 2 weeks toget all the wiring to work properly. The A/C and everything still works.

Here's the web site for where we got it done, and it has some cool pics in the Gallery section:
http://www.momentummotor.com

[Dominus]

As a young person, I believe I can speak truthfully in saying that most young people are morons.

I know I am. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

But it's not all our fault we're screwed up. We're being bombarded daily with messages telling us to "Just Do it(tm)" and "Fall into the Gap(tm)". We look to the future, and see nothing but a bought-and-sold world where everyone yearns for the good old days when it wasn't like this. Basically, we know what the future has in store, we know it ain't pretty, so I guess young people no longer bother planning for it.

I see what my life will be like in 20 years, and I'm terrified of it. It's not gonna be like the Jetsons. More like 1984, except in the information age.

[alondra]

As long as there are teens, and younger around , and dare I say their parents,like missing the point, there is some hope for our society
He makes some good points, today the schools can show no authority, and our liberals have created a society in which if you spank a kid he can sue you or some busy-body will bring charges against you,
among a large segment of youth to day the words, responcibility. respect, honesty, honor and modesty are unknown.

[socalgal]

Sorry to hear this, Dr. Vette..

This behavior is so... needless. I hope you are reimbursed for this "child's" actions.

[Dominus]

If everyone thinks conservatism will fix America's problems, then you are doomed.

[Wiz]

If everyone thinks liberalism will fix America's problems, then you are doomed.

[Underclocked]

On the bright side, if there is one, at least it was a BB gun and not a 12 gauge pump and a car window and not a human being.
I have a feeling that youngster may learn a VERY NEEDED lesson from this incident.
And, I'm looking back some 40 odd years and thinking he might turn out okay. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif
Very sorry about your car though. I would indeed be POed!!

[Smokey]

I'm 14, and it never ceases to amaze me what some people that are in my age bracket will do... usually without putting any thought into it at all.

[R[][]FER]

Respect...Respect...Respect.

Do the younger people, our future representatives, even know what this word means? Maybe the more well brought up ones do...the ones that are taught this in their household that the parents try in plant into their minds, by showing them as per examples.

I truly believe that in this day and age, that the majority of kids are living...day by day. As their friends are doing.

They do not know what is going to happen to them or where they will be in 5...10...15 or so years. And right now, they don't really seem too interested in it.

I am NOT SAYING that ALL kids think this way. But there seems to be alot of them that feel this way.

Why?...Is it the upbringing that they are experiencing today? Is it the peer pressure? Is it one parent families?

But, whatever the excuse, is there no COMMON SENSE nowadays?? Do they not know RIGHT from WRONG? Can they not think for themselves?

In my point of view with alot of kids nowadays, COMMON SENSE is just an obstacle which they don't want to acknowledge or face.

And this is only my outlook on it...not everyones. It's just the way I see it. And this has been going on for alot of years. It's just being brought out to the surface more these days with everything going on.

I just wish it was like the older days when everyone knew what the word..RESPECT..meant.

Thanks

[welsh wizard]

Dominus, The future holds much, in many ways I wish I could be around in another 60 years I think the future holds much promise, and yes it holds many fears as well but man has gone through bad times through out history, just think what it must have been like during the days of the "Star Chamber" or closer to our time a Jew in Germany in the early 40's, man does come to his senses, Good example was the way schools abandoned phonetics to teach children to read, now a generation or two later the schools are going back to it, I believe that man will win through in the end and there is one hell of a bright future for mankind.
Just my 2cents worth
WW

[Apostle 83]

Sad thing is, if he did that, I guarantee he won't be punished-you do what you're raised to. He was obviously raised to be an idiot.

[narayan]

Dominus, I hope that you will take a more positive outlook on life. The future is not written, and therefore you can not expect the worst. Make the most of what you have!

PS, Have you ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy?

[alondra]

Iv'e watched 40 years of liberalism doom our society,

[narayan]

AMEN!

[This message has been edited by narayan (edited 03-13-2000).]

[medo]

Hello,

There is no big difference (usually) between kids and parents.
Problem is – parents can’t see that resemblance and when society notices a bad side, it is too late.

Medo

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[Amarok]

I am sorry to hear what happened. Make the old man pay AND.... make the kid pay in kind as well doing odd jobs. Your time is worth money as well to find the replacement if it takes you 20 hrs that equates to 400 dollars of my time. So at min wage for the kid that will be xxx hrs working for you. Which I think is fair.

I think that since kids now do not get much dicipline. They think that they can get away with anything. If I had of done that I would have gotten the strap from my old man (AND well deserved as well).

Like they say Spare the Rod and you spoil the child.

Society today says that we should not spank kids. Well look at where it has gotten us. I for one will give one of my kids a spanking when it is TRUELY deserved. It hurts me then it huts them but I think when they are older that tthey will be better off for it. I see other kids my sons age with absolutely no respect for others. I think that beacuse of the way I have raised mine he has alot of respect for others.

Just my opinion.

Amarok

[oblivion]

Hold on here guys.......I was raised great,by loving and wise understanding parents,that have showed me much in the ways of respect.....yet when I was younger I did some crazy stupid stuff......like one time our neighbors were building a house(I was 7)
and I would go back to the house and break the windows out with rocks......all the time..till I was caught at least,then I had to do all kinds of work around my house,and go pay the neighbors the money I earned in shame of my actions every week,now that I look back I realize this was a small token amount of money to make me feel bad about what I had done,and my parents had really paid them the whole amount when they found out what really had happened.

I had done other bad things when I was older too,like about 11-14,and it was not my parents fault at all,in fact it was because I started to question athority and its purpose and relation to me,and maybe because
I was just a little kid going through puberty.

To say a childs parents are certainly at fault is a very bold and ignorant statement
to say the least........I am not saying they aren't,but I am saying that there are things that kids sometimes can not learn from all the heresay in the world,but they need real life experiance to learn it,real respect for other peoples property had to be learned first hand for me,not just from people telling me about it. I was always the type to have to try everything once,and maybe this kid is too,so don't hate him,or condem his parents......but try to accept it as one of the childish things kids can do,and hope that he will learn a very valuable lesson from this incident,and mature from it.

Kids are known for doing stupid things all the time,that is why we say things such as "kids sheesh!",after all they are just kids.

Now if he raped your family dog,and then procedded to burn you car to the ground,then I would wonder what kind of parents he had,or question his mental stability,but shooting a window out with a BB gun? It is very common for kids to shoot out windows with BBguns.........I have heard about it many times,and I would not judge a little kid so heavily because of it.


I would expect compensation though,and an apology from the kid......and maybe I would want to have a talk with him,but I wouldn't be disturbed by it,or even wonder what the world was coming too............I mean comeon
that is the kind of things kids do,they have been doing stuff like that for thousands of years,I assure you.

[medo]

Hello,

Oblivion – I agree with you, because we all had a time of rebellion, time of judging our parents’ values and time of growing up. I am sick of asking for more discipline and fear of god, I am for quality time with kids and less time in front of the TV, I am for a walk with parents and building mutual trust and not for buying temporary love with money/toys.
Of course this is my humble opinion.

Medo

http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[eshort]

I attribute alot of this situation to general lack of parenting..if i had a penny for every time i have had a door closed on me/ had a kid push in front of me in a line etc--with the parents present!!!--I cld retire...it amazes me to see kids in public places screaming/running up/down isles/mishandling items (banging on computer keyboards etc) with parents present---if i had done this as a kid i wlod have been slapped on the spot!!!--i remeber being told "when u go out of our house u keep your hands to yourself, and dont raise your voice or stray from my side".......

nuff said??

[Amorpheous]

Btw, I shot out my dad's truck windows with a BB gun when I was about 11, and it came down to lack of foresight and common sense, like most kids that age lack. Its a fact of intellectual developement that most younger humans dont have the thought capacity of mature adults.
Missing the Point, I highly doubt that your dad's VW Jetta is the only car in the world with the Audi 1.8T engine in it. After all, Audi manufactured it for another model line, therefore, the Jetta is not the *only* car in the *world* with that engine http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Amorpheous (edited 03-14-2000).]

[wyvrn]

Iv'e watched 40 years of liberalism doom our society

Please get off of the fire and brimstone stool for a minute. This kind of talk is not going to solve anything, it just works normally rational people into frenzies. Back your statements up with facts and offer some solutions if you want to be helpful.

I did a *lot* of boneheaded things when I was young. I broke windows, shot my bb gun at street lights, smoked bamboo sticks, played with firecrackers, etc. etc. I think that was just being a kid. I think most kids do very stupid things because they are "little adults" and this is part of the learning process. Some will not, their maturity is beyond their age, but for the most part children lack the maturity of adults, hence the name "child". I grew out of this phase, and I say it was a phase because I was a well disciplined (read: spanked) child who just defied authority for a time. I was also an honor student from the time I entered school until gradutating high school, and am a productive member of society with an IT job, who volunteers, is getting married, believes in God, and works in the community type of person. I believe that good begets good, so if you want your children to grow up responsibly and as a productive member of society, then give them that example. It is so hard to parent for others, you can legislate all you want but some people are just not meant to be.... But if you lead your children down the right path, then they will follow.

I cannot believe a story about someone using a bb gun on a car window has brought about doom and gloom talk. Sheesh people, go back to watching your soap operas/Jerry Springer and spare us the depressing talk.

[Underclocked]

I'm glad a few of us can remember our ornery days of youth. BUT, I generally agree with those that say there is a desperate lack of dicipline today. Surely the answer lays somewhere between the extremes, but society/parents are too far to the left just now.
The pendulum swings, again and again.

[Dominus]

Interesting point: Someone managed to tear off and steal a pay-phone off a concrete wall today at our school. Not sure how they managed to do it; it was bolted on with half-inch bolts, and must've weighed a couple hundred pounds. But the thing is, is that it was stolen, and someone had the gaul to do it during a school day with over 1000 students in school.

And only for some quarters too.

[alpha]

I agree with missing the point - it's the upbringing. My friend couldn't get a computer to work (because he's thick) so he thought it would be fun to ground out the ram with a screwdriver.

[narayan]

LOL alpha!

[bdunn]

People need God. If more folks went to prayer in their respective houses of worship, synagogue, church, mosque, temple their would be fewer problems.

I go to synagogue and send my kids to a jewish school. I hear that Catholic school students are also more self-disciplined.

Faith is a necessary component of parenting

[Dominus]

I don't think people need a God. But I won't say anything against someone who wants to believe in one. I'll fight for someone's right to believe in what they want. Just don't try to force me to believe in something I don't want to.

I support Christianity, and any other Faith, as long as what they practice doesn't infringe on me.

I cannot say anything about Jewish schools, as I have never been to one, but I attended Catholic school for 5 years, and believe you me, the students there are just as bad, if not worse than anywhere else. During my short time there, 3 teachers had nervous breakdowns and quit (it wasn't me! I swear! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif), several fires were set by students, and fights were a daily occurance.

Just saying, Religion in schools do not necessarily make them better.

Didn't mean to insult anyone with this post, and I am truly sorry if I did.

[neo_otyugh]

as with anything else in the US i think this is just another situation where there is no sense of personal responsability. hopefully the kids parents will use this as an opportunity to tech him how to be responsible...its too bad that such a great car had to be damaged though...

[methane]

This is sooo weird. While I was trying to think up an idea for an article to put in the school paper today, I decided to write a satirical article on the disrespect and greif children give their parents. Alright, It was alittle extreme, ie Clinton announcing the opening of IMT's (Institutions for Malicious Toddlers) the director of which was monica lewinsky, sharing with the paper some of her favorite punishing devices (I think it was a cat-skin whip). Children under the age of five forming secretive underground sects because parents would try and force them into their pushchairs. Parents living in fear that their toddlers would sue for large amounts of toys and restraining orders etc..
Is ne one interested in seeing it I would put it on the page it is alright with soc.

Methane

[Dominus]

ignore this post
my mistake

[This message has been edited by Dominus (edited 03-14-2000).]

[Dash]

Im 14 and I also know how kids act, and what annoyed me was, not pointing the finger, but a couple people said that thats what kids do, you cant blame it on growing up, I can remember 2 times breaking a window, one iwth a golf ball on accident, another with a baseball at a friends house, on accident (ugh THAT was an ugly situation), but if parents put more effort into teaching kids values, maybe breaking windows WOULDNT be what kids do...., catch my drift? =), Ive never felt the urge to go break my neighbors window for no reason...

[oblivion]

So some of you are contending that kids only act like kids because of a "lack of proper parenting" L M A O.......
that is an utter crock of festering dog poop.


I am facinated by the ignorance of some of you people.

[alpha]

I'm 13 and I think that it's a combination of the parenting and the socal circle.

[Dash]

Oh cmon, its my oppinion and I'll keep it if I want to, but kids dont just act likes jerks because they are growing up.

-edit
Yeah alpha your right, its a combination, I still believe its more of how your raised, if your raised to be a "good" kid, then you wont hang aroundw ith "bad" kids, etc

[This message has been edited by Dash (edited 03-14-2000).]

[Faramir]

I think it starts from the parents--but the government has alot to do with it. They promise you help for everything and this makes people less accoutable and more dependant. People fail to see this and keep on voting for the polititians who promise more. It also doesn't help when our leaders commit serious crimes and are let off the hook and even defended. Even when we teach our kids right from wrong there are other parents who don't care and the kids see this double standard. And those who do care are afraid to punish their kids out of fear they will be accused of abuse (yes there are some who think spanking is abuse). I believe its the parents responsability to raise their kids, not the village.

[chipbgt]

Oblivion, chalk it up to a different kind of ignorance, but what are you talking about? explain a little better.

[pickel]

Oblivion: I cannot comprehend your "facination"..not being ignorant myself... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif

Sorry about your ride, http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif Dr. Vette. When the kid ran the light and totaled my 1970 Monte Carlo SS454,I was sick for months. Luckily ,I found my El Camino and did a MAJOR transplant. Original Turbo 400..pushing 300,000 mi and still purrin'.If you need help locating some glass, give a holler!!!

the pickel



[This message has been edited by pickel (edited 03-14-2000).]

[brandon184]

I'm a 14 year old guy from mid-western Canada. I hope the kid next door gets some kind of punishment..

I also hope (and strongly disagree if you do) that you not pay a dime for any repairs and/or replacements that need to take place.

I consider myself to be very mature for 14. I have never broken the law, and never will. Something that makes me just livid.. Is seeing a kid who will get in trouble for a decision HE/SHE MADE, then when being confronted about it, do not even say anything about it. They get a blank look on their face. They say they will never do it again.. Guess what happens next month? Something the same, or just as bad.. Maybe even worse.

I like to see that lately more and more kids are being tried (Spelling) as adults for crimes they commit. I also don't like seeing parents who stick up for their kid who gets into trouble. Most of the kids that are like this are kids who are spoiled rotten, and get everything they want.

Everyone makes mistakes during life.. Thats how the human race lives. Make a mistake - Learn from it. But kids now-a-days make mistakes.. But don't learn from them. And that is exactly what is wrong with our society.

Something else I think should take effect, is higher punishment in schools. I was recently talking with a friend of mine about how our school, and basically every other school's punishment system works.

If you decide to get in trouble, you get a study hall.. It is a basic thing. You do something, the teacher tells you that you have a study hall, and you go after to a class after school to sit there and do your work.. To me, that is not a punishment.

My parents told me that when they were kids, if you were "bad", you were in PAIN. You would go the principal's office, and you would come back in pain. I honestly think pain is a better way to learn your lesson, then sitting in a class after school, doing work.

At these schools, you if you do something very wrong, you often get a suspension. If you get an in-school suspension, you sit in the office all day, doing work.. I don't see how this is a punishment.. It is a good way to catch up on your work.. Which is a good thing.. An out of school suspension is good for the kids who's parents don't mind if they get in trouble, since they just go home and watch tv all day, while their parents are at work.

For the kids who's parents get mad when their kid gets in trouble, they don't want to get a suspension, which means they avoid it.. By.. You guessed it.. Not getting in trouble. Whether its in school or out of school, on the weekend.

I'm sure some of the teachers at this school, would just love to lay a beating on some of these kids, who are just constantly doing things they shouldn't... Just to teach them a lesson.. Sometimes I see how frustrating it is when a teacher says "Billy, Please leave the room." and "Billy" says "No." .. ALL the teacher can do, is just ask again. They can't use force. They can't physically punish the student.

I honestly do not know, why someone my age, or any age for the matter would want to get themselves punished. There is no big excitment from it.

I've also noticed lately, that the kids who are constantly getting themselves in trouble, are the kids who everyone kind of stays away from. Because, if you are with that kid, everyone else assumes you are like them.

Overall, it is a combination of many different things (as Alpha said.) which can be anything from parenting, peers, teachers to the kind of neighborhood they live in.

And thats all I have to say about that.

Anyone who disagrees with me, feel free to email me at tooke1@sk.sympatico.ca, and I'd be more than happy to discuss the issue with you.

- Brandon

[This message has been edited by brandon184 (edited 03-14-2000).]

[R[][]FER]

I don't think people need to believe in God to bring up their children properly in this world.
I think they need common sense and patience to instill things in their children.
I also don't think faith has anything to do with it. If the parents know what respect means, they teach this to their kids...Period.
Maybe, if they can't think for themselves, then they can try as you say but if they truly believe in common sense and respect for others, then it will work if it is implimented properly and they take the time to do it.

[Underclocked]

oblivion, it's true, it's true. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

Everything a kid does (even after they are "grown") is the fault of someone else.
Someone else's shortcomings, someone else's misbehavior, someone else's sumpin! Why, kids have no minds of their own. No thoughts from their own being (hmmm, maybe).
They should just make the child observe while the parents are being caned for the child's behavior (hmmm, maybe).
People are individuals from a very early point in their lives. The bleeding heart would say that a person does horrible things because of that person's terrible upbringing and formidable environment. That might hold water if his brother hadn't turned out so well, or if the equally deprived neighbor girl hadn't turned out so well. And that's not to say that I would totally discount the effects of a bad situation, I just don't see it as a reason or excuse.
Quit looking for reasons to excuse and start punishing the offenders.

But, let's try not go to go overboard in either direction. Kids gotta be kids, no matter how old they are. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[R[][]FER]

Brandon...
Good points!
But you see it alot differently than those other ones that just don't care or just couldn't be bothered.
Please don't change, as you are on the right track in life and it will pay off as you grow older everyday. And you will feel proud about yourself, as you know you have done the right thing and you will respect yourself more.

[oblivion]

I am saying that just because a person(meaning individual)makes some mistakes and bad choices in life,does not mean that he bad parents,or a horrible upbringing.......I mean we are not drones,neither are kids,kids are very imaginitive and creative,and I assure you can contrive of many off the wall things be they good or bad......and it does not have to have any thing to do with thier parents..


The local preacher,had 4 kids.....2 boys to girls......well 2 of them were pretty bad,the one son was a jerk,he used to beat kids up and harass everyone,lie,destroy properties ect......one of the daughters was a shameless trollop that would sleep with anyone in town and cause all kinds of trouble
she was quite scandelous..........now the one boy is in jail for stealing cars locally,and the girl has a crapload of kids,and a different boyfriend every week.

The other two,the one girl was always a model student,and participated in the girl scouts....and volunteered at the nursing home,and now she is married and a missionary in cameroon,she is helping people out alot,and she herself is a great person(a bit uptight if you ask me,but she really means well) The other son,is now a doctor,he has a nice practice,and he even helps people out who do not have alot of money in the way of greatly discounted services...........

The preacher and his wife are very fine upstanding accomplished people,and I know for a fact that they raised thier kids the best they could,with love and respect,teaching honor and god...........but people have thier own minds.......(thank god)
and do not necessarily become a product of thier parents,rather then thier own mind.

perspective

If you were to ask the 4 children of the preacher why they tunned out the way they did,I am sure you would get quite different answers.

I bet the sucsessful ones would attribute everything to a kind and loving set of christian parents.

While the other two(maybe not unsucsessful)would likely go on and tell you how relegion was stuffed down thier throat from day one,and how they lead the strictist prohibiting life,and how they felt oppresed.

And niether of them would be wrong,in fact they would all be right.

Why? Because people are different

A thought
Personality is very strong,and while partially being developed from parents and surrounding,it is also developed from individuality that is unique to every one,so even if you have lead a most pious life,and have raised your children in the most respectful manner,they will still have an individuality that is developed from within themselves,that may or may not be akin to the manner in which they were raised.
This is why a child raised by evil parents may very well turn out to be a saint,and this also why children raised by saints can well turn out to be evil.

another thought
For all the christian people who are saying that a child that is raised well can only turn out good and a child will only do wrong if raised wrong,think about this.

Lucifer was a child of god and he turned quite evil(according to the bible),did not the lord show him the proper ways???????

Or did he just have a bit of personality that was his own?

Just think about it........the only reason I even mentioned ignorance is because some of you were acting like that this kid must have bad parents and a bad upbringing,but all I am saying is that he was just being a silly,ignorant child acting on the trappings of his own mind.(well his parents may not be up to par,but you know what I am saying right?)


edit-fixed spelling



[This message has been edited by oblivion (edited 03-14-2000).]

[Amorpheous]

I think part of the problem lies in the fact that most Americans expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter and that we are the so-called "greatest" country in the world. In some countries you get your hands chopped off for stealing, here you can get away with a slap on the wrist.

[alpha]

Narayan; It's true http://www.sysopt.com/forum/redface.gif!! It really annoyed me, beacause I was going to buy the machine from him, but he shorted out the memory bus controller!!

[Faramir]

oblivion--- what a crock... we all know that not every loving family produces great kids and vice versa. There are always exceptions to the rule on any subject.

[StarWatcher]

Sorry to hear about that Richard. I know how it feels. A 15 year old neighborhood kid got drunk 1 night with his friends and they decided to roam the neighborhood with some cans of spray paint and *decorate* my car. Now I pretty quickly found out who did it and I went and talked to his dad. His dad refused to admit his son was responsible. I guess he was afraid I was going to press criminal charges or call the police. So I finally said ,look I have no intention of calling the police or sueing you, I have a son of my own and I know that kids do dumb things, I simply want your son to apologize to me and remove the spray paint off my car with rubbing compound. It will teach him a lesson and also my own son and and the other neighborhood kids. Well his dad refused to have his son do that. And it was a shame because this kid has since graduated to getting in trouble with the police. Apparently no one has ever held him accountable for his actions.

Ok I have one more thing to say. Vandalism by teenage boys is not a problem of *today's kids*. It has been going on as long as teenage boys have been in existance http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif And if you think back to your own young teenage years, you will realize this is true. I think the difference today is that alot of parents are afraid to let their kids suffer the consequences of their actions. Ok I'm off the soapbox now.

You didn't say how approachable this kid's fathers was to having his son apologize and make ammends to you. I would pursue this with the kid's dad.

[socalgal]

Faramir, seems to me that's exactly what Oblivion implied in his A Thought... http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif

[Faramir]

socalgal---yes... I did read that--my point is that those are EXCEPTIONS. You can not teach someone ( a child maybe?) by saying "Do this" "Don't do that" and not living what you teach. Like oblivion says - every person has their own mind but by being consistent in what you teach so that they will live it, doing the right thing when no one is around (even though you have your own mind-thank God). I'm not very articulate so I hope you understand what I mean.

[wyvrn]

In my case the one of the reasons I did not act responsibly while young was because I had no father growing up. That is not an excuse. I was home all day by myself while my mother worked. I believe too many children are growing up without fathers today. This will produce more and more unruliness in children. Every home needs two parents to work together, and fathers to dole out discipline because they do it best http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif.

But my point was that just because the kids can make mistakes does not guarantee them to grow up rotten. I turned out well, probably because of the sheer will of my mother, and because I finally took responsibility for myself. I had other male role models to turn to. However, some kids do not have that luxury.

[This message has been edited by wyvrn (edited 03-15-2000).]

[jeana]

"...fathers to dole out discipline because they do it best http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif"

wyvrn baby, you ain't met my mom! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif
She's never laid a finger on any of her kids (at least not that we can remember: maybe we were spanked as toddlers?) but she can break us if necessary.

Think I see what Faramir means... we all know exceptions to the rule that good parents have good kids, and of course the same approaches won't work the same on all children. But in general you can assume that being a good parent will make it more PROBABLE that you'll have good kids. Part of good parenting is being able to give your kids lots of love, attention, discipline, and tolerance... and also having both the flexibility to learn from your mistakes and the rigidity to hold your kids to some standard of behaviour. I believe this standard should boil down to consideration for other people in all one's actions, and all the rest, like good grades, are frosting on the cake.

[This message has been edited by jeana (edited 03-15-2000).]

[oblivion]

Well of course having good parents will make you more likely to turn out good....I never contested that,I was just upset by poeple insinuating that just becasue a kid did something bad,or made a mistake that he must have had bad parents,in fact I am quite sure that all kids do bad things in thier life regardless of parentage.........

I was only furthermore saying that becasue this kid did break the window,makes him not bad,or his parents bad,but rather ratifies his immaturity,and cements his the fact that he is but a child.........I am not going to acuse his parents of being a bad influence on him,just because he did a thing that is akin to the things children do,after all he is a child,and he will learn.

[pickel]

Wall to wall counseling for the kid !!!!! www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4214/wall.html (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4214/wall.html)


the pickel

[This message has been edited by pickel (edited 03-15-2000).]

[brandon184]

Thanks for the compliment, R[][]FER!

My behaviour, my values and my respect, I got from the way I was brought up by my parents.

I honestly do not think I could change from being like I am today, and being someone who breaks the law, is disrespectful and has no values whatsoever. I wouldn't be able to stand thinking that people thought I was a bad guy.

Thanx..

- Brandon

[oblivion]

I just couldn't stand being a bad guy.......
I do not really care what others think.

[Faramir]

In my opinion any kid who deliberately destroys property IS bad.... but all hope for him isn't lost, reparations and an apology will go a long way towards redeeming himself. It would be quite some time before he could earn the trust he had with his parents and his neighbors (and a LONG time before he would get his BB gun back)

[oblivion]

So any child that makes a mistake is bad.....


L
M
A
O

[Faramir]

you can laugh all you want-- making a mistake is how we learn but when a kid destroys property deliberately--yes thats bad. I guess for some people anything short of taking a gun to school is just a mistake--even then it's not their fault it's societies fault. oblivion I guess we just draw the line in different places.

[Richard_Cranium72]

I appreciate all the support. The responsibility for ones actions reside wholly within that person. By the time a person learns a language they percieve the difference between right and wrong. Parental support is indeed a major factor.. Some without strong guidance develop disrespect, fatalistic attitudes and some contract "The Angry Young Man's Syndrome" . I've buried a beautiful young woman who lacked proper father figure support.. The Monza will live again, I pray that our youth becomes more aware that life is worth living to its multifaceted max.. ,, thank you all ... DrVette

[This message has been edited by Richard_Cranium72 (edited 03-16-2000).]

[brandon184]

Oblivion -- Is there a problem?

You seem to be not too impressed by any of my posts.

[Mr Twobit]

Maybe he found out who 'Richard Cranium' really is! LOL

Seriously, though, It makes me think back to the stupid things I did when I was young and dumb.

[Richard_Cranium72]

If we cannot share differences of opinions without becoming hostile, then we are all "JUVENILE" regardless of age. Respecting other thought processes(customs) is the minimum in acceptable behavior in public forums.

[oblivion]

To all......there is not a problem,and I do not feel the slightest bit of hostility toward anyone,I am sorry if anyone got those impressions from my posts......I do feel strongly about kids though(in the respect that all kids do bad things,and just because a kid does a bad thing does not make them,or their parents bad)and how they are viewed thats all.

[oblivion]

How old are you Faramir? I am guessing young.

It is a bad thing to do,I agree,I am saying just becasue a person does a bad thing it does not make them bad,especially with children,because there are many things they can only learn on their own,regardless of how they were taught,you can learn everything half-*** from someone elses experience,but to really learn you have to experience it in one way or another yourself,
or you don't really know,you just have an idea,be it right or wrong.


[This message has been edited by oblivion (edited 03-16-2000).]