Matrox G400 anyone?

[neo]

How many people here plan to go with the Matrox G400 for there next 3D graphics card? Anyone have an opinion on this card? I bet most people are going to get a TNT2 Ultra. Just curious!

-neo

[bigslammer]

I'm looking at the matrox but haven't found any benchmarks to compare it with the diamond 770 ultra or the voodoo3. If I see any reviews i'll send them your way.

[kwai]

i'd go for one...IF there was a price drop on them. so maybe when OEM versions start showing up. til then, my voodoo2 will do just fine i think.

[Decklord]

I will go for the G400 Max if I can found a place where they sell it. In fact, I'm in Canada and we don't seems to have it right now. I've seen benchmark of it and it is a little bit better than the Riva TNT. But... the Vodoo 3 3500 is supposed to come soon too...

[socalgal]

I am really looking forward to the G400MAX. 256 dual bus, Dual Head Display, up to 4xAGP, 360 RAMDAC. OpenGL ICD is now supposed to ship in the box. Still unsure about DVD - but I have an email out. That would be the only drawback, but I don't see how they can't have it. Environmental Bumpmapping is supposed to be the best. Go to Sharkey's, www.matroxusers.com, www.matrox.com. There was another late review, but I'm not home and don't have the site.

According to the reviews/benchmarks I've seen, there is some sacrifice of speed vs. image quality. High CPU scaling. More powerful systems needed for the best results.

Supposed to ship in 4-6 weeks, last I heard.

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 06-21-99).]

[neo]

Well scalabilty is great of O/Cers like me!! I've seen all of those reviews, let me know where that last one is if you don't mind. I'm still waning about the E. Bump mapping thing, in 8 months every card out will support it, and possibly only then will you see a large move toward game support. God knows q3arena won't suppot EBM. Matrox better get that ICD working great. The card still lacks in the lower resolutions (fps). Some games only support those lower resolutions. Convince me further socialgal...

-neo

[harddisk]

G400 is a good one, but they come out too late....now every 3D chips manufacturers are strugling in designing their new chips with hardware geometry and transforming for future use....

[socalgal]

www.matroxusers.com/ (http://www.matroxusers.com/)
www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/reviews/video/matrox_g400max/ (http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/reviews/video/matrox_g400max/)
www.firingsquad.com/hardware/g400/default.asp (http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/g400/default.asp)

Like I said, it's not the fastest card in the benchmarks, but it should have unsurpassed image quality, which is mainly what I am interested in. I don't want to be updating again in 6 months, I think this card will hold it's upgradability value for a little while.

I'm sure one minute, not the next. Alot will depend on the softDVD. Then, hardware decoders are better all around. I will have to check more into that subject. And if the matroxuser review is correct, the OpenGL ICD will come with the retail box.

Decisions, decisions...

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 06-22-99).]

[neo]

The Matrox betatesters I know over at MURC swear up and down that the product WILL ship with an OpenGL ICD. As for the softDVD, I'll go and ask over at MURC and see what they say. A few of them have recieved test boards.

-neo

[Bleeding Edge]

If your going to wait 4-6weeks (or maybe longer) and end up puchasing the G400 in mid to late September, I'd get the TNT2 now. At that proposed ship date. The G400 will be over-shadowed by nVidia's next generation NV10 chip in a matter of a weeks (Oct~Nov).

The NV10 will process data like a fully open fire hydrant on a summer's day -very cool. 64~128MB ram. It's own geometry processor, too. It'll do thing's none of these main-stream cards can do now.

Matrox's timing of the release of the G400 is not good. These guys are getting old. Not wise and definitive but old and uncertain. They won't have a replacement for the G400 for awhile. It will be out of date fast.

Go with nVidia. They promise the best.

They deliver.

[This message has been edited by Bleeding Edge (edited 06-22-99).]

[nimrod]

Ive just ordered the G400 max, which im told will be in stock in the next day or so.Ive held off ordering a v3000 and waited for this one. All the benchmarks/reviews ive seen suggest this is the one.( at the moment anyway ). it ships with icd and dvd, and should do the lower resolutions,vesa compliant i understand. anyway we will see when it arrives?

[This message has been edited by nimrod (edited 06-22-99).]

[This message has been edited by nimrod (edited 06-22-99).]

[Bleeding Edge]

Hercules has their Ultra2s shipping as of two weeks ago. This would be the model without TV-out or softDVD. They are selling it direct. Someone here posted that they got theirs.

I would hesitate making image quality an issue. Matrox always had great image quality. One of the best. The TNT/TNT2 image is excellent. The well-developed drivers have made this a non-issue. nVidia constantly tweaks the drivers, as well as the manufacturers of the cards.

So, as far as image comparisons are concerned, it falls into the grayness of splitting hairs!

Having said that, the G400 is still a great choice. But it still stands; it will be over-shadowed by the NV10.

[socalgal]

nimrod ~ who told you they are in - Matrox themselves? Have they given you a definite date?

If I keep waiting, that's all I will be doing. Waiting. I have the Xentor 32mg TNT2 Ultra, with which I had configuration problems. Not my first choice, but I wanted something and there it was and it has the TV-out & xingDVD that I wanted.

It's out of my system right now while I am troubleshooting. It will get reinstalled by the weekend no matter what. Then I'll see what happens. The problems I blame on my errors, not the card.

I'll have to do some checking on the NV10. But dang, there's always going to be something better out "in another few months".

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 06-22-99).]

[Bleeding Edge]

sOcal. That's just the point. Purchase now knowing what is avaliable on the horizon -disposable vidcards!

-edit-

That is why..

[This message has been edited by Bleeding Edge (edited 06-22-99).]

[socalgal]

Disposable at $200-$250 a pop? Well, I could handle that, if I didn't really need/want a new car this year. That's not really an option for me, at least not yet http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 06-22-99).]

[neo]

You gotta be kidding me. The NV10 cards will not be out in 3 months, I can almost guarantee this. MAYBE 5 or 6 months. But then another 5 or 6 months will go by and then the NV20 or the G800's will be out. Are you trying to tell me that the NV10 will be as good as it gets (the end all and say all of graphics cards)? I don't think so. The video card industry is changing so rapidly, you just have to get off the train sometime. For ME the "alleged" difference between the G400MAX and the NV10 is equivalent to the difference between my Millennium II and the G400MAX. Do you see my point? For those of us with voodoo card, or even the earlier TNT cards, waiting is fine. But for some of us now is the time to buy.
Have you seen some of the differences between an embossed BMed screenshot and an environmental BM screenshot on a game that supports it? One word: Unbelievable. More and more games are supporting EBM, too. There, I've sold myself! .....not really, hehe

If they both were out right now, I'd get a G400 hands down. Those Hercules cards aren't the TV out / softDVD, so I'm going to wait for that. I at least want some software included.

-neo

[socalgal]

neo ~ yeps, those of us in the caboose want to ride up front for a change. I have a pretty nice system now, and just invested this morning in 256mg of Mushkin PC100 Cas L 2, 8ns-6ns SDRAM. Why wait? That's why I got the TNT2 Ultra. If I decide it doesn't suit my computer's needs, I can return it.

neo ~ What about the delivery on the G400Max ? Have you heard anything definite?

[Virus]

Here is what I know.

As for availablility in canada.
The G400s were suppost to be in on the 15th there has been a delay of 2 weeks (I think 3). The Asus V3800 Deluxe is out, but the drivers suck grASS. The Ultra V770s will be another week. And the Hercules Ultra. I can't get to our suppliers site right now. But I don't think it was in stock yet.

They are already shipping in Japan and maybe Australia.

The V770 and V3800 are more expensive then the G400MAX. So I don't know why the price is such a big concern.

Some of the G400s will come with Zoran SoftDVD 2 (maybe 3).

It's been two years since I last bought a kick grASS video card and I am not going to wait another year. So I have preordered a G400MAX. I have bought a new celeron and DVD-Rom just for it. And another monitor or 32" TV will be coming next month. http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

[neo]

Socialgal, I wish I did... I wish i did...

Nothing definite here yet, here is a quote from an email I recieved about the G400MAXs from But Now Computers (www.buynowcomputers.com):

"Benjamin, we never received the shipment expected on the 18th. The ETA has
been pushed back to 07/07/99. Sorry about that. Thanks."

sucks, huh? BTW, I'm Ben. hehe

-neo (AKA Benjamin)

[socalgal]

Well, that's typical I guess. Thanks for checking Ben. Sounds like the original time-frame they gave on the Matrox site.

oh, btw, it's socalgal, not socialgal. I'm not necessarily ANTI-social, but that doesn't matter. lol

thanks for the update. Waiting is so hard to doooooo....

[Bleeding Edge]

Neo.
What makes you think I'm "trying to tell me [you] that the NV10 will be as good as it gets (the end all and say all of graphics cards)" Where in the world did you pull this notion from.

There are video cards out right now that far surpass anything Matrox or nVidia have to offer.

"The video card industry is changing so rapidly" That's obvious. Why do you think I suggest they are becoming disposable.

Whether or not the NV10 is out this month or that. I didn't say it would be out in three months. "(Oct.~Nov.) isn't three months from now.

Neo. Your reading into what you want to hear. Not what I wrote. Straighten-up and fly right. Pay attention to what is being read. Not what you wish your hearing.

Socalgal. 'Disposable' as a figure of speech. Yes. "At $200~$250 a pop" that's at the most, less than $1.40 a day. We get are money's worth far before the 6 months period you mention. I'm sure a high school student can come up with a dollar and change everyday for six months.

Christ. Where in the world are you?

[socalgal]

Bleeding Edge ~

My statement was not meant to challenge yours. I was merely stating that for ME, I prefer not to dispose of my vidcards every six months or so. If you so wish, then so do.

I simply prefer to spend my money on other things after I get this machine the way I want it. What I CHOOSE to do with my "$1.40 a day" is what concerns me.

Take it easy, Edge, it's only a different opinion - does it really matter? I think not.



[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 06-22-99).]

[Bleeding Edge]

Christ again! Socal. Ask yourself who's talking about challenges?

You phrased the question "Disposable at $200-$250 a pop?" And I explain my reasoning.

The thought never even enter my mind what you should or shouldn't do with your money. Or anyone's. Why would it?

This is unbelievable!

[socalgal]

nevermind.

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 06-23-99).]

[neo]

Well, since you are keen on the release dates: when will the Hercules Dynamite TNT2 Ultra be out? I haven't even seen an expected release date on this card, and for me it is the only other viable alternative to the G400. The question isn't "do you want TNT2U or G400MAX," the question is "do you want raw speed and overclockability or do you want high image quality and moderate speed?"

-neo

[neo]

Thanks Bleeding Edge, I was hoping you would give me some advice! I've been waiting for someone to set me strait, I'm just glad it was someone as defensive as you... just don't even try socalgal.

-neo

[socalgal]

neo ~ I'm not tempted to.

[socalgal]

Edge. I think you know I have much respect for you. I certainly did take things out of context. I offer no excuses. Please forgive my rashness and misunderstanding.

[neo]

I respect you opinion, too Edge. But if you can't handle a little disagreement then tough. If you think I misinterpreted your statements, then just ignore my comments. This is an open forum for all opinions, not just your own.

-neo

[nimrod]

people do get touchy on this site dont they just. you have to be so careful how you phrase things. ive had a lot of insults due to my written word not really meaning what I meant it to and being misunderstood, people are so defensive as if every comment were a challenge to their intelligence.No slight intended to anyone but its not easy to put it down on the keyboard how you intend it to come out. NUF SAID.!!!!! however Ive ordered the g400max from insight uk, who expect it any day allbeit in very limited quantities, hence my preordering it

[socalgal]

Nimrod, I agree that sometimes it's easy to misinterpret another's meaning, when we have only the written word on which to rely. One doesn't see the other's expressions, and misconceptions can occur, like mine above.

I believe most everyone here is quick to apologize, forgive and get on with the subject at hand - computers! http://www.sysopt.com/forum/smile.gif

I've had an email out since Friday to Matrox, and they have yet to answer me. I inquired about shipping date(s), the softDVD package and OpenGL ICD - which seems to be happening at this point according to what I've read and seen in this post.

(By comparison - re: my online order to Mushkin - I've peppered Kathy in Sales with emails, and she's answered every one of them promptly. Now that's impressive.)



[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 06-23-99).]

[Bleeding Edge]

i'll take my leave. after 869 posts, where i only posted once for help. where the only time i reprimanded anyone was when the person left a link to what amounted as porn. and suddenly i'm labeled defensive by someone who just joined the forum?

how crass is that?

[socalgal]

Edge ~ it is quite.

He doesn't know you. At all.

[This message has been edited by socalgal (edited 06-23-99).]

[Bleeding Edge]

thanks socal..

..i don't think i have the strength to leave you..

[neo]

Sorry about that BE, didn't mean to cause such duress. Accept my apology, you do give sound advice. I have read many of your posts and taken your word under consideration. Here, have a smile :^)

Socalgal, I have one of the matrox beta tester's word that the MAX WILL ship with a softDVD. He said it wouldn't be the "Zoran SoftDVD this time (thank God). This package is MUCH better. Sorry, but that's all I'm allowed to say " [Kruzin]

I am rearing and ready for a MAX. Bout u?


-neo

[Bleeding Edge]

..later socal.

[This message has been edited by Bleeding Edge (edited 06-25-99).]

[Plaster]

Two words Bledding Edge, calm down.

[neo]

Socalgal: Since I know you are interested in the software bundle for the G400MAX, I found this statement

"Montreal, Canada, June 22, 1999 - Matrox Graphics Inc. today announced it will bundle more than $300 worth of free software with the newly announced Matrox Millennium G400 Series. The software bundle includes Micrografx Picture Publisher 8 and Simply 3D™ 3, Expendable™ from Rage Software, the Matrox Software DVD Player and PointCast Network."

Note that Expendable is the cool EBM game to come out. This is supposed to have unbelievable EBM effects that cannot be matched in any other card.

-neo

[socalgal]

Here's the email I received today:

The G400 Max comes with a software DVD decoder. Moreover you can out put to
TV, through RCA and S-VHS. If you require any more information, please do
not hesitate to call us at 1-800-361-1408

George Limberis
1-800 Sales Group Representative

Matrox Graphics Incorporated - MGI
1055 St-Regis Blvd.
Dorval, Qc, Canada, H9P 2T4
E-Mail: glimberi@matrox.com
Telephone: 1-800-361-1408
Telephone: (514) 822-6000 Extension: 7671
Fax: (514) 822-6363
Tech Support: (514) 685-0270

Well, I did ask about the shipping date, guess he kinda ignored that one... well the call is toll free.

I just put the Xentor back in without problems this time. But somehow, it just doesn't thrill me. Maybe I need a new game.

[SteveC]

Hi Guys,
I'm one of those beta testers neo mentioned and would like to backup what has been said about what's in the box.
We were sent the retail box - it came with drivers for win3.x, OS/2, win9x (+ICD) and WinNT 4 (+ICD). Also, Zoran is right out of the picture now.
The G400s (In OEM form at least) are available in various places around the world. Careful though as meany are only Single Headed and wont take the RR-G.

And in respect to the last post (the link to ixbt labs), I suppose 'some skillful guys' just happened to be able to make a circuit board and plonk on the g400 chip, and make some drivers up? Yeah, I don't think! I can't believe there is any truth in it.

Cheers,

Steve

[Kruzin]

Did I hear my name mentioned in here?
Wow, neo...you sure get around!

Well, to clear up the DVD issue, Matrox did announce a couple days ago exactly what software it is (so now I'm allowed to say):

The Matrox Software DVD Player
Offering amazing video quality, this easy-to-use software DVD player is based on the latest technology from Divicore Inc. As such, it supports standard and advanced navigational features that include aspect ratio scaling, full-screen output to TV, slow motion playback and support for Dolby Digital audio. Besides providing full-frame, full-resolution video playback in single monitor mode, the Matrox Software DVD Player has been optimized for Matrox's unique DualHead Display. This allows end-users to take advantage of DualHead DVD Max mode to watch a DVD title full-screen on TV while using their computer monitor to compose email messages or write reports, for example.

Basically it's Cinemaster tuned for the G400, and it's dualhead functions. And it kicks Zoran's sorry **** http://www.sysopt.com/forum/biggrin.gif

That story about some clever guys building their own G400s based on stolen chips is just ridiculous. It's more likely that entire boards where stolen. But I doubt it's even that sinister...most likely some branch in distribution that shipped earlier than they where supposed to...

[neo]

funny seeing all the MURC guys over here...


-neo

[socalgal]

This is interesting... http://www.ixbt-labs.com/