Starting an IT career- Advice Please

[danb4]

I am looking for advice folks, and this forum has been such a great source on so
many things, I thought I'd try this topic
as well.

I am a college grad who has been using computers for a while, I've built a few, and am fairly competent at most tasks. I'm also a quick learner, and very interested in the field, so learning new things isn't a problem.

I am looking to start an IT career, I've been in Seminary for the last couple years and have concluded that I am not going to pursue the ministry.

I'm in Philadelphia, so the job market is great, there are plenty of hi-tech companies hiring, and the pay is good.

Here is my problem: I have no on the job experience. My resume looks good, not much room to improve on it(given my current lack of experience)........but I'm just not getting much response, and what I have gotten has said "your skills don't match what we are looking for"

Lately I have been really getting into Web site design and building, I like creating things, but I'm not an artist, and I don't know if I can cut it on that end of things.
(my wife is constantly telling me "that doesn't match, change your clothes please")
But I've been playing with HTML, CSS, Macromedia Flash, and just getting into Javascript at more than the "plug in this nifty script" level.

I need to get decent job fairly quickly as we have a child on the way.

I have concluded that my best strategy may be to get an A+ certification, I"m studying for it right now. I want to get my foot in the door somewhere, and then exploit their training opportunities, and move up, or move on as better opportuinities come along.

Questions:
1) How does the A+ exam compare ( in difficulty) to the practice tests that are everywhere? can you recommend the best resources online for it. (it's $165..I don't want to have to retake it)
2) Am I correct in assuming that A+ certification is my best bet for getting something on my resume that will get me that first job?
3) Do you have any suggestions for what direction I should take? Any different certifications? (I have a video set for MCSE NT Server I need to do)
4) Anything else I should know?

5) If about 600 of you would sign up for various pay to surf scams, then I'll just stay at home and get paid to waste time on the net........ok, maybe I better stick to the above plan...8+}

6) I do have some knack for programming, I was always the first person done in the various classes I took up thru high school (Pascal for example) But, that was a long time ago, and I don't know much of anything about marketable languages.

7) As you can see, I need to not only get a job, but I also need to figure out what niche I want to be in. The former is more important than the latter. Any suggestion on figuring out what to do long term?

Thank you for reading this long post, and I appreciate all your input.

........Do you think there are any jobs in overclocking CPUs? What about Quake 2 or 3 playing jobs? Dang...I wish i had some useful skills........LOL

Underemployed in Philadelphia,
Dan

[ktwebb]

A+ will help you get a hardware tech job. Pay will be low, even with experience compared to other IT fields. (Networking, Programming), but it will get you in the door somewhere. I am in the deep south, and you could expect about 30k plus or minus 2 or 3 grand depending on the need. I am sure your area is well above that, at least I would hope. Cost of living and all. From there, the MSCE track is something to look at. A quick view of the classifieds or Job hunt websites could get a few people excited about getting MCSE certified. It is the path I have chosen. (2 more to go). I know Jack about programming but there is definitely money down that road also. I found the A+ to be pretty easy, and I had about as much experience as you, none, and with zero college. Just playing with my PC at home,and a couple of months on the job for a wireless network company. I studied some software my company bought for about 3 weeks and past the test fairly easily.

[wyvrn]

If you do decide to go the MCSE route, go to www.mcseguide.com (http://www.mcseguide.com) and read up on the forums and the braindumps. Also, cramsession.com is a good site. Beware that very few will take you with an MCSE and no experience. You will most likely want to start at an ISP in a call center (I found one that required no experience) or a local electronics store doing troubleshooting. ANY experience is better than none. If you decide to go the web page route, most of my friends just programmed a couple of their own pages and then put them on their resume to get their first job. In the meantime, they took whatever technical position they could find (ISP) and two of them did the ISP tech support page for practice. Basically, I think it is fair to say you are going to have to start on the "floor" level and work your way up, but with patience and a willingness to learn it can be done. A+ is a good cert from what I hear, however in the time and expense it takes you to do that you could have your first 2 MCSE track tests done. It just depends on where you want to go with your career. Good luck!

[Thor]

Hi danb4

As you don't know exactly what you want to do
then I reckon that you try to get a job on
a helpdesk any IT helpdesk as that is the quickest way to learn and give you an overview over in what kind a direction you would like to go in. As well as you will get a good training from that company as well.

I for ones started on the helpdesk and I
have to say that it was one of the best
thing I have done in my live you will learn
a lot of things and also how to communicate as communication is really a BIG issue not only how much you know about computers.
Now in my company I travel a lot and what stands out for me is the skills I learned on the helpdesk. While you are working there you are faced with so many problems and how you learn to deal with it will also help you later on in the IT field.
(quick thinking + solutions = quality work)

As well as working in the helpdesk field you should be able to pick up what you want to do, don't try to go for the big things not just yet give it a time. As you said your self you don't know what direction you want to go in a helpdesk is a really a good place to start, it gives you a very good overview over what is going on in the IT today,
and from there you will grow into what you want to be/learn.

An A+ is really a good thing to start with, and that should really give your carrier a kick as well.

Here are 2 links to a very good sites for A+
http://www.enol.com/~bellows/index2.htm
http://www.freepractice.com/

Good luck whatever way you will choose. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

Thor

[smurfin]

Network...MCSE is the way to go, don't go to classes, just buy a couple of newriders books and the exam cram guide. Get on the question mail lists...Cramsession, etc. Study for 6 months or so and take a test, workstation or server first so you can be MCP. For the future, you want big $? database administration, not programming. Had offers in the 75-80 range, with two months experience. Money isn't anything compared to family however, so I will stay right where I am at making a little more than 60% of that amt. Study hard, have confidence, and you can kick some test ****.

[welsh wizard]

You will find that most off the A+ test papers you can practice on are the same level as that you would take if it were for real,
the most important thing is keep applying for those jobs, the law of average is then on your side, in the mean time the more bit's of paper the better, A+, MSCE all help, but this can also depend on the person hiring, some consider it very important, others don't seem to worry, but it all helps to either show you are commited, or are determined to pursue your chosen pay.

Good luck and just keep punching away at it.
WW

[neo_otyugh]

if you get the MCSE make sure you know what the hell you are doing...seen several MCSE certifieds that were attempting to install WinNT on to a FAT 32 or linux partition...little things like that...having the certifications and no experience might not get you anything. the suggestion that you try for helpdesk or tech support is a good one. my brother spent almost a year in a call center, got into field tech work and now is a senior network admin in san jose, making $70,000 a year, with no college...it took him about 5 years to get that far...

[BC]

Yeah and if you find it hard pressed then you could always volenteer at a church school something to get some experence. Smurf some of us don't have 6 months to blow to take the 1st of 6 tests. Besides by next year you will need to upgrade to w2k.

[RobRich]

MSCE is a great start to a good computer related job. The A+ is something I would recommend, but it's not going to get you a high paying job. Like stated earlier, it might earn you 25-35K a year, but with a MSCE and some actual knowledge, you can earn 50K or more.

Also, if your interested in specialization in networking (extremely good money, 100K+ very possible), then you might also consider taking the Novell Certified Network Engineer certification. It is extremely detailed and technical, but it can provide you with an extremely good job.

I guess I'll find out in the next couple of years. I'm currently finishing up my AAS degree in Mathmatics (Scientific Application Development), and plan to take my A+ and all parts of the MSCE this summer. Then the big debate is whether to go for my BS degree (wait a minute, I've already got many practical years experience in BS!! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif ).

Robert Richmond

[Axel]

I have to totally agree with Thor - get on at a helpdesk - the absolute best training groups are ISP helpdesk call centers - but beware - if you get frustrated easily - then it's not for you ..... ISP's offer extremely little training - most o fit happens on the phone helping people through their "OPF"'s - {organic peripheral fault - "miss - the problem is between the chair & the keyboard - nothin' I can do from here}

I worked for an out-sourcer for both MSN and Compuserve for 2 years - best on the job training I ever got. Solving the problems people have with their systems over the phone teaches you communication and trouble-shooting like nothing else. - Can be fun if you let it - but it ain't for everyone.

While there - they may pay for your MCSE and/or A+ training -

You are at the "pay your dues" portion of your IT career - pay it, and move on discovering what you want to support - or if you want to get into programming & design.

Warning - IT folks work weird hours and miss things like new years eve and saturday nights out with the friends at the movies - you're typically doing software upgrades and back-up tapes when most of your friends are watching hockey and drinking beer....... so give this career choice careful thought.

Otherwise, I love it - it's much better than managing people. At least systems are a bit more predictible than people's emotions - though some days some systems are tempermental.......

Axel

[danb4]

Thanks for all your help, right now I'm just trying to get interviews, and I'm hoping the A+ will help with that.

Gonna take it next week, the next few days are pretty much dedicated to studying for it.

Either I'm a fool, or it doesn't look too hard. (or perhaps I am a fool....regardless, it doesn't look hard).

I owned a car stereo shop for a year, and did installs and stuff, I don't mind that kind of work. (hardware/setup/troubleshooting)

But I don't think I want to stay in hardware/troubleshooting for too long. It will give me the opportunity to figure out what I like.

As to the incompetant MCSEs part.......hehe.....what does that position pay? I'd be willing to start in one of those, and move up to "competant MCSE" over time. But only if it paid better....8+}


I'll keep you guys posted on how the job hunt goes.

[U-96]

Don't rule your current skillset out either - I'm guessing that your Seminary training will have given you an edge on your personal communication skills that a lot of hardcore techies sometimes lack http://www.sysopt.com/forum/wink.gif
If you can demonstrate the capacity to LISTEN to clients, your worth to an employer is greatly enhanced...
Also, don't rule out working for a non-profit organisation (as I do) - many of them need IT-literate people but can't attract the cream because they can't justify paying the salaries. You may not get as much as a commercial job, but if you desire to continue with a social/ethical element in your career, it's a good way to mix it with IT...

U-96

[CMonster]

No matter what your final IT destination you can't go wrong with A+ - it is a good stepping stone and will help you diagnose more complex problems. As for the value of A+ on a resume - don't count on it. Many perspective employers don't even know what the A+ is - they'll think it's a grade on your final or something.

This is my self study track (and I am a slow-learning middle age ****): A+ (done), Network+ (doing), MCSE ( http://www.sysopt.com/forum/frown.gif do I have to do this?), a few classes, couple years part or full time in entry level/ assistant Network Administration while keeping my current job with city of LA. Finally (if I don't die first - and then the seminary might be more helpful), Apply to LA city's IT or Comunications group....

retire, die, and then realize that only 1 second has gone by...

"Every idle word that a man shall speak he shall give account of on the day of judgement" - Jesus

Surely I will need an accountant! - George AKA CMonster

[new2]

Help desk is a good route to go. That's where I started. Help desk for 2 software companies on unix (many flavors) and NT. Learned a lot and progressed through the levels. If it is a complex product you will learn some network admin, communications and maybe some database stuff. Then you can see what you truly like to do. I just moved into the development DBA arena, and am having a lot of fun. I visit this site because I am a hardward PC dummy. ( but always willing to learn). In big companies, other people take care of the hardware, so the only way to have any skill is to do it on your own.

Good Luck!

[Nathan]

This can be a tough business to get into. You can have a lot of certs, but with no experience that they can check on, it's tough. But here are some ideas for you.

1. Volunteer if you have to, at day care centers, colleges, local businesses, etc. There are businesses out there that can use someone like yourself at entry level. Show up on time, do what you say you are going to do, and when you can't show up, tell them that. It shows responsibility, a key factor missing in some of today's workers. Also, some businesses might hire you after they see what you can do.

2. Be patient. I know you're under the gun with your family growing. You may have to get a different job until you can gain enough outside experience in computers to where businesses will want to hire you.

3. Try consulting. You charge them an hourly or a flat rate to do this or that. That way if you can do the job, they get their project done and you can earn money as you gain the experience.

I didn't start out at the help desk, though I do some of those duties now. I'm on the hardware side of it. I always describe myself as "I'm the guy who keeps your PC working! There isn't anything you can do to that PC that I can't fix, one way or another." While it's a little frustrating not having the experience, believe me, you'll need it when you are under the gun. Just like when the VP or President of the company calls and says "Hey Nathan, I've got a problem here and ...." Sometimes it takes all your experience to remember what causes this or that or what was the fix for that again. And the techs on this site know what I'm talking about. I'm sure they have their own stories to tell too. Anyway, that's why companies are a little shy on hiring someone who's experience can't be checked out.

There's going to be some sacrifices on your part in order to get into this field. And your wife may not want this at this point in your lifes. However, if you can survive the hard times like this, then you can probably get what you are looking for.

[This message has been edited by Nathan (edited 03-05-2000).]

[dsb63]

danb,

I agree with the help desk advice. After about 10 years in office machine repair, and attempts to break into software support in Southern CA, I finally got hired in at a software firm in central CA. I Love it! I've learned about some networking topics and more importantly Oracle databases. Although I could move on I don't want to leave the area and there's not much else high tech around here. Besides, I love my job too much. The people are great too. Is this a commercial?? Well, perhaps. We're hiring for a software trainer, which the position could be based on the east coast or midwest. I'm sure there will be support positions available as well in the future, but might require relocating. Check us out at www.iqms.com (http://www.iqms.com)

What Seminary did you attend? http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[smurfin]

CB, I did not mean full time studying for 6 months. At the time I was a social worker doing 40+hours, then come home and study for a couple of hours. I have worked since I was 14 years old. You have to put labor in to get dividends out. That's all I am saying on the subject. Bill

[smurfin]

Oh did I misspell your name? :-) Sorry....

[danb4]

Well folks, I spammed every staffing service I could find with my resume. Oddly enough, I have an interview at one on Wed for web development stuff. I am supposed to bring my "portfolio." They understand that I have never had a full time position in the field, and that I am working on my first paid site. So now I am frantically trying to fix everything I've made, and also trying to get the website done I'm working on for a small publisher.

Any suggestions on what a "portfolio" should consist of? Do you think the webmaster of Sysopt would let me pretend I made this site?(just to hlep me get started in the field).....LOL.....j/k

I really hope this goes well, I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row

<tr>
<td>all my ducks</td>
</tr>

hehe, that wasn't hard.....

Anyway, I'll keep you guys posted, and if anyone has a favorite web building site, let me know. There are a ton of resources online, I'm just asking for what you think is the best.

And to answer the above question, I am attending Westminster Theological Seminary, only taking one class this semester though.

Thanks again everyone,
Dan

BTW......this post hit the big time.....the Sysopt email. :+} Congratulations everyone.